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Jesse Ellis Lingard
Dec 15, 1992 (24)
Much like the Fellaini thread, you've chosen a great picture that encapsulates the essence of the player.
Not my cup of tea as a player but I like the lad.
Gonna be an absolute cnut and say this guy cannot have as many appearances as he did last season.. A proper right winger is much needed this window.
Good player. Hope he kicks on even further next season.
1 goal and 2 assists in 25 league appearances is so rough..
Definitely needs to be adding more goals to his game - 11 in 83, even with some absolutely vital ones in there, isn't enough.
I think he's at his best in a central attacking midfield role. His movement and workrate are excellent. I'd be happy for him to be a replacement for Pogba off the bench. If he can develop a bit more bite, possibly even an option to compete with Herrera.
His movement is definitely the best part of this game.
Can we sell him?
He badly needs to massively improve his output and try add a-lot more consistency to his game.
I wonder if he can improve upon his impressive record of 1 league goal in a season.
Decent bench option. Hope he doesn't start a lot of games as Martial needs consistent game time ahead of him.
The biggest prank he ever pulled off, is managing to convince everyone to give him a new contract lol
I wonder if we aren't going to be seeing him more through the middle this season. I kind of like those slaloms of his, and he might combine well with Lukaku.
42 appearances...5 goals.
Provides 1 goal or assist every 3.1 matches worth of football.
Movement is great, but we're not going to do much if one of our 3/4 attackers is delivering so little.
Also 1 cross per game for a guy playing out wide.
Looking forward to another season of reading how great his movement is.
Shame everything else about him is garbage.
I'm just hoping people(well some anyways) will dial down on the movement talks and start judging him solely on his footballing abilities.
If he still has a poor return(his numbers would be abysmal for an attacking player at decent side, let alone a huge club , it's downright ridiculous) then he'll rightly get criticised over them and people shouldn't be calling other haters over legit and founded criticisms.
"Movements", "work hard" have become such convenient excuses thrown around. Because of last season excessive use of those excuses those words are starting to make me roll my eyes everytime they're brought up.
With that said good luck to Lingard and hope he shows more this season otherwise this thread won't take long before spiralling out of control again.
42 appearances averaging 53 minutes per game.. Probably one of the luckiest people alive, in terms of being blessed with the opportunity to become a professional through our academy, coinciding with the lack of pace on our right wing. He'd be getting lined up to replace George Boyd at Burnley otherwise.
The epitome of our past few seasons, get rid. His movement is actually average (just moving isn't good movement, Mata has good movement as he occupies and exploits pockets of space, Lingard just runs around aimlessly) it's just isn't as bad as everything else so is exaggerated in his defence.
At the risk of starting a thread-derailing debate, no they are not. Good movement is one of the most important abilities in football; it creates space for yourself and other players, which is as valuable as any skill on the ball. And while work rate may not be as valuable in an attacking player as outright skill, it can be extremely valuable in specific games (eg when your opponent has a dangerous fullback that is key to their attacking system). You may be sick of people bringing up movement and work rate as attributes, I'm sick of people dismissing them. Not every player can be a star.
Obviously there's a caveat here; Lingard does need to improve his productivity and definitely become more consistent. But to dismiss two of the most valuable attributes in football as 'excuses' is just naive.
Yes. Don't rate him at all. Not even as a squad player.
Him playing so much says much more about his teammates than himself.
To an extent, absolutely. However, Mourinho seemed much harsher on the likes of Martial and Mkhitaryan; as in, if either of them had one bad game, they could find themselves dropped for multiple games whereas, Lingard could have multiple bad games and still get picked.
I'm still mad at him for that one on one he had in the EL final right at the end. He dithered, slowed down and got tackled like a little boy.
He's so lucky we were already 2-0 up. Imagine it was 0-0, last minute and he did that.
Yes you're right and in a way it highlights even more what I said. Him playing so much means that other players aren't necessarily giving Mourinho satisfaction in terms of delivering what he expects from them. Mourinho is harsher on Martial because he knows he is much much better than Lingard but for whatever reasons, he doesn't show it. Same with Mkhitaryan. It's one way of coaching that has worked out for him, pushing and teasing the better players into reacting positively.
I remember how he used to call Benzema lazy at Real Madrid and was publicly criticizing him, Karim quickly changed his game and he automatically gained Mourinho's trust.
