Jose criticizes lack of concentration and professionalism in build-up to St Etienne match

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by RedDevil@84, Feb 17, 2017.

  1. Feb 17, 2017
    #81

    Camilo Full Member

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    I just reckon they probably were. I think you notice it in people in general these days - there's more of a "feck you, I can do this" attitude to young people than there was. And while that's generally a bad thing, when you're actually good at something (like all our players are) it can be a great thing.

    The way the class of 92 speak about "how it was" when I hear them these days... The protection they were afforded by players like Keane, and men like SAF.. And it was a different time in the world of media. They needed leaders, whereas I'm not so sure this new generation really do. They have to stand up or they're nowhere. It's a healthier dynamic. I dunno - maybe it's all bollocks, but it makes some kind of sense in my head.

    But there's no doubt; if you can be more casual with your life, but retain the focus and professionalism when you need to, you'll be a healthier, stronger person.
  2. Feb 17, 2017
    #82

    RedStarUnited Full Member

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    Im glad Jose said this.

    Annoys me so much when people inn here think, you cant talk about negative things in a game after a win. Yeah we won 3-0 but on another day we could have been 2 goals down ourselves.
  3. Feb 17, 2017
    #83

    derace New Member

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    would be cool if jose ban the social media nonsense of the lads.
  4. Feb 17, 2017
    #84

    Minimalist Full Member

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    Pogba wasn't the problem yesterday. Regarding his persona - provided he works hard and contributes (which he does when he's on) then he's no different to Beckham with his off field antics.

    Not sure exactly regarding Jose saying this publically but we'll see if he gets a response or not.
  5. Feb 17, 2017
    #85

    Red Star One New Member

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    Jose did what he should have done, I am very happy to have a manager constantly demanding full focus from the players. It seems obvious but it's not always the case.

    The thing I appreciated most though were Zlatan's comments after yesterday
    It's not the first time he mentions fighting on all fronts and being fully focused whether it's a league game, FA cup or Europa League. Absolutely love this kind of attitude - you won't hear a word about fatigue, a lot of games, he won't whine. That's a winning mentality.
  6. Feb 17, 2017
    #86

    sugar_kane Full Member

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    Not necessarily the Class of 92 specifically but some of the celebrations Sharpey and Giggs used to do were a bit cringeworthy and very similar (or worse) to what Lingard etc. are now criticised for.

    It's also well documented that they liked a party and this had to be reigned in by Fergie and the likes of Keano no doubt. I reckon it probably contributed to Sharpe's exit.

    The Class of 92 were probably a bit more level headed but there are definitely some stories of them pissing about in the film eg. Scholes getting locked in a washing machine or one of them burning Peter Schmeichel's penis with a kettle.

    Just lads behaviour really - that's why you need the likes of Keano and Zlatan (and Jose/Fergie) to help channel that youthful exuberance.
  7. Feb 17, 2017
    #87

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    I think he's right, some of the players do appear to be easily distracted from the job.
  8. Feb 17, 2017
    #88

    SachinJ22 New Member

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    True that, they expect Pogba to perform like Iniesta or Yaya Toure every match. :lol:
  9. Feb 17, 2017
    #89

    King.of.Red New Member

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    yup, early minutes we lacked concentration and they almost scored goal. about Pogba attitude, I have no problem with that, because it's his personality and against St. Etienne he played very well, but indeed he should act more serious in dressing room before kickoff because he will affect other players who dont have concentration level like Pogba.
  10. Feb 17, 2017
    #90

    Treble_Winning New Member

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    If we really are saying that the expectations on Pogba are similar to Messi and Ronaldo, honestly we are being very unfair - he is young and must be given room to develop. He is ALREADY doing a good job for us and needs encouragement, not ridiculous expectations.

    At the end of the day football is something that must be enjoyed. We want our players to enjoy playing football, so that they can express themselves and perform at their best. If it becomes a pure "grind" they could very well burn out, lose interest, and get sick of the game, is that what we want?

    We aren't talking about experienced, battle hardened guys like Messi or Ronaldo who have been at it for years. We are talking about youngsters. What exactly is wrong with Pogba enjoying the occasion of playing against his brother and why do the likes of Roy Keane and others have to give him so much shit for it especially when we won 3-0?

