Jorginho

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by United Pro, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. Dec 29, 2017
    #1

    United Pro Full Member

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    He's a 26 year old Italian, defensive midfielder playing for Napoli. He's reportedly a target, along with Weigl, as a replacement for Carrick who'll end his playing days here at the end of the season. He's a technically sound player with an incredibly good passing range. If we were to get him, it'd be interesting to see how he'd fit in with Pogba and Matic.

    Here's the article linking us with him:
    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/man-utd-transfer-news-jorginho-14090888
  2. Dec 29, 2017
    #2

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    Heard good things about him here on the Caf, albeit from most playing in that Napoli team. But haven’t watched much, if any, of him playing.
  3. Dec 29, 2017
    #3

    SwansonsTache incontinent sexual deviant & German sausage lover

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    Want this guy more than Savic.

    A midfield 3 of him, Matic and Pogba would be very sound defensively but still have playmaking ability.

    A player like him combined with Matic would also totally relieve Pogba of defensive duties.
  4. Dec 29, 2017
    #4

    robbieromance New Member

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    Does it even matter that he’s Champions League tied? Play him through the league games and carry on as you were in the CL.
  5. Dec 29, 2017
    #5

    Peanut Butter Full Member

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    Reliable source?
  6. Dec 29, 2017
    #6

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member

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    I have to say I don't know much about him, but DM with good technique/passing sounds a lot like Matic to me. Matic - Pogba - Jorginho would therefore make us incredibly solid but I'd worry about our creativity and dynamism, even with an unshackled Pogba.

    If anyone knows more than me about the player, which isn't difficult, please correct me but it sounds more like a signing that will complement what we have like Matic (no bad thing) rather than a next level-type.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  7. Dec 29, 2017
    #7

    GaryLifo Nice Bloke

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    I've never heard of him but he sounds like he'll power us on to number 21.

    Sign sign sign
  8. Dec 29, 2017
    #8

    Tom Van Persie No relation

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    He would be one hell of a signing.
  9. Dec 29, 2017
    #9

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    He is fantastic but, I have a feeling that we will not sign him.
  10. Dec 29, 2017
    #10

    United Pro Full Member

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    I would say Luckhurst is pretty reliable yeah. He's one of a few journalists that get briefed by the club.
  11. Dec 29, 2017
    #11

    SS Full Member

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    Isn't he fairly poor at actually defending? I remember a poster (maybe Invictus) pointing out he wasn't very athletic and his tackling was average. He wouldn't look as good in a team like ours as we don't have a possession-based system.
  12. Dec 29, 2017
    #12

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    Yeah, not so sure about him either.
  13. Dec 29, 2017
    #13

    ash_86 Full Member

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    Obligatory 2017-18 video
  14. Dec 29, 2017
    #14

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    He's an excellent player, my mate's a Napoli fan and says he's one of the best midfielder Italy currently has. Needless to say he gets angry when he's not picked for the National Team
  15. Dec 29, 2017
    #15

    United_We_Stand Full Member

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  16. Dec 29, 2017
    #16

    SwansonsTache incontinent sexual deviant & German sausage lover

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    From a PL club he will ask something closer to £70m surely.
  17. Dec 29, 2017
    #17

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

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    Looks a very good player, would hope we are interested and this isn't just nonsense.
  18. Dec 29, 2017
    #18

    Poborsky1871 Banned

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    We have enough run of the mill players, Jorginho is the Messi of run of the mills.

    We need a 'crack' player, We need a player that makes us go from joint 2nd favorites for the title with Chelsea next year to possibly joint favorites with City.

    Dybala, Griezmann, Kane, Cavani etc Otherwise say hello to 2-2 vs the likes of Burnley etc. We need players that will break on teams like a mofo and make scoring 5 at home a regular occurrence not a once a year thing.
  19. Dec 29, 2017
    #19

    Rozay Not good at posting fixture lists

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    That isn’t the answer. It will always seem the answer to keep adding ‘one more special player’ - but the unit needs to improve. We are not even a team that knows what formation we will use from game to game. No identity. We just try and send good players out there and hope for the best. More offensive ones if we think opposition is weak, or more defensive if they are good. This needs to change first and foremost. Adding more good players will help a bit, but not as much as it would if we had a fecking clue.
  20. Dec 29, 2017
    #20

    Freak Born a freak always a freak.

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    Looks really good from that video. I love how he passes it quickly and so accurately. He'd be useful in a counter attacking set up. With the way Matic has been running the show in our midfield (both in attack and in defence), maybe we could play Matic as a box-box midfielder in a 4-3-3 set up.

    Martial----Lukaku-----RW (Ozil? Malcom?)
    -------Matic----Pogba----
    ----------Jorginho--------
  21. Dec 29, 2017
    #21

    Nedved Full Member

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    He’s not really like Matic. He’s a well rounded central midfielder with playmaking qualities. He usually plays with free-roaming Hamsik and one of the defensive powerhouses Allan or Diawara in a midfield three.

