Jake Livermore’s confrontation with West Ham fan

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Jan 12, 2018

    kr0nix Full Member

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    You've misunderstood what I've said. Rather than criticising you personally, I was actually responding to your criticism of those of us that didn't uphold Livermore's actions as "PC twats". By that reasoning, Gandhi could also be described as a PC twat, as he'd probably share a similar opinion.

    None of this means I support the fan or don't understand why Livermore lost it. It's legitimising physical retaliation to verbal abuse that I have an issue with.

    Thanks for refraining from the Sanskrit chants though. I've had them shoved down my throat ever since I was a child, so I'm not that keen to hear them again.
  2. Jan 12, 2018

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    Just to confirm,no one got beaten up.

    Uncharacteristic but not unheard of. People act out of character given the right set of circumstances. Or conversely, they act within their character;it's just a different facet

    Good to know you knew Gandhi personally.
  3. Jan 12, 2018

    BigCaine New Member

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    Given the fact that Gandhi was a hypocrite who abandoned a successful independence movement because a mob in small town lost control in a skirmish while supporting or rather cheering on Indian soldiers to fight and kill in WW1 for the British i wouldn't quote him.
  4. Jan 12, 2018

    11101 Full Member

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    I think it's fair to assume anyone saying he's in the wrong doesn't have kids.
  5. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    No doubt losing a new born is painful, but this guy has been cleared of confronting a fan (fan is vile no doubt) and been allowed to use class A drugs.

    No matter how much pain you're in you should know the laws and rules, if we're all allowed free passes whenever we get dealt an emotional blow we'd still be in the stone ages.
  6. Jan 12, 2018

    kr0nix Full Member

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    Yes, he also slept naked beside his grand niece to resist temptation. The philosophies that Gandhi espoused are not invalidated by his failure to adhere to them. If I stated that "Killing is wrong" and then proceeded to kill someone it wouldn't invalidate what I'd said, only make me out to be a hypocrite.
  7. Jan 12, 2018

    MalcolmTucker New Member

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    Confronting someone and taking recreational drugs.. this is something that will happen every 5 minutes on high streets up and down the country. Hardly Stone Age behaviour.
  8. Jan 12, 2018

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    Amount of soft twats in this thread makes me wanna puke. Makes me want to read the daily mail. Almost.
  9. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Yeah? That wasn't my point though, but don't let that stop you.

    Confronting people and taking drugs is illegal, will get you locked up, my point was if we're ALLOWED to take drugs and confront people because of our feelings we'd be back in the stone age, Livermore has been allowed to confront someone (not sure if he hit him or whatever) and take drugs.

    I'm in no way condoning the fan who obviously said sometimes vile, but that said fan will get his punishment, lifetime ban probably, which is fair enough punishment.
  10. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    That has crossed my mind.
  11. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    I agree. I'd take anything Gandi said with a pinch of salt.

    :D
  12. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    Its not premeditated though. It's all well and good saying its wrong and its this or that but you really dont know how you would react until it happened to you. Be honest with yourself. I wouldnt know how I would react but I can guess that I would fly into a rage and launch myself at my tormentor. Like Ive said previously. The poor guy most probably has PTSD and the slightest thing can trigger an emotional response. ( I have something similar to PTSD as a result of being alienated from my daughter for long periods of time and its not nice believe me ) Now it will be hard for him in everyday life now if somebody starts mocking you over the root cause of your PTSD and take it into account thats somebody is mocking your dead child its quite natural for him or anybody else to fly into a rage. Iam not saying its right. Iam saying its a natural human emotional response. Ive posted a link on PTSD and anger so people can get a clearer insight.


    https://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/problems/anger-and-trauma.asp
  13. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    Ok.

    Om
    Asatoma Sadgamaya
    Tamasoma Jyotigamaya
    Mitroyma amritam Gamaya

    Om Shanti... shanti... shantiiiiiii

    :angel:
  14. Jan 12, 2018

    BigCaine New Member

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    If we are to take your given scenario it would, if someone on an internet forum used your name to oppose someone who had killed. While the philosophy isn't completely invalidated it rings hollow when the person who espouses it is a hypocrite.
  15. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    I know it's a natural response, I get that he's hurting, but taking actions yourself should be met with punishment, I suffer from severe depression and bipolar, grew up without a father ( a lot of comments on that growing up as a teen etc) lost my mother, but that doesn't give me the right to take drugs (I did) and get away with it if I was caught which Livermore was.

