Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Solius, Jul 26, 2009.
I doubt they're much harsher than what he was told by management after the game
Its very worrying, because straight up defending is his strong point and everything else is a weak point. When he cant even do a decent job defending... Spells trouble.
He was also fantastic at Sunderland. To the point where most of the fans on their forum wanted them to break their transfer record to try to keep a hold of him. Some (although on the minority) were even saying they should offer him captaincy because of how well he marshalled their defence.
He generally out-performed Pique in the reserves when they played together, and then did better in their early matches in the first team.
All in all, he was brilliant up until January this year, consistently performing far ahead of almost any other central defender around his age. No doubting he's been average to shit in the time since, but let's not forget everything that came before.
I think Fergie will just take him completely out of the firing line for a while. I'll be somewhat surprised if we see him again in the first team (barring a lot of injuries) before February, it's time just to take him out and give him time to get his head right.
I used to watch him at Sunderland and while he played fantastically for a young defender, he still made plenty of mistakes. Mistakes which were much less of an occurance next to Rio and Vida and why he was rated so highly.
That's just such typical Ekeke logic.
You've made up your mind that his inadequacies have been glossed over by playing alongside Rio and Vidic, so when it's pointed out what a huge hit he was at Sunderland you decide that actually he was making loads of mistakes for them too that were somehow obvious to your expert eye but too subtle for the average Mackem to pick up on.
Horseshit, from start to finish. Any sane person would admit that it's a fair point he played well at Sunderland without Vida and Rio so yes, you might be wrong about Evans needing to be carried but not you, oh no...
Typical Pogue Mahone assumptions. I remember posting about a couple of his mistakes I watched him make at Sunderland. I may even recall one right now where he dived in for a challenge against Chelsea, didnt get the ball and the space was exploited behind him leading to a goal.
There's a difference between playing well for the likes of Sunderland in front of those Mackems and playing well without first choice defenders at United.
Something you'll talk about with Foster at Watford but somehow this is different. Because its not Foster, its Evans.
As I said, he did play really well for a young defender but the mistakes were still there. There's no need to try and rewrite history to make our players sound better but some feel the need.
A young defender can play brilliantly at the likes of Sunderland even though he's made mistakes. Evans himself proved that
Of course he made some mistakes at Sunderland. He was what, 19 when he went there. Name one central defender that didn't make mistakes at that age.
But they weren't regular mistakes, just the same as he wasn't making regular mistakes for the first 18 months after coming back here. Overall in all that time he was performing brilliantly considering his age and the amount of high-pressure matches he was playing against some of the best attackers in the world. It's only since around January that his performances have dropped off significantly.
As I said, he was fantastic for a young defender. Fantastic, brilliant, whatever word you want to use. Just not perfect.
Yes there is a difference - it's generally much harder playing in defence for Sunderland than for United. The exception is being exposed to more high pressure games - which Jonny has generally excelled at for United.
I know loads of Sunderland fans and they all thought he was an absolute god. 'The mistakes are there' for any footballer, in any side.
Same with Foster and Watford fans. But he struggled in a team where we didnt have all our first choice defenders
When you're a young player out on loan a lot of your mistakes are swept under the carpet because not everyone is watching you. Thats what happened with Evans. Had he have made his mistakes in the first team at United he'd have had threads questioning his ability even then, as do most our young players when they make a mistake for the first team
That couldn't be further from the truth. Loan players get a level of scrutiny and criticism that far exceeds that which is aimed at their own players. The fans can't wait to slag off a player who isn't even theirs to begin with.
Which is why those exact same Mackems were so quick to get on Welbeck's case earlier this season. If a player becomes a big hit while out on loan you can be absolutely certain they've been playing very well indeed.
Should have been more specific. I meant they get swept under the carpet on here by our fans. Yeah other clubs tend to take a while to warm to them. But at the same time the clubs we tend to send players to arent used to particularly good players. So once they decide they are good, they can also go a bit over the top. "...for England!" etc
He just made very few mistakes at Sunderland, is all. He was Rio-like. However, that is an interesting example of the very peculiar English 'double perfect' conditional construction, so your post wasn't entirely without interest
Alright, if he was Rio-like how do you want to explain his lack of on the ball skill? Something Rio is know for. He was nothing like Rio and hasnt become any closer.
I doubt he will out till February. That is a long time. The lad is lacking in confidence. That is why the match against West Ham was important. If we had won, there is a possibility we could had a weak team next. So we could have played him again and he MIGHT have done better.
FA Cup is important for us now. We need to beat Liverpool and there is bound to be at least one easy match for us. He needs to play against weaker teams to gain his confidence back up.
He mightnt have been quite as smooth as Rio was on the ball but he was still a very cool and composed player on the ball, and especially for one so young. That was really the most notable thing about his first couple of seasons. There was none of this dwelling on the ball and aimless hoofing that we're seeing at the minute.
Well I disagree. The first thing I noticed about him was his positioning
No he wasn't. He always has been a pretty nervous wreck when he has the ball. There is not one game where he has not played a risk back pass to the GK and he expects VDS to clear it for him. He rarely plays the ball forward.
The ratio of him playing the ball forward to playing it sideways or backwards is very small. He mostly plays it back or sideways whether he has time on the ball or not. The sign of a good player in any sport where a ball in involved is that you should always want the ball to come to you - Cricket, Basketball, Soccer, Football etc.
