Discussion in 'Player Performances Forum' started by Orton, Jul 18, 2012.
Considering how young our team is I'd say were doing fine in that respect.
you don't follow football very closely do you mate?
Eh? Since when was Hernandez developed at United? Bizarre comment.
I see Theon's all butt-hurt about signing a player he told everyone we didn't need to sign but let's not follow him off on his weird fantasy where Hernandez is the latest incarnation of the "class of '93".
People are also forgetting that we have a lot of tough fixtures immediately after Champions League group games this year too: if all our players are fit then we would be able to play Welbeck and Hernandez midweek and RVP - Rooney at weekend; it is a fantastic option to have.
It'd be a bit strange to let him go as he's the main face on the new membership card!
exactly, drama queen strikes again. As if he knows what Fergie is planning
I get the feeling he gets butt hurt a lot
Yep now we are going to have Van Persie theres no way Cleverley, Welbeck, Rafael, Anderson, De Gea, Jones and Smalling are going to get a game.
Young and Hernandez will suffer for games, probably.
Kagawa will also be played out of position, which is probably the most annoying thing for me.
What are you on about? The only one in the thread who's butt hurt is you. I said he has gone down the pecking order and you start crying and go off on one of your mini rants.
You have a wierd incessant need for everyone to have the same opinion as you, it's pathetic.
Also, please explain how we 'needed' Van Persie?
How do you know he is going down the pecking order? Do you even remember the 1997 - 2000 seasons?
How do I know Hernandez who was third choice this year has gone down the pecking order when we've signed the Player of the Year in his position, along with one of the Bundesliga Player's of the Year off the striker?
I'm on about you talking bollox about how the additional competition Hernandez will face for his place in the team is somehow betraying the traditions of the club. Which is one of the stupidest things I've read since this signing was announced.
The only possible reason for making such a daft claim is because you're pissed off, for some reason (aka butt-hurt) about the signing and trying to find as many ways as possible (no matter how dumb) to paint it in a bad light.
I can only assume this is a wind-up. There's a big difference between using your resources to buy a missing piece in a jigsaw, compared to City who just buy an entire jigsaw.
Developing youth is a fine balancing act. I'm sure if Fergie thought Welbeck and Hernandez could lead us to success then he wouldn't have gone out and spent money on RvP. But success breeds success and if we're not winning things then the club loses money ... money that then can't be spent on youth development.
I'm sure there were fools in Matt Busby's day who complained just as loudly when he bought Tommy Taylor, Harry Gregg or Dennis Law.
We will have Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher, Cleverley, Evans and Welbeck being important members of the first team squad this season. That is an impressive list of home grown talent to have in one of the best squads in the world.
Pouge's definition of talking bollocks - Hernandez has gone down the pecking order
I said he has gone down from 3rd to 5th, which caused you to go off on one of your rants.
I've never said it betrayed the traditions of the club, you're just being wilfully midleading, which is fairly typical of you. I said people will have a right to be concerned about the effects on Welbeck and Hernandez, partly due to the fact our club has been built on developing youth.. hardly has the same force.
Signing him hasn't betrayed anything, I just think it'll have a bad effect on our young forwards.
Anyway, don't dodge the question - how did we 'need' Van Persie?
Chicharito, along with Welbeck, will get enough chances this season. Take into consideration that we'll play 50-60 games this season (depending on how far we get in cup competitions), and you'll see they'll get their chances.
Also as somebody pointed out, we have some tough league matches after CL group matches.
Chicharito is the type of player I'd bring on around the 75th minute mark when you're looking a goal against tired defences. He's a player I'd look to when we need a goal. He'll start certain matches, but he'll likely be used mostly as an impact sub.
I think starting Rooney & RVP up front together, and having Chicharito & Welbeck on the bench is not a bad situation to find ourselves in. A lot of teams would give anything for that.
You'd expect Kagawa to play games off the striker though as well, given that's where he played for Dortmund behind Lewandowski, so that would also be taking games away from Hernandez and Welbeck.
he is like a wind up toy
Pfft don't be silly Gal, football is a two dimensional game in which a team can only ever have eleven players, no subs no rotation and no depth.
How many fecking times, he was not player of the season. I don't know where the feck people are getting this from, still, after it being pointed out about a bazillion times by now.
he is an ear wax riddled numpty but he did say "one of"
Read properly for feck sake.
One of the Bundesliga Player's of the Year.
We should play Kagawa in a midfield two or out wide to give Hernandez more games.
You're a wierd lad.
Do you think Van Persie will be 4th choice?
why is anybody complaining because of competition for places??
Strikers anyway really only reach their peak aged 25+, so both Hernandez and Welbeck both have some amazing years ahead of them.
Once it became clear SAF had lost all confidence in Berbatov, I was underwhelmed last year at the consistent ability of Welbeck or Hernandez to score for us when it mattered. And thats down to inexperience and perhaps not being able to shoulder the responsibility, which is no sleight on either of them given their age.
