Jake Livermore’s confrontation with West Ham fan

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Jan 3, 2018
    #1

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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  2. Jan 3, 2018
    #2

    Ballache Full Member

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    What a fecking idiot that fan is, I wish he managed to beat the shit out of him.
  3. Jan 3, 2018
    #3

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    Its a pity he didnt land on that creature.
  4. Jan 3, 2018
    #4

    Drawfull Full Member

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    The problem is that these knuckleheads know that 9 times out of 10, the player (or public figure) they're attacking will not retaliate because the potential repercussions for their image are at stake. So we end up with cowards like this who think they're safe to do what they want all the fecking time. Hopefully he gets a lengthy ban from the club.

    Similar happened to Stirling too from a United fan just before Christmas.
  5. Jan 3, 2018
    #5

    the unknown one. Full Member

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    Livermore's behavior is still inexcusable and immature irregardless of the idiocy of the fan.

    Fan should receive life ban.
  6. Jan 3, 2018
    #6

    Randall Flagg Worst of the best

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    Really hard to blame him though in fairness

    If the FA have to charge him because it is the rules I hope they do it in a way were the fine will go to help a childrens charity of the players choice
  7. Jan 3, 2018
    #7

    the unknown one. Full Member

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    Players cannot try to attack people in the crowd no matter what verbal provocation they receive.

    He is in his place of work which makes it even worse.

    Ignore such people so they do not receive the reaction they want.
  8. Jan 3, 2018
    #8

    Bjerring New Member

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    Though violence and retaliation is wrong, it's hard to blame Livermore here. He's had his fair share of problems, and i read he takes every insults regarding his time with drugs on the chin, which i find impressive in terms of self-control. But there has to be drawn a line, and he did, fair play to him, just wish he had made a proper impact. If it had been the case, everyone should have turned a blind eye to it.

    proper c u next tuesday, that "fan"
  9. Jan 3, 2018
    #9

    Abizzz Full Member

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    If what he claims is true I find his behavior excusable. Footballers are humans too, and who of us can honestly say they would have kept a cool head being confronted like that? I don't endorse it (obviously), but I think it's understandable enough...
  10. Jan 3, 2018
    #10

    100 binary bot

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    I wouldn’t call it immature or inexcusable. I think there are very few people that would react in a way that would be deemed appropriate for work if these comments were made. They’re not comments that 99% of people would ever dream of experiencing, to expect a rational response on comments like those is mad.
  11. Jan 3, 2018
    #11

    Laurentiu amt New Member

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    The guy's son passed, who the fek cares that you're at work?

    People should realize, that, after a certain age, verbally abusing someone might get them smacked in the head, no matter that they're on a stadium, at work or in public. There's a limit to insults ffs.

    If you say that he was at work, you can say the same thing about the fan, he was at an entertaining event, why the fek should he abuse someone like that? Get a grip ffs, family comes first, no matter where you are you always defend your own.
  12. Jan 3, 2018
    #12

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

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    I don't know. I think it's hard to truly blame someone for acting on hard-wired instinct when some knobhead brings the death of a family member into the equation. If the guy said something similar to someone on the street, he'd be getting laid out. Somehow footballers are expected to be emotionless robots no matter what abuse is hurled at them, in a situation when they're already loaded up on adrenaline. Livermore will be punished, and he'll probably accept it, but I don't think he'll regret his reaction.

    Football fans shouldn't be in a position where they think they can say and do whatever they want just because a footballer won't respond. Obviously I don't want footballers issuing mob justice en mass, but stewards and security rarely, if ever, do anything about verbal abuse so I don't really blame Livermore to reacting to what was an abhorrent comment to make. IF he hadn't have reacted, nobody would know about it, and the fan will be in the stands again next week. Hopefully the attention it has recieved means the fan gets banned for a long, long time.

    There's banter, jibes and the wanker sign, and then a million miles away from that there's using the death of a family member. Totally unacceptable.
  13. Jan 3, 2018
    #13

    the unknown one. Full Member

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    There is a big difference between keeping a cool head and attempting to attack someone in the crowd.