He is a brilliant defender that had a horrific off night last night. He will see better days but he needs to bulk up and sort his head out. He is not getting a look in so how can he be expected to perform. Phil Neville is an example - often a laughing stock with fans but left for a top 6 team and became their best player!
Smalling does not play week in week out. He still performs exceptionally well for a player who only plays like once in two weeks and sometimes even less. You have to learn everyday from Vidic and Rio. There are no better teammates in this world who you could learn more from than those two. Its a blessing for you if you are a young and upcoming defender and you have two of the top five defenders in your team.
He's having a somewhat prolonged dip in form, which is not utterly worrying for a relatively young defender. On the other hand, he's not progressed as much as I had hoped considering the potential he showed at 19. Let's hope he gets it together soon.
People have to stop using words like 'great' and 'brilliant' when talking about Evans.
Problem is evans is clearly regressing at the minute. This is becoming more than a dip in form. It started at the tail of last season and has got steadily worse.
Did he have surgery on his ankle? Was he having nagging injury problems towards the end of last season and he wanted to postponed his treatment till the season ended?
Took these quotes from the matchday thread but thought they were worth a separate airing.......
initially refering to Smalling Fergie went on with.....
"and the form of Jonny Evans on the training pitch. "Jonny had a fantastic season last season and he’s starting to come into form again," said the manager. "His training performances have been absolutely superb in the last few weeks. I’ve got two great talents there."
Theres a good chance that between now and the end of the season Evans will get a run of games, heres hoping the above is true and we see him back to the composed defender that impressed so much last season. A very important player for us potentially
Great news. There was never any doubt he'd find his form again. If he's upped his game in training it can't be long before he's back to his best in a competitive game.
Its all about the squad from here on in imo. Valencia, Rooney, Evans are all vital players that have been missed. If we can keep the majority of the squad fit, add those 3 and it bodes well.
If he learns how to defend crosses we will have two of the best two young center backs in the epl at our disposal
It was pretty lucky that no one thought of crossing the ball against us during that record breaking defensive run last year wasn't it?
Well, I think Fergie just wants to keep Evans sweet while it seems Smalling has moved ahead of him in the pecking order.
I would not be surprised if Evans plays against Liverpool.
Two seasons ago.
Possibly. Although if Evans wasn't playing really well in training he'd be well aware of that fact. Which would mean Fergie coming out and saying he was playing superbly would be more likely to confuse the hell out of him than keep him sweet.
Obviously his form has dipped but I find it strange that a good number of posters on this forum seem to have completely forgotten his terrific performances alongside Vidic over the last couple of years, especially in Europe. All this talk that Smalling is a better defender and a better prospect is such knee-jerkery, Evans has proven himself as one of the best young defenders in world football and a dodgy start to this season doesn't change that in my eyes.
Erm.. to be honest, i've always felt he was incredibly overrated, even during gour fantastic spell of clean sheets 2 seasons ago. I'm not saying he is a bad player, but from the first day, he had always been suspect in the air, as well as with players running at him, and that had not changed one bit since then. Smalling on the other hand, possesses all the qualities needed to be as good as Rio. All he need is experience, which is the only advantage Evans had over him.
I think Smalling is a good prospect but he hasn't shown anything like the potential that Evans has shown- the boy has had mature performances against Inter, AC Milan, Chelsea and Arsenal to name but a few. He's still in his early twenties and people are writing him off because he's had a dodgy start to the season!
I just can't agree with you when you say he's always looked suspect in the air or "with players running at him", I have seen great defenders look poor on occasion in both of those facets of defending but you can't expect young players to be completely perfect and never make mistakes. I contend that Evans will be one of the best cb's in the world when he's in his mid to late thirties, he's already proven so much.
His breakthrough performances for Sunderland and Northern Ireland really make a joke of this post. Suspect in the air isnt true. As a defender he reads the game, more like Rio in that respect. That style of defender rarely excels in their early 20's, Remember Rio and West ham and Leeds? Similar type of "errors", its part of the course.
Players running at him is a bit of lazy criticism. Look around the world and name me anyone defender who is comfortable with it? Look at Puyol/Pique? Look at Rio and the weekend, look at Vidic during his own dodgy spell. Its all about confidence levels imo.
Smalling is promising I agree but Evans is still the better option at the highest level. Having him there will only focus the mind more as far as Jonny is concerned. That my take on it anyway.
I find it really funny people slagging off Evans. His performances over the last two season have proved that he's one of the best Young CB's around. During our 'Have not conceded" run he was an integral part. Infact that whole season he was a integral part of the whole team as it seemed when Rio was fit, Vida was injured and when Vida was fit Rio was Injured. Evans fitted in perfectly.
You don't suddenly become a shit player over night. He's going through a spell of bad form, every player does. Rooney isn't in the best of form right now and he's still a top top player.
Ah maybe because Smalling has been here only 6 months and still hasn't played against the likes of Milan and Inter. We still have not played Chelsea this season. And he did not play the one game we played against Arsenal this season. I still think Smalling will become a better defender than Evans.
It's like the people who said " I always said Rooney was shit" when his form dropped so badly after his injury against Bayern. They were pretty quiet about that view earlier that season.
Rooney proved he is class over a long period before his form dropped, and Evans is the same. Rooneys getting back to a better level, and I'm sure Evans will be the same given time.
But Rooney is one of the best players and one of the best strikers in the world. Evans is no where close to being the best defender in the world.
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