    Speaking of which, when was the last time Keane actually had any fun doing anything at all?? He just looks like a bitter old man these days with his scathing commentary, snarling and growling at everything.
  11. Feb 17, 2017
    #91

    AndyJ1985 Full Member

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    It's exactly as it should be. Bad performances earn criticism in every line of work, and footballers should be no exception. Any players who can't handle it can feck off.
  12. Feb 17, 2017
    #92

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

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    No. I haven't said that he is on levels of Messi or Ronaldo in terms of expectation. I am comparing the expectation from Pogba Vs that from Martial or any other player and possible reason for the higher expectation.

    I didn't say or suggest that it was wrong for Pogba to celebrate or party, but expecting people not to put him under the scanner (more than others) when he actively attracts attention towards himself with haircuts, emojis, dance steps etc., is a bit ridiculous. When you live a lot on social media, you get lot more stick than others and it is perfectly normal.
  13. Feb 17, 2017
    #93

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

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    You can see that his focus is not just on our actual performance, but also on the mind. We were too casual for the past 3 years, now he wants that we get in our "zone" before games and are ready to kill the other team. Like it was under Fergie, who would never accept an easy going mind or sluggishness. It's a good kick up the players arses and I want us to starting games much better than we did this season
  14. Feb 17, 2017
    #94

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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    He's right to call them out.

    A flurry of fixtures over the next month; we can't afford to switch off as we did after St Etienne conceded. Better teams will punish us and he knows it.

    Just reminding them to be professional that's all-nothing to get in a lather about
  15. Feb 17, 2017
    #95

    Skills Snitch

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    This kind of collective criticism I don't mind. I don't like it when he singles out individuals though.
  16. Feb 17, 2017
    #96

    crossy1686 Full Member

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    I'm happy he dug them out over this.

    We've got a tough run in and a cup final to play, can't be taking anything for granted at this stage. Nothing wrong with reminding people to be professional and prepare for a fixture correctly.
  17. Feb 17, 2017
    #97

    GrandJury New Member

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    He's absolutely right and not just for yesterdays game. Our mentality in the first halfs of games has been consistently poor compared to the second half performances.
  18. Feb 17, 2017
    #98

    predator Full Member

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    Again, typical Mourinho. Using the media to get to his players. Fergie would've bollocked them behind closed doors which I personally believe is better way to address issues than bitch about it to a load of journalists.

    I do agree with the 'don't get content' attitude though which Mourinho is getting at. I remember in 2008 when we were the best team in the world, Ronaldo, Rio, Rooney etc, albeit not as social media obsessed, were all buzzing and winding eachother up. It was justified though.

    It is yet to be seen whether Mourinho's methods are going to work. I mean you can't exactly put an end to Pogba's positive and jovial attitude. He isn't Roy Keane and never will be.
  19. Feb 17, 2017
    #99

    Lentwood Full Member

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    Some people really struggle to tell the difference between somebody who is desperate to win at all costs, but likes to enjoy their football i.e. Paul Pogba and players who genuinely have a problem with mentally preparing themselves for big football matches. I would say given the fact that Mourinho specifically named the pass-back incident it was a warning shot to Eric Bailly who was very, very slack first half and maybe has started to think he has "made it" at Utd because he has had 15 decent games
  20. Feb 17, 2017

    RedRoach Full Member

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    Think this is being blown a little out of proportion. There is no problem with players creating a good atmosphere through a little bit of fun in the dressing room. Hell all of our successful sides did that. Rio and Evra were real jokers. It is only an issue if the serious matter of football doesn't take over when they walk on the pitch. Probably Mourinho felt that is what happened, but there is no need for them to be miserable, fire-breathing psychopaths before each game IMO.
  21. Feb 17, 2017

    CG1010 Full Member

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    I am very doubtful that Mourinho was talking about Pogba. Couldn't see the match but based on the comments above, he didn't do much wrong yesterday. He seemed to be talking about the efforts and focus of the players on the match. I doubt he has a problem with players using social media and winding each other up in general.

    About public v private thing, I don't mind to be honest. I vaguely remember Fergie also often criticised the collective effort of the team when he thought it wasn't up to the mark. Privately Jose should of course point to individual mistakes.
  22. Feb 17, 2017

    King7Eric Full Member

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    That is an interesting insight and I suppose you may be right that they were more protected. But I'd also say about the class of 92 that they were the kind of individuals who were willing to die on the football pitch to win a match. You could never fault them for a lack of effort and to me atleast they seemed the kind of people who were willing to sacrifice their entire being to be successful on the pitch. Maybe that is why they were protected by SAF and Keane who themselves were like that.