    A verbal response would have been understandable.
  14. Jan 3, 2018
    #14

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Yeah, I think there’s a point at which no person should be expected to suck up abuse without retaliation. And this is well past that point.
  15. Jan 3, 2018
    #15

    The Purley King Full Member

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    I can understand Livermore's response although its hard to condone it.
    Someone saying something so obscenely hurtful to you could easily flip a switch. Probably for the best he didn't get hold of him otherwise he'd be looking at a lengthy ban. At least if the fan gets life banned that is something.
  16. Jan 3, 2018
    #16

    the unknown one. Full Member

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    Someone who needs they job to provide for their family.

    Livermore is lucky he works as a pro footballer if the average man attacked someone at work they would be fired.
  17. Jan 3, 2018
    #17

    Laurentiu amt New Member

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    That's a nice way to put it, well done. :)
  18. Jan 3, 2018
    #18

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Not necessarily. Any mitigating circumstances would be taken into account. If eye witnesses confirm you were provoked to the extent that Livermore was then there’s a very good chance you’ll keep your job. It’s not as though he put the guy in hospital. He just made an effort to confront the fan, before being held back by people around him.
  19. Jan 3, 2018
    #19

    utdalltheway Sexy Beast

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    Common sense says that if this had happened at a "normal" workplace the guy throwing the insults would have been fired and Livermore let off with a warning and given grief counseling. That is if common sense were common.

    I know if it was me and someone said that, I'd feckin bury the bastard!
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  20. Jan 3, 2018
    #20

    the unknown one. Full Member

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    Its more comparable to attacking a customer than a co-worker, in which case you would be dismissed no matter what was said to you.
  21. Jan 3, 2018
    #21

    izec Full Member

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    Well done Jake, pity he didnt get a proper chance to have 5 minutes on his own with this clown
  22. Jan 3, 2018
    #22

    Abizzz Full Member

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    No true at all. If you're an asset to the company that exceeds the customers worth to the company they'll keep you on. Livermore is just that. If you're a cashier insulting customers it's a different story. (You're essentially worth very little to the company as cashier).
    From what I've seen he only attempted to make his way to said fan and was held back. Maybe he wanted to make sure the guy heard his verbal response? I'm giving him all benefit of the doubt.
  23. Jan 3, 2018
    #23

    FujiVice Full Member

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    If a average man who worked in Sainsburys tried a sliding tackle on another member of staff he'd be fired as well. Your logic is horrendous.

    Stop trying to put yourself in Livermores shoes. You dont know how you would react if some little twat from the crowd said something highly sensitive and uncalled for when you are already full of energy trying play football. It isnt a case of someone walking into a call centre and being mean to you.
  24. Jan 3, 2018
    #24

    Moonwalker Full Member

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    A customer would not know intimate personal information about the employee, which is just one of the reasons something like this doesn't happen outside of a 'famous people/creepy stalker' context. There's no reference in our experience to anything comparable, and 'The customer is always right' isn't really applicable.
  25. Jan 3, 2018
    #25

    Still ill Full Member

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    the unknown one haveing a nightmare here. Livermore will correctly face no sanction here. Maybe my employers are more tolerant than the norm but I would have every confidence that they would take circumstances like these into consideration if I momentarily lost my cool with a fellow employee that had resorted to this level of vileness. Footballers are professionals but punters are beginning, finally, to be held to some sort of standards of behaviour aswell.
  26. Jan 3, 2018
    #26

    Moonwalker Full Member

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    Cashiers are unlikely to be insulted in this way, which renders the analogy pointless.
  27. Jan 3, 2018
    #27

    Maagge enjoys sex, doesn't enjoy women not into ONS

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    It's not like you'd rock up at your workplace, find your boss shagging your missus and just go "Do we still have a meeting at 1? Right, you two enjoy yourselves, see you later then.".
  28. Jan 3, 2018
    #28

    James Peril Full Member

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    Hear hear, the post you responded to is just wildly naive and ridiculous. Livermore has been attacked in the worst possible way and no doubt the FA will take his side.
  29. Jan 3, 2018
    #29

    utdalltheway Sexy Beast

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    He is :lol:. Must not have kids.