    I guess somewhat similar players to him are the more mature versions of Fabregas, Marchisio, Koke or even Dejan Stankovic, when he was still good.
  22. Dec 29, 2017
    #22

    deafepl Full Member

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    I think -----------Pogba----
    ---------------Matic---Jorginho-------- is better.
  23. Dec 29, 2017
    #23

    Mcking Full Member

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    This guy is the definition of a luxury player. One you would do okay without.
  24. Dec 29, 2017
    #24

    DWelbz19 Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Huh? Fabregas, Marchisio, and Koke are all 3 very different players.
  25. Dec 29, 2017
    #25

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

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    Jorginho is a wonderful player to watch; however, him transferring to United under José would unfortunately be neither a good move for the player nor a good move for the club.

    Firstly, Jorginho can only play in one style of play: a highly-structured, possession-oriented set-up. If you were to ask him to play in a counter-attacking set-up, you would fail to get the best out of him considering that he's not particularly adept at sitting back out-of-possession for long periods of time. In that sense, you could draw some comparisons between Jorginho and Busquets in that both of them can only play in one style of play.

    Secondly, Jorginho shares another thing in common with Busquets in that both of them can only really play in a 4-3-3, and moreover, both of them can only play as the deepest-lying midfielder in a midfield-three. Jorginho lacks the natural athleticism to play further up the pitch; in no way shape or form is he a CM, he is a regista.

    Thirdly, Jorginho has thrived at Napoli as the central hub of their build-up play. Napoli's style of play is based on getting several players close by to each other in order to (a) create quick passing options, (b) to draw the opposition out from deep blocks, and (c) to make the opposition's pressing less effective. Napoli's highly-structured attacks allow Jorginho to have a defined role within the team, and allow the other Napoli players to also have a clear and coherent idea of what they are to do in possession (Like City under Pep, and Dortmund last season under Tuchel to a somewhat lesser extent).

    Unfortunately, the three necessities just mentioned (Can't play in a classic counter-attacking set-up, must be the deepest-lying midfielder in a 4-3-3, and must play in a highly-structured set-up) would likely not be available to Jorginho at United under José. In the biggest matches of the season, José reverts to a deep, counter-attacking set-up. Moreover, United this season have mainly deployed a midfield-two, so buying Jorginho (In either January or the summer)would likely necessitate a move to a midfield-three. However, both Jorginho and Matic can only play as the deepest-lying midfielder in a 4-3-3; asking either of them to play as more of a CM would be a remarkably foolish move. Thirdly, José's sides have never been highly-structured in possession vis-a-vis Pep' sides or Sarri's sides. Asking Jorginho to play in an unstructured set-up would be a waste of time for a very intelligent player, and would be a waste of resources for a very big club.

    Qualitatively-speaking, Jorginho should be the type of player we are looking for. Admittedly, his ceiling may not be as high as the ceiling of someone like Pirlo; however, there are very few deep-lying midfielders around right now IMO who are definitively better than him. What's more, he has only recently just turned 26, which is relatively young for a regista.

    However, Jorginho at United under José would not be a good move for either the player or the club. Hypothetically-speaking, Jorginho would be a terrific fit at United if José were to be replaced at the end of the season by someone like Sarri or Tuchel. That's an entirely hypothetical situation however; for as good a player as Jorginho is, him coming to United under José would neither benefit him nor the club.
  26. Dec 29, 2017
    #26

    Rozay Not good at posting fixture lists

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    You don’t start converting a defensive midfielder into a box-to-box one in his thirties.
  27. Dec 29, 2017
    #27

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    I watched a lot of him last year and I know he is Italian but to me he looks like what you would expect a Brazilian Carrick to be.
  28. Dec 29, 2017
    #28

    deafepl Full Member

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    He's not really Mourinho's signing, isn't he? I hope It's more like Woodwork's signing to build for future managers like Sarri
  29. Dec 29, 2017
    #29

    Blind Full Member

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    Would probably look half the player in this United set up. Someone with an engine like Fabinho or a press resistant link up player would be more sensible midfield signings assuming Jose's still in charge next season. I'd love to see a player like Jorginho thrive in a United team though, Matic and Pogba are excellent players but the midfield is still lacking someone who can consistently set the tempo and control a game.
  30. Dec 29, 2017
    #30

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Wasn't Carrick also 26-27ish when United bought him?
  31. Dec 29, 2017
    #31

    onemanarmy Full Member

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    I remember him hardly starting a CL game this season. Any particular reason?
  32. Dec 29, 2017
    #32

    beingshe7don Full Member

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    He was 24 I believe
  33. Dec 29, 2017
    #33

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

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    Napoli had no interest this year in the CL. This is their best chance in years of winning Serie A, so they have prioritised winning the league at all costs; to do that, they rotated a bit in the CL.
  34. Dec 29, 2017
    #34

    onemanarmy Full Member

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    Makes sense, thanks.
  35. Dec 29, 2017
    #35

    Devil may care Full Member

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    I agree, we need to build a team that has a distinct way of playing, we have no distinctive identity as a footballing side, we change formation on the regular and are always reacting rather than looking to impose our play, that needs to change or you could throw Neymar in the side and we'd ultimately wobble.