    Don't get me wrong I understand exactly why he responded to that comment, 90% of people would react the same, doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished for breaking the rules, at what point do you stop following the rules because someone has been hard done by? He's been allowed to confront a fan on live TV and take drugs, I'm not sure what type of guy he is, but in his mind he can get away with certain things now, what's stopping him from taking more drugs, drink driving etc because he was depressed and using that as a reason for doing it and thinking he should not be punished?

    A line needs to be drawn no matter the circumstances, the fan will rightfully get punished.
  16. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    Soz to hear about your personal story.

    Iam not arsed if he has taken drugs as Iam not on about that. What Iam saying is this. I can understand why he reacted why he did and most times raw emotions kick in before you have time to think. I may be right in saying he may need some sort of counselling for trauma but get the feeling he may have taken that route. Iam not even giving my energy to the fan as I think we all think the same of him.
  17. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Thanks!

    I agree, I totally understand his reactions, I just don't agree with the fact he's got away with punishment yet again?
  18. Jan 12, 2018

    adexkola American Arse

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    Calling him a great man is an understatement. Same for MLK and others.

    I'm more of a Malcolm X guy myself. The fan will live.
  19. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    No worries.

    If we all realise that behind the keyboard is a person the most probably is dealing with personal issues and treat like we want to be treated .The same for the people we meet in everyday life . The people who make our coffees . The people who serve us food etc... all are most probably dealing with personal issues or pain on some level.

    Just took a work phone call and forgotten my point. :D You get my drift though.
  20. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    I agree wholeheartedly about everything you say, but playing devil's advocate here, what if the West Ham fan has been going through some tough things lately, and decided to inexcusably take his frustration out on a footballer player? Would everyone here absolve said fan as quickly as they have for Livermore?
  21. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    Good point but if that was / is the case then he needs to channel his pain in a different way. Meaning to hurt someone because you are hurting is not the answer. I speak from experience.
  22. Jan 12, 2018

    Raees Sporty Guy

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    I wonder if some of these posters are the type of guys who would ever put up a fight against someone that hurts their nearest and dearest I.e wife or kids or whether they'd find the perpetrators and offer to give them counselling.
  23. Jan 12, 2018

    Ramshock The spacegoats did it Scouse Lover

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    I definitely would have been charged with GBH
  24. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Indeed, I must say old chap it's been a jolly good discussion.
  25. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    It has and its better than the usual my teams better than yours stuff if Iam being honest.
  26. Jan 12, 2018

    yumtum DUX' bumchum

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    Exactly. My team is better than yours though... Ha
  27. Jan 12, 2018

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    Seems straight forward in my easy little world.

    Fans who abuse players should utterly be taken out of football - bans, fines, even more, depending on what they're doing.
    But players have to be above things, they are pros. Rise above it, however hard that is.

    I hope Livermore appreciates the support the FA have shown him. Let off over Coke (Contrast that to Ferdinand getting a huge ban for just missing a test, and not necessarily even taking drugs!), and now this.
    Slightly dangerous precedent the FA have set - is everything allowed in some circumstances?
  28. Jan 12, 2018

    Halftrack Full Member

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    He was effectively banned for ~4 months after testing positive for cocaine. The FA felt there were extenuating circumstances (losing his son and the resulting depression, never tested positive before, had not sought to enhance performance etc.) and decided not to extend the ban. He was ordered to complete a rehab program, and was target tested for a year. He wasn't allowed to do drugs, neither did he escape punishment. He was shown leniency.

    In this latest incident, he was again shown leniency, since his reaction was understandable and nothing serious happened. He was warned not to repeat the stunt, though.
  29. Jan 12, 2018

    Cassady Not to be confused with Cassidy the United fan

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    Going completely off topic here but feck it.

    We are all one .

    ;)

    What we do to others will manifest in so many forms and eventually come back to you. Not only that though. Even smiling at a stranger , being nice to a stranger or even helping a stranger the chances are they will most probably pass on this energy to somebody else . It could be the next person they meet or somebody else later that day etc..

    We are one.

    I' ll stop now :D

    Edit - Just got the white text . Bellend

    :angel:
  30. Jan 12, 2018

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scouse Lover

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    I don't see a problem with certain, non-cheating things being given a pass if your kid has died. Thankfully these things happen so rarely, what's the harm?
  31. Jan 12, 2018

    Halftrack Full Member

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    Saying he was let off is also false. He served a ban while the case was being reviewed by the FA. During that review, things came to light that made the FA decide not to impose any further punishment, other than targeted testing and requiring him to go through a rehab course.