    Just because you pay for a match day ticket it shouldn't give you the right to be abusive to someone.
    Normal banter is to be expected but to bring something like the death of a family member; that's well out of order.

    Reminds me a little of the Cantona incident: When asked what the fan had said to cause Cantona to kick out at him he reportedly replied "off you go then young Eric, early shower for you my boy".
    Though other's nearby heard him say "f*** off you French c**t!"
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  30. Jan 3, 2018
    #30

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Looks like he’s got the full backing of his club anyway.
  31. Jan 3, 2018
    #31

    Abizzz Full Member

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    In London or Manchester you might be right, in smaller towns it's not uncommon to know something about the people you deal with on a daily basis. Obviously the analogy isn't perfect, I only made it to illustrate the point you made (the one I now bolded).
  32. Jan 3, 2018
    #32

    2 Girls 1 Midfield Incestuous Modern Woman (Dumper!)

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    Ban the fan for life. Or better yet, put him in a room full of huge blokes who've also lost their children and turn a blind eye to whatever comes next.
  33. Jan 3, 2018
    #33

    utdalltheway Sexy Beast

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    ...."The Club would like to think that all right-minded football supporters could understand this reaction..."

    says enough really.
  34. Jan 3, 2018
    #34

    VBI Full Member

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    Do you not all think you are being a bit too "laddy" with these responses? Of course the fan's comments if true are nauseating and should never be said. But you can't just say "if someone hurts my feelings, I have the right to beat the shit out of them", that's fecking insane. Livermore's circumstances will hopefully be taken into account if there is any action, but if no-one had stopped him, he may have attacked the guy then HE would be the one looking at jail time. That's why professionals can't just respond to things, because they can get out of hand very easily. Hopefully the fan is banned and Livermore doesn't have to deal with anything else.
  35. Jan 3, 2018
    #35

    Mal donaghy Full Member

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    Imagine the furore if it was a united player doing what Livermore did?? While I’m thoroughly in the excusable camp regarding Livermore’s reaction, it does bring to mind the cantona incident and the vitriol our club and player received from press and fans alike, just another example of how we always get the shit end of the stick with the ABUs and press, especially the press with the old “crack” in the badge on the back page.
  36. Jan 3, 2018
    #36

    Moonwalker Full Member

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    Yeah, that's right. I'm a solipsistic city boy and it shows. It's absolutely true that smaller towns are different in that way. However, they are also much less corporate (read:cutthroat) in approach, so if a grocer was insulted on a personal basis and unfairly (never mind on an issue involving dead infants) he'd be very likely to get leeway and sympathy.
  37. Jan 3, 2018
    #37

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    It's not so much people saying he has the "right" to do it, but more a understanding of it. You can take the morally superior and pacifistic point of view all you want (not particularly accusing you of this), but if you've experienced the absolute heartache of losing a child and then some mouth breathing moron pokes fun at you for it, you're going to fecking snap.

    We're human; our emotions take over a lot of the time. Being objective and looking at things and saying "no no, you shouldn't do that" is sometimes a good thing.

    But when it's a situation like this, this line of thinking can be so fecking grating to read.
  38. Jan 3, 2018
    #38

    golden_blunder Dreaming of a return to 4-4-2

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    Thick cnut - the fan that is

    It’s about time people realized that it’s not ok to shout vile abuse at someone just because it’s a football match
  39. Jan 3, 2018
    #39

    VBI Full Member

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    I can completely understand the emotional response. But we live in a society of laws, not feelings. People in here, not connected to the situation, were suggesting actual physical violence on the guy, which to me seems worse or at least on par. The old saying "two wrongs don't make a right" is made for situations like this. Thankfully, the situation was sorted out before it got much worse.
  40. Jan 3, 2018
    #40

    MrPooni Full Member

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    For me a "laddy" response would be a bunch of people posting escalating versions of "Well if it was me I would have done [X] and [X] and then ripped the guys [X] off!" but the responses in this thread largely read like "fair play" which is more about empathy then misplaced machismo. I mean I've had employees who've reacted violently to repeated racial abuse and I didn't feel it necessary to take any action against them because I've been in a similar situation myself, is that laddy?