Likewise, SAF made room for Hernandez in his firsts eason so he got the games to setyle him in, and likewise, last season Berbatov was sacrificed to allow Welcek to be eased in (just like Tevez was dropped to afford Berbatov the same privilege when he joined). My point being, both Hernandez and Welbeck have been welcomed into the first team squad, given the chance to display there quality and both done well. Thats why they are a key part of our squad. But that part has now been done.
Now they are settled, they both need to kick onto the next phase of there Manchester United careers and display continued excellence that is worthy of selection in our team, week in week out.
And for two young strikers, its a God send to have been in the company of Michael Owen and now Rooney and RVP's as technical masters from whom to learn from.
I hope Hernandez and Welbeck both understand why SAF has signed RVP, view it as a development opportunity which will be massively beneficial for them in the long run and grasp that opportunity, as opposed to see his signing be a threat to them and their Manchester United careers.
The confusion came from this websites fan poll whose results found him to be BPOTY.
No but Im not willing to drop Hernandez to 4th or 5th choice like you said. I think there will be plenty of rotation for all 4 or even 5 if we cant get Berba a move. Chicharito is a natural goalscorer in the mould of OGS and you dont jettison players like that which some on here have suggested or have him bottom of the pecking order. As for Kagawa I am not sure how he factors in but at the minute I dont include him in the striker pool. We shall have to see what happens Monday night to get a better idea. This of course if RVP is with us by then.
He wasn't that either. He finished outside the top 3.
Sure I am:
Hernandez is not "one of our youngsters". He'He was never part of our academy and has nothing to do with the tradition of youth development that brought us players like Brown, Fletcher, Scholes, Evans, Cleverley or Welbeck.
Presumably because Fergie is giving up on Berbatov/Owen and has concerns about Rooney, Welbeck and Hernandez as our only three options up front. I mean, it's not exactly difficult to see his logic here. All the more so considering how poor Hernandez was throughout almost all of last season. Not to mention Fergie's longstanding opinion that we need four quality strikers in our squad. Does this really need spelling out to you?
And no, Kagawa is not a fecking striker, no matter how many times you try to tell everyone that he is.
I get the impression that Theon is pigeonholing Kagawa into the support striker role but more importantly I get the impression that Fergie wants to turn him into a CM
I wasn't aware that three was the cut off point in being considered one of the best players in the league.
I'd have said Valencia was one of the Premiership player's of the year last year, but he didn't make the Top 3.
Yes you were, what I said is nothing like 'betraying the traditions of the club' of whatever you came up with.
Kagawa plays off the striker, it's not fecking complicated. I've never said he's a striker, but his position only requires us to play one.
You have some wierd notion that he's a central midfielder, which is just bollocks.
Good. We're getting somewhere.
Kagawa is not a striker. Fergie likes to have four quality strikers in his squad. Assuming Berbatov leaves, that's exactly what we have.
It's all true, but can you agree that the necessity of four quality strikers is somewhat old fashioned? In recent times only us and now Man City (which is more due to funds allowing them to buy higher quality bench warmers than most) have managed to have four high tier strikers. A lot of teams have been successful with only having one or two top strikers and playing an advanced midfielder. I don't think it's out of the realms of possibility to say that Kagawa's signing (and interest in Wesley Sneijder before then) is Fergie's way of preparing the club for the more recognised system in world football when he departs. We're used to the good ol' 442 with two proper strikers and two touchline wingers. This surely won't be the case forever and I expect it to change in the not too distant future really.
Despite having Rooney, van Persie, Welbeck, Hernandez (and even Macheda, Bebe, Singto, Berbatov for now), I see us playing Kagawa behind Rooney a lot and leaving all of those strikers out.
Did you even read what you bolded? I never said he was a striker, you just don't appear to know what his position is.
From judging what you've said in other threads you see him as a central midfielder . He's more a forward/deep-lying striker than a centre mid.
Fergie likes to have four strikers when we use two strikers up top, signing Kagawa takes the need for one away. So four strikers for one postion is just absurd, hence we didn't need him. No team who plays 4-5-1/4-2-3-1 has four senior forwards. Maybe you know of a team I am missing?
I agree with the posters who are saying this will result in Kagawa going out on the left or possibly centre mid more of the time, which isn't his position.
If Kagawa were to play in his natural position then we would only use one striker.
What's so complicated here?
I know, it's incredible.
So the rumours are he wants to leave? I doubt they are true, but can still see him moving within the next year. Now RVP is here he'll get to play league cup striker and get the odd sub appearance unless he dramatically improves, even his finishing which is meant to be his strongest part of his game has been poor.
What's complicating matters is the goldfish memories of prats like Theon who seem to think that having a goal-scoring midfielder who likes to play in advanced areas of the pitch somehow means we can't accomodate four strikers in our squad.
We've already had at least one thread comparing our four strikers with those we had in our treble-winning squad. Kind of weird that people seem to forget that we also had a 24 year-old converted striker playing as an attacking midfielder at the time. Someone who occupied the exact same areas of the pitch that Kagawa will most likely play in this season. This memory lapse is all the more unforgivable because he's still in our fecking squad today!
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