    But with our present generation of younger players I don't really get that impression. Look at someone like Zlatan. He talks a lot off the field and works towards creating his image but when on the field you can see he would be willing to kill to win. I just don't get that impression from the likes of Pogba, Lingard, Martial, Shaw etc. I'm not questioning these players' commitment but I do think they lack that relentless pursuit to win at all costs.
  23. Feb 17, 2017

    BringNaniBack Leaves a bullshit trail behind him

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    You could see it from the start of the game they all thought it was a bit of a joke game and an easy win. They were playing as if it was a game in the park with their mates for the first 10 minutes.
  24. Feb 17, 2017

    ElQuesoGrande Banned

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    If only Mourinho was in a position to influence the attitude of the team rather than just moan about it in public. Alas.
  25. Feb 17, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    Huh?
  26. Feb 17, 2017

    NinjaZombie Full Member

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    He did though. And it resulted in an improved second half and a 3-0 win.
  27. Feb 17, 2017

    Hugh Jass Full Member

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    I remember reading that alright. Evra said they were joking on the bus after winning it and Ferguson said something about getting rid of players if they drop their standards.
  28. Feb 17, 2017

    shaky Full Member

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    Mentioning it public was just to reinforce to the players that this is the attitude needed from the start of every game in the future, and letting them know that the fans will be expecting to see it too.
  29. Feb 17, 2017

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    One of the most tiresome and quite cringe thing that keeps getting thrown around are those never handing bit about how One would never see X past player do this or that.

    For Christ sakes so what? They were their own players so are these new guys. Those past players don't dictate how one human being should behave and conduct themselves.

    "If Roy Keane was here bla...", "You'd never see the Neville brothers bla. ..", I mean it doesn't get anymore cringy and annoying then that.
  30. Feb 17, 2017

    antohan gets aroused by tagline boobs

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    I like the logic of being public in the sense that ultimately the players should answer to the fans for that shitshow of a first half. You will get pampered babies if you treat them as such.

    When he singles out I get more jittery but so far it looks like he was right putting a few noses out of joint.

    Attitude is ultimately the edge that makes you winners or also rans and it seems like we have turned a corner. You wouldn't want to slip back into a comfort zone, there's much to do in the coming months and every game will be a final (as true as that has ever been).
  31. Feb 17, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    He didn't rebuke his players. Firstly, he was answering a question from a journalist. His players weren't anywhere nearby. Secondly, he was explaining why the first half performance was bad, not criticising anyone.

    He wasn't seething. He was calm, as he usually is in press conferences.

    Journos are shameless.

    Here's the press conference:
  32. Feb 17, 2017

    Treble_Winning New Member

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    Mourinho is known to be tolerant of certain 'jokers' like Zlatan and Drogba in the past. Those two are probably his favourite players. I wonder what has gotten into him lately. If he wants 11 Roy Keane type players the dressing room will be very boring and no one will actually enjoy playing football. There is no need to deliver the hairdryer treatment at HT or FT or whatever, when your team has just won 3-0. We all need to lighten up a little bit ffs. If our players behaved like machines and stopped enjoying themselves and started hating football, then we would have even more reason to worry.

    Besides, no dressing room can accommodate 11 Roy Keanes. There would be frequent bust-ups and arguments, and the team would get a red card every other game. A recipe for disaster. Teams need to have a mix of personalities and that includes one or two jokers who can liven up the mood. Pogba seems to be one of these light-hearted types, that doesn't make him any less of a professional IMO. We need to be more tolerant of our own players FFS.
  33. Feb 17, 2017

    RedPed Full Member

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    Absolutely spot on. Loved Jose's comments about not being able to choose competitions as this is Man United. Yeah we didn't want to be in the Europa League but at least he's going to give it due respect and try to win it. I loved how he said that if we keep winning our games it's going to get complicated come the end of the season but that's how it is...we'll just deal with it. All these negative whiners who moan about the cups can feck off!
  34. Feb 17, 2017

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

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    That's why I always watch the press conferences, rather than rely on media reporting of them. So much of what Mourinho has said this season has been blown out of proportion.