    We need to become a more possession based team, it's fine for Leicester to operate as a counter attacking side but it's very hard for us to do so as we have the bulk of the ball in most games as teams sit off us and pack their half. Fabregas played well under Mourinho so I don't think it's impossible that Jorginho could as well, otherwise are we just to keep looking for burly box to box CM's?
  36. Dec 29, 2017
    #36

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

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    I'd personally prefer United to be a more possession-oriented side; I don't know how my earlier post came across, but I would like to see United play a highly-structured, possession-based style, and I would like to see United sign Jorginho. However, for much as I want to see that happen, José is unlikely to change his modus operandi; provided that José's approach remains the same, signing Jorginho would likely be a 'square pegs in round holes' approach.

    I think that Fabregas and Jorginho are fundamentally different players in terms of two aspects: (a) their respective positioning on the pitch, and (b) whether they are reliant on a structured attack to get the best out of the individual player.

    Firstly, Jorginho has pretty much always been the deepest-lying midfielder in a 4-3-3 (Under Sarri that is); Fabregas on the other hand tends to play in a slightly more advanced role (CM, not CDM nor regista). IIRC, Fabregas has sometimes been the deepest midfielder at Chelsea this season, although that role has been infrequent. Regardless, they're not like-for-like players, which makes it harder to compare them under Mourinho.

    Secondly, Jorginho is much more reliant on playing as part of a structured system than Fabregas IMO. The tactical structures that Guardiola and Sarri employ at City and Napoli respectively simplifies the game for the players, and makes it easier for them to perform their roles on the pitch. A lack of structure only really works when you have sui generis top-level players, who have both an innate sense of what to do on the pitch and have remarkable technical ability. For me, Fabregas falls under this category, whereas Jorginho does not. That's not to say that Jorginho is a bad player (In all likelihood, you could say that he is a World-Class regista); however, he just does not innately have the precocious ability Fabregas has in terms of sensing what to do and in terms of outstanding technical refinement. Therefore, Fabregas is much more capable of playing in an unstructured set-up than Jorginho (Bearing in mind that José's offensive apporach tends to be unstructured).
  37. Dec 29, 2017
    #37

    Devil may care Full Member

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    Very interesting read, when I have watched Napoli the way Jorginho plays reminds me of Verratti with Motta, in that he drops deepest to recieve in possession but out of posession pushes ahead of Allan who does the protecting, as opposed to always being the deepest like say an Alonso or Carrick as his defensive side isn't as good.

    I agree with you on the lack of structure under Morinho, there seems to be no real pattern to how we play, even when we don't have the ball we mostly seem to just race back and try to cover individuals, we don't defend from the front and squeeze teams aqnd defend spaces, we let them counter right onto us and hope to get a tyackle in, and in attack we just rely on individual moments as opposed to an attacking style or patterns of play, this was very evident agaisnt Burnley where we didn't change our attacking pattern at all we jsut threw more attacking players on and relied ont wo individual moments of quality from Lingard to dig us out.

    This does bring the question of who you think we should go for then if Mourinho can't change? As we clearly need another CM and we need someone to fit in with Pogba and Matic to aid both of their games.
  38. Dec 29, 2017
    #38

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    Mourinho had some success with a similar player in Xabi Alonso.
  39. Dec 29, 2017
    #39

    prath92 Full Member

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    He is good for Napoli but he reminds me of how Xhaka was in Germany. No doubt that the system is really helping him at Napoli
  40. Dec 29, 2017
    #40

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

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    If we want to get the best out of Pogba, José will have to play a 4-3-3 IMO. We could go one of two ways: either buy more of a controlling CM or buy more of a Box-to-Box midfielder. I'd say that José is much more likely to go for the B2B option, seeing as he has generally preferred counter-attacking approaches to more possession-based approaches. If anything, José should concentrate on buying a Herrera-Plus CM i.e. a midfielder who is stylistically similar to Herrera, but is more technically proficient. There are quite a few good options off the top of my head, although some may be very expensive; Allan, Saul Niguez, Goretzka are all good examples, with Saul being the best of the three. IMO, this sort of midfielder can generally adapt to any approach; Allan for example is very comfortable in possession for Napoli, but you could imagine him being equally effective in a more defensive approach.