Jose Mourinho | 2017/18 Assessments

Discussion in 'Player Performances Forum' started by Suedesi, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Aug 9, 2017
    #1

    Suedesi Full Member

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    Real Madrid - Manchester United 2:1

    The result flattered United, as Real easily dominated the match, hit the bar twice and were out of sight by the time we woke up. United got into the game after a Navas blunder.

    Mourinho tried to park a bus tonight and his emphasis on high defensive work rates, physically imposing players, long ball and crossing to big strikers was completely negated by smaller but more technical players who are comfortable dribbling and moving the ball around. We can do a job in the PL, but won't threaten anyone in the CL. This was a demonstration how big that gap to Europe's elite is.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  2. Aug 9, 2017
    #2

    Sammyjunn Full Member

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    Have been saying it for time, but with signing Matic/Lukaku, targeting Perisic after already signing Pogba, Bailly, Zlatan, it looks like Mou wants to build a very physical side who are decent (not great) on the ball and tactically. That will take us further in the PL than it will in Europe I fear.
  3. Aug 9, 2017
    #3

    Womp Full Member

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    They're the best team in the World and it's not even really close as they've just about steam rolled everyone.

    It's true there's a gap between us and Europe's elite but I'd say that for just about every team in England. The premier league in general is lagging behind.

    I don't think anyone genuinely expected us to win the CL this season. A proper title challenge and getting to a respectable stage of the CL would be a step in the right direction. We don't have the squad to win the CL. We've got one, maybe two truly world class players. The rest is either potential, decent or poor.
  4. Aug 9, 2017
    #4

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    Not good enough so far, he hasn't done whats expected of him. We look no closer to Europe's elite now than we were under LVG, and that's where we ought to be.
  5. Aug 9, 2017
    #5

    VancouverUtdFan Full Member

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    Joined this forum not too long ago but even from prior time having spent viewing the boards, this place tends to be very gloom and doom and that's an understatement lol. Overreactions here are cringeworthy tbh :nervous:

    ...this RM team is without question the best team in the world and the best opponent United have faced in 5+ years. We were expected to lose but held our own. There were periods of good stretches and bad. First 10 minutes good. Next 50 or so minutes bad. Remainder of the game good. It's really a matter of chemistry+consistency and it's obvious RM and their starters would click more being pretty much the same squad as last year whereas United were playing newcomers while experimenting with a new formation. A bit rusty as expected whereas a world class team like Madrid were fluid and swift. United just need that time period to adjust and gel. We were really just 1 Rashford finish away from heading into extra time/penalties and who knows, it'd have been a toss up from there.

    Biggest takeaway was the fight the team showed. The way Madrid played out the 1st half was quite draining and demoralizing but the players showed great heart coming out in the 2nd half with a purpose and urgency. That's really all we could've hoped for heading into the match so definitely appreciate that effort and adjustment. Shows the team will claw back and not just hang their heads amongst some of the best teams in the world. More so of a learning experience than anything, specifically having that winning mentality of not giving up even when you're expected to lose as underdogs. Will be huge as the team continues to transition and José will continue to drill it into them; it's about creating that winning culture/mentality until the finishing pieces are there (the Griezmann's and starting LBs etc etc of the world) and then the team will skyrocket having already experienced and learnt that all.

    Fwiw other than De Gea, Matic was easily our best player today. Such a simple yet effective player. Seems to always be at the right places at the right time while making the right reads and plays. What an addition :drool:
  6. Aug 9, 2017
    #6

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    I missed the game yesterday but how did we set up? Well balanced with as much adventurous as one can be against a better team, or negative defensive shit with us sitting extremely deep?

    I know Madrid are a very good side but let's not pretend as if teams didn't really get to them and threaten them big time in la liga last year. A lot of their wins came through late winners rather than complete dominance. Plenty of la liga teams were brave against them and matched them only to be beaten due to Madrids squad strength (with really good squad players often making the difference).
  7. Aug 9, 2017
    #7

    TrustInJanuzai Full Member

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    Great post and agree that this place is all doom and gloom with very little optimism and hope. Think your assessment of the game is fair and I saw it the exact same way. I think my only concern was that yet again we didn't take big chances at the other end and I really hope that doesn't carry into the season or we are gonna lack goals again. For all the talk of how much Madrid dominated, pogba should have made it 2-1 and rashford missed a glorious chance for 2-2. We are still a couple short of being a top team but not as far away as people make it out.
  8. Aug 9, 2017
    #8

    ManuMou New Member

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    This. Agree 95% of the post.