    The worst incident was when he jokingly said his life in Manchester was a disaster, due to the paparazzi. A comment he made with a big smile on his face. The media somehow turned that into Jose hates Manchester and is living in a hotel cos he wants to quit?! It's utterly mad.
  35. Feb 17, 2017

    RedPed Full Member

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    I remember the time a few years back when one journo asked Joe Hart a loaded question about the team's performance (can't remember the game). The same journo then twisted Hart's comments and put them to Mancini who was visibly perplexed. I thought then you scummy bastard. He knew exactly what he was doing and got the desired response from Mancini who was not happy with Hart had said....even though he never actually meant it in the context alluded to by the journo.
  36. Feb 17, 2017

    Moby Dick

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    This kind of treatment really is necessary if we don't want to become another Arsenal and let terrible soft attitudes become a regularity in the team, something which the last two managers have in some way or the other allowed to be acceptable. It might get a bit strict at times but the first and foremost thing a club like United has to have is everyone giving their absolute 100% and being held accountable if they are taking things for granted. Be it through dropping them or pointing the problems in the dressing room or the presser, but it's a rather delicate situation that cannot be allowed to continue.

    Just watching Arsenal against Bayern, I would have thrown a few things if I was an Arsenal fan. Forget about the result, the attitude of some of those players, and something that isn't new in that club, is absolutely pathetic for a highly paid professional footballer. That place is such a celebrity club at the moment where players come to live in London, earn a good payday, enjoy parties, and hardly ever show the right attitude on the pitch especially when the chips are down. We've had a few poor teams over the years but under Fergie you wouldn't ever think of a player showing carelessness on the pitch and getting away with it. Not that that's their only problem but it has definitely become a trend at that club for the last few years and that should never come anywhere near our club.

    Especially in the current generations where there's no shortage of absolute divas in football and players who are paid big money and huge wages can just coast their way on the pitch while paying more attention to their lives off the pitch. They need to be kept in line, at least at United. If they want that kind of a lifestyle they can go elsewhere but at United a standard of discipline is paramount. Reminds me of a Giggs interview where he talked about that famous incident when him and Sharpe were out partying all night before an important game and Fergie busted them at their house when they were still partying and had 'friends' over. Fergie absolutely banned them from going out during important days and Giggs thanks him for teaching him that discipline to this day and what it added to his career. That's something I'd prefer to see, and if there's someone who wants to object, no matter how big a name they are, they can play elsewhere where that is acceptable.

    The position at which we are as a club, we need absolutely complete concentration and dedication of the entire squad to regain our place in the league and Europe, it's really easy to slip away and become another Liverpool who are still basking in the glory they had when few of our players weren't even born but to continue to be competitive especially in the league that is PL, such lapses in concentration are unforgivable. And I appreciate the manager bringing it to the attention of the fans, if we are giving our full support to this squad and completely backing them on all fronts, we deserve a basic level of responsibility in return.
  37. Feb 17, 2017

    notcool Full Member

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    Perhaps we should watch the post-match conferences as a community, as well as the pre-match ones.
  38. Feb 17, 2017

    dichinero Full Member

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    No qualms with José identifying the lack of "professionalism" but what were the manager and coaching staff doing while they happened? Give the players stick and a kick up the backside if necessary but if José and his team identified "unseriousness" during the warm up and dressing room, why didn't he address the situation? Isn't that the manager's job?

    I don't know but it feels like Jose's mo these days is to use the media to do his job for him and that can't be good. "Misbehaving" on two occasions before a European tie is something that should be nipped in bud ASAP behind the scenes.
  39. Feb 17, 2017

    Shinehead Dred Full Member

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    Cheers for posting the video and I totally agree with your comments. As per usual a journo has decided to use their own interpretation and decided to rewrite the "facts" about what and whom Mourinho was referring to. The journalist writes:

    "Rio Ferdinand was recently very critical of Paul Pogba and Jesse Lingard's antics after videos posted online and Mourinho is clearly of the same mind.

    Pogba going up against his older brother, Florentin, appeared to represent a distraction in the build-up. United's boss gave his team a severe rollicking when one goal up at half-time."


    These aren't Mourinho's words. At no point did he name Pogba or Lingard. In fact he uses the example of Bailley's sloppy play early doors as the indicator for his concern. All this journo has done is use the old Rio criticism piece and arbitrarily decided (for the benefit of his narrative) that Mourinho "clearly" agrees with him. I mean where is the evidence that this is the case? I'm confused (well not really) as to why people have decided to use this as a way to vent their spleens at Pogba and Lingard in particular.

    I think that he wants the whole team switched on from the beginning of games, and not to get complacent or underestimate their opponents.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  40. Feb 17, 2017

    RedPed Full Member

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    Do managers come out of the changing room and just casually say to anyone listening "I've just given that lot in there a good old rollicking!". Or do these journos get unlimited behind the scenes access??

    I sometimes wonder where they get their 'information' from.