Oh yeah, I totally agree. It's been the modus operandi of Mourinho for as long as I can remember. He is clearly harsher on the more talented players as it seems to be a tool of his to get the best out of them - well attempt to, anyway - and get them playing to his methods.
Funnily enough, he seems to molly coddle the 'less talented' players. He's often come out praising the likes of Young and I remember one game - can't remember who it was against - that Lingard had an absolute stinker, and Mourinho came out and said he played well. You just know if that was either of Martial or Mkhitaryan, he would have berated them. I guess he likes to keep the confidence high in what he perceives as the less talented players and be harsher on the more talented players, to get the best out of them. It's worked for him throughout his career so there must be something in it.
From a fans perspective though, it's pretty obvious why Lingard came in for so much warranted criticism last season. It was infuriating at times watching him have unproductive game after unproductive game and still get picked. Whereas, Martial could have a lively game - but maybe lack end product - and not get picked again for 5/6 matches. Also, some of the excuses put forward on here for Lingard have become tiresome; it's like the Lingard book of clichés: Hardworking, movement, 'young', local lad, good for morale etc. Those things are fine, but they should be part of the player that he is and not be the definition of the player that he is. At the end of the day, his output last season was absolutely diabolical, there's no sugar coating that and he should be judged on what he should be doing; i.e. scoring, assisting etc. Obviously there's more to it than that, but him constantly getting a free pass because of 'movement' and what not is utterly ridiculous. A goal in a cup final or a cross against WBA isn't good enough, the lad needs to add a-lot more consistency to his game.
I think Lingard is going to play a lot this season. A windfall for some of the Caf members: they will have another long season to moan!
I suppose there's only one way based on those stats....and it's that "things can only get better"? :nervouos:
Hopefully his last season at the club.
His run in the team following Mata's injury at the end of last season was atrocious.
Very limited player. If he wasn't a local lad, he would be out the door already.
Don't worry, he will have 1 good game and people start raving about him again
They're not excuses. They are his qualities. Two sides to the debate, one side is a bunch of internet fans, the other side is a bunch of internet fans and Jose Mourinho. Is it at least even possible that your side of the fence is missing something
With Mata and Miki in the squad, and Pogba capable of playing the #10 role, I would have thought Lingard would be 4th choice to get anywhere near the central attacking role.
He works hard, he loves the club and is decent. He's nowhere near good enough to start centrally for us, at a push due to no other options he'd get in on the right.
Ah yes, the Jose is playing him so he must be good defence.
His movement is average, he runs round but not intelligently like Mata or mhiki, it's more aimless and random.
It's just not bad like everything else he does, like saying Fellaini is good because he has solid chest control, despite every other ability being poor.
In my opinion, modern football isn't as easy as having a team of 11 players putting the ball in the back of the net. Sometimes, we need players who can play defensively on the wing, players who can hug the touch line to make space for others, a player who is in the right space at the right time, a player able to provide a link between multiple areas in the pitch.
It's now been 2 world renowned managers that have used Lingard & I am more than happy for it to continue as long as he continues to do what the manager asks of him.
Football is a game of chess, and a team full of queen pieces will struggle to win against a team of a balanced knights and pawns.
I personally see him moving centrally to provide a pivot like he did for Rashford against Chelsea.
Have you forgotten what Mourinho did with De Bruyne and Lukaku at Chelsea? He is not infallible. If Lingard is a regular starter this season then we're not getting top four. He's barely mid table level no matter what people say about his 'movement'.
I know it's opinions but I disagree with most of this, right up to the chess. You could literally get check mate in 1 move.
The bits I agree with are needing a couple grafters, but not on the wing!
Two managers have had a go and both seriously struggled to make us an attacking.
Fergie played cleverly Gibson Richardson all players that are lingards level and he let them go because they weren't good enough
Hehe that's fair play and without turning this to a game of chess - going for a one move check mate every game isn't going to work & May do more harm than good.
Lingard has maybe only done less than average to fans; but what we as fans want isn't necessarily what the manager wants on the pitch once the whistle blows.
Furthermore to me, the way he works on the pitch, I can only fathom to say that he tries hard to improve his game off it too. Considering he has had a late upbringing; I reckon he could atleast be a good squad player in a couple of years..
Since he is homegrown; this can only provide benefit and guidance to others too. Either way, the decision to pick him so much is Lingard'fault - it's the managers and it should be treated like that by the fans.
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