    What's more, about the bolded text, not just "last year", it should be "past few years" (core players)
  9. Aug 9, 2017
    #9

    ManuMou New Member

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    It doesn't work that way.

    Overall, Real had 6 big chances, United had 3 big chances (4 big chances if you include Pogba's). But of course you need to factor in "quality of the chance" and "conversion rate". Both of their quality of chance and conversion rate are better than ours.

    From this perspective, undeniably Real totally outclassed us today.
  10. Aug 9, 2017
    #10

    LoneStar Full Member

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    I don't think anyone expected us to dominate them and beat them. This is a side which has won 3 of the last 4 CL titles. I struggle to think of any position where they don't have world class players (GK is the only one I can think of).

    There are plenty of positives to take from this. Matic held his own against their midfield and looks class. We fought back till the end. Fellaini can be unplayable at times, he was one of the main reasons we fought back so well.

    Pogba though, was disappointing again in a big game. Tries to complicate stuff unnecessarily. Jose will have to coach him with that. Also the kind of service Lukaku gets in games like this is concerning.

    What Jose is doing is building a team that can compete in and win the PL. And I totally agree. We need to be challenging for and win the PL first, and then concentrate on becoming as good as the elite teams. I think we have a good enough team to actually win the league, or atleast stay in the race till the very end.
  11. Aug 9, 2017
    #11

    Nevilles.Wear.Prada Full Member

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    Note to self :- stay clear of all reactionary match threads post lost.
    Amen!
  12. Aug 9, 2017
    #12

    Treble Full Member

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    Make or breake season for Jose. Generally, his second season at a club has been his best. Going by his record, if he doesn't win something big this season, that will be that.

    Personally, I have a lot of reservations about building a team from tall and physically imposing players. There is a reason why the greatest teams barey feature very tall players. The costs of having such players often outweigh the benefits, particularly against top top teams.
  13. Aug 9, 2017
    #13

    Z_Wolf New Member

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    Clearly, we're no where near RM or any of the top dogs in Europe for that matter. That shouldn't come as a surprise nor is it embarrassing.

    However, the lack of composure and creativity around the box is somewhat concerning. Too often our players take the easy choice of playing it wide and putting it in the mixer. It's hopefull football and when compared to the slick football the likes of Madrid produce it shows how far we still have to go.

    We're also too reactive for my liking. We were letting Madrid players penetrate into our box without much pressure and they were causing us all sorts of problems. It almost looked like we had no midfield. These days, even the most defensive teams start pressing atleast at midfield.

    There were some positives though tbf. The fact that we pulled a goal back and improved our football in the second half shows the mentality of the team is strong and shows when we take the initiative to attack, we can do damage to any team.
  14. Aug 9, 2017
    #14

    devilish Phil Neville's #1 fan

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    I disagree. We're way better off then when we were under LVG. The old players/LVG mates are gone (Rooney, Bastian, Valdes), we signed some excellent players (Bailly, Matic etc) and we're playing better football. It takes time to clear up the mess SAF (later years), Moyes and LVG left let alone go toe to toe with Real Madrid. However, Im confident we're in the right direction
  15. Aug 9, 2017
    #15

    K2K Full Member

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    "Can Manchester United score? They always score"
    We are not as good as the two time defending European champions having failed to make the top 3 in our own league in 4 years?

    What a an abomination. If Jose doesn't win the quadruple this year after all the money we have spent under Moyes, Van Gaal and himself, he has to walk.
  16. Aug 9, 2017
    #16

    K2K Full Member

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    "Can Manchester United score? They always score"
    We didn't really setup defensively at all.

    In fact in the first 15, we looked very comfortable and spent more time in the Madrid half. But then they stepped it up a notch and they simply outplayed us. Midfield of Kroos and Modric meant that we were basically chasing shadows in 30 degree plus heat . Came back and scored a second but then we really fought back hard.

    Lukaku missed a guilt edged chance. Then made up for it a few minutes later. Rashford missed yet another 1 on 1 which he should have scored. We r3ally forced it but just couldn't get the second. Overall balance of play, they were the better side, but we have a good account of ourselves.

    Herrera and Pogba were shocking but Fellaini did very well when he came on. Matic was pure class. Both in defense and attack.
  17. Aug 9, 2017
    #17

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    We started brightly. Pressing them and in general, getting good openings in attack.

    But then we eased off and they got in a groove. We barely pressed. Barely strung 2-3 passes together. Lukaku very isolated. Pinned deep in our box.

    For a while, it was very reminiscent of the 2011 CL final.

    We did better in the 2nd half towards the end, but you could attribute that to Real easing off too.
  18. Aug 9, 2017
    #18

    BULB New Member

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    Need to cut Jose a bit of slack on this one, for decades to come this will be looked at as a golden era for RM/Barca that will inevitably decline.
    Lets not forget they beat the second best team in Europe 4-1 in the CL final.

    I'd love to see how we stack up against Bayern or Juve.

    One thing is clear, if you try to take RM or Barca on 'head to head', they will destroy you. Looked much better playing a more direct approach.
  19. Aug 9, 2017
    #19

    Phil Osophy Full Member

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    The same garbage than last season against good opposition. Before they scored the first goal we had all our team under the goal posts, just clearing the ball away and conceding attacks one after another. Review the match thread and you'll see that everyone thought it was predictable and we were getting destroyed.

    http://www.redcafe.net/matches/real-madrid-vs-manchester-united.175/discussion?page=29

    The team improved in the second half with nothing to lose but in overall was such a coward and uninspiring performance, with the same negative patterns that we saw last season in this kind of games.
  20. Aug 9, 2017
    #20

    Adisa Full Member

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    My problem is, we will use the same tactics against teams not even as good as Madrid.
    We won't win many big games and I've made my peace with it.
  21. Aug 9, 2017
    #21

    AXVnee7 Full Member

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    I have no qualms about playing this way against Madrid, and if we meet them again in the CL then I'd expect Jose to pull out the same approach.

    However there's no one in the league even remotely close to Madrid. There's absolutely no excuse to take such a negative approach against any team, unless we are significantly hampered by injuries.
  22. Aug 9, 2017
    #22

    Unmutual Full Member

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    It was the same old story last night. Solid, plenty of fight, but whether due to coaching or personnel, we just don't seem able to counter attack effectively and our ball retention under pressure is poor.

    I don't expect us to go toe to toe with Real, or boss possession. But if we're going to sit back and concede ground we need to counter attack intelligently. We still need to be good on the ball to bring it out of defence quickly and support our attackers. And we still need to alleviate pressure with a bit of possession under pressure from time to time.

    Instead we resort to hoofing it out more often than not, which means the ball just comes back at us. So the defence ends up under long spells of pressure, and up front we hardly trouble the opposition at all.

    Big worry is that these were problems last season and based on pre-season so far, they haven't been cracked yet.
  23. Aug 9, 2017
    #23

    dichinero Full Member

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    Against West Ham is where it all starts for me but unfortunately I don't see us playing like a team that has spent over £300m in 12 months and managed by the so called 'Special One'.

    I'd really like us to be more proactive and fluid this year.

    Time will tell. No more excuses
  24. Aug 9, 2017
    #24

    Trigg aka Trippin_Stoned

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    Finally some common sense on here! Good post.
  25. Aug 9, 2017
    #25

    ManuMou New Member

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    All else being equal, some people do not factor in team chemistry.

    Last season, more often than not, especially our attackers, Jose kept switching players. I am not saying that I want Jose to stick with same players all the time. My point is, all else being equal, from a lack of team chemistry standpoint, that was also one of the reasons that our attack was so weak. One obvious example is that, at times, our attacker just passed the ball to nobody (expecting someone to run towards the ball). You rarely, rarely see this happen with Real/Barca with consistent attackers of MSN/BBC.

    Hopefully this season, Jose will have "more consistency" in choosing his starting XI, that will definitely help build up the team chemistry.

    In a 4-3-3, I think the caf's consensus is

    ------------------Lukaku------------
    Martial/Rashford-----------Mkhi---
    ------------Pogba---Herrera--------
    -------------------Matic-------------

    The one position that lacks of consensus is LW. Whether it is Martial or Rashford @ LW, give them all some time to gel together, and then judge. Team chemistry doesn't come in a day. It takes some time.

    Thoughts ?
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
  26. Aug 9, 2017
    #26

    Siorac Full Member

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    He has to improve the quality of the football and the Premier League performance massively. There's no Europa League to paper over the cracks with unconvincing wins against poor opposition this time (unless we fail in the CL group stage of course, then he might be able to fall back on that again).

    I'm not optimistic because very little suggests significant improvement compared to last season but hopefully I'm wrong.
  27. Aug 9, 2017
    #27

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    I like Jose but damn do I wish he had more bravery, we're Manchester fecking United not West Bromwich Albion.
  28. Aug 9, 2017
    #28

    Craig Ward Full Member

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    We didn't play with any composure, and left Lukaku too isolated, our supporting forwards didn't offer much, especially Lingard.

    Our workrate, press was good. We have a much better fighting spirit than we've had for a while which is good to see. We need to be more fluid up front, our decision making is atrocious in the final 3rd. Rashford and Martial are our danger players, they run at people and have bags of pace, they need to play.

    Another big game that passed Pogba by I'm afraid, if you look at Kroos and Modric, that's exactly what 90million should get you. He needs to be coached and learn the game a bit more to realise his potential, he's so average looking with these types of performances.

    Overall, I think we'll have a good season. We will challenge for the premier, Europe we will possibly struggle.

    Last night was a good test, Madrid all bar 1 change (Bale for Ronaldo) was they're x11 for the champions league final. They are far superior than anyone in Europe at the minute and run us ragged in spells which was to be expected.

    Few twerks, better decisions and getting Lingard off for Rashford or Martial and we'd have come away with something
  29. Aug 9, 2017
    #29

    Gbenger New Member

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    The back 3 yesterday was really a stupid idea and we got getting heavily dominated with little chance to score proves it.

    We only got better after switching to a back four and bringing Fellani in that we even managed to a score a goal only reinforces that fact. That probably should've been the game plan all along.

    Mourinho probably played it because he wanted to accommodate average players with workrate like Lingard as wing back and a back 3 enables him to do just that but it back fired massively; Lingard was the first to come off.
  30. Aug 9, 2017
    #30

    JohnnyKills Full Member

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    Agreed.

    United should never resort to lumping the ball to a big target man with half an hour to go. It's a cowardly tactic and if Mourinho isn't capable of anything more imaginative, he should walk.
  31. Aug 9, 2017
    #31

    MDFC Manager Full Member

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    Big season coming up for him. We simply have to challenge for the title this season.
  32. Aug 9, 2017
    #32

    Lowkey Full Member

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    The season has not even started yet and the doom and gloom has already kicked in. Real Madrid are leaps and bounds ahead of us. Jose will be judged on this season. I didn't think we were that bad yesterday. I was disappointed that Martial did not play as he really should be in the starting 11 over Rashford and Lingard.

    So far, a good pre-season and should be ready to go for Sunday
  33. Aug 9, 2017
    #33

    SATA Full Member

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    I can finally understand why Real and Barca usually spank the cannon fodder teams in La Liga. They are just too good in a league of their own

    Nothing to be ashamed of really. Jose knows he won't be facing a side like that again till the CL knockout rounds if we get to that
  34. Aug 9, 2017
    #34

    abdo99 New Member

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    We might play Madrid again in the group stages because they won La Liga last season.
  35. Aug 9, 2017
    #35

    AshRK Full Member

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    Really proud of the effort. Actually if not for our finishing (again) we could have won the tie. Some encouraging things were to be seen. I am happy jose is a pragmatic manager and understands the situation of the game. We will be fine going forward this season.
  36. Aug 9, 2017
    #36

    Grande Full Member

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    Ferguson, when succesful, was the same.
  37. Aug 9, 2017
    #37

    vi1lain caf sexpert

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    Great post, hopefully you don't lose your rational thinking like the rest of these drama queens on here.

    Welcome!
  38. Aug 9, 2017
    #38

    meninred New Member

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    The positives of the team is we have athletic and physically fit players in Pogba, lukaku, valenica,rashford ,fellani..etc. What we need is a few more players who are mobile/agile, fast and creative players.
  39. Aug 9, 2017
    #39

    JoaquinJoaquin Full Member

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    There was alot of positives to be took from last night so some of the doom and gloom in here is madness. We won't play anyone as good all season most likely. Matic looks like a great addition and will help alot in the league.

    What I will say, is what I have said for 6 months in that Jose leaves a lot to be desired in his selection process. His blind loyalty to Lingard is costing us and he doesn't seem to want to remedy it. He isn't a fan of Martial it seems and games like last night he should of brought him on at the very least.

    Still, I think we are going in the right direction and I am fully behind him.
  40. Aug 9, 2017
    #40

    Phil Jones 79 Full Member

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    We are still well short in the final 3rd and I cannot understand why that has not been addressed in the summer. Our failure to score goals cost us last season and will again this season. We have no orthodox wingers. Only 2 strikers, one of whom is still very young and inconsistent