Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by charlenefan, Nov 3, 2018.
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Just watched this 20 mins ago. Spoke about being set up to hide our weaknesses last term.
This was obvious. We are a boxer with nice hands and a glass chin so until lately our trainer had us fight turtled up and fight at a distance. Now we are trading shots in the pocket and we are getting tagged a lot and often. Opening up a bit more has exposed our soft centre.
He's said this consistently but no fecker has listened.
With the current personnel in our defence, if they have to defend high or in 1 v 1 situations they are exposed as being what they are- average defenders. Most of them are very poor on the ball too, which means the whole team has to drop deep to start attacks. The back 4 is uncomfortable spreading out and being left in 1 v 1 spaces.
Thats why our coach wanted some new defenders bought if we were to improve the style of play and improve the team. These were not forthcoming.
He's set up the team to press higher and the team to be less compact and it has generally led to worse results. Something Mourinho expected I presume but the demand for a change of style meant he's gone through with it anyway.
Thanks for your time.
But, but he bought Lindelof! Lets solely blame him blarghh
While this is true, he has bought two centre-backs and has had ample opportunity to move on the ones he didn't want which would have freed up some funds. Yes, managers don't always get it right, but when you're a manager who is known for his ability to both improve and identify defenders, signing one who is constantly injured/erratic and another who up until a few games ago was completely written off isn't good enough.
You know he doesn't sell our players? That's one of the things most certainly not on the manager. I doubt there's many interested with the wages they're on
I don't think you can blame the manager for failing to sell players, unlike Fergie Mourinho has no say so in the prices players are sold for and our board couldn't even shift Darmian who half of serie A wanted due to our demands
We tried to shift out Darmian to Serie A and Rojo to Everton in summer though, but no one was agreeing to meet the demands we asked for Darmian and in Rojo's case, Everton weren't ready to pay his wages and he refused a pay cut. That's why we shouldn't spread insane wages on everyone in the team as it'll make it a struggle to get rid of them later on.
Certain people wont like this at all...
You obviously having no understanding of how football management works, it is not not Jose's job to sell players it's the director of football or in our case Woodward job, secondly as for signing an injured player thats down to the club doctors aka medical staff, or whoever does the medical.Linderof will be a good signing, it's the pace of the premier that he was struggling with.
If Woodward got his fingers out he could of sold Rojo to Everton and also moved on Jones in the summer, Fred was not needed, niether was Sanchez. That money could of being used to get a rigt winger and use Rashford as a cover for Lukaku.
Why is this a thread? Was this not blatantly obvious to everyone?
Yeah Mou we are scoring for fun due to this massive attacking change to our system.
Funny in last years defensive system we had already scored 22 goals after 9 matches, plus we had a GD of +18 .
Mourinho and his fecking bullshit is just that.
Actually we havent done it (thats not to say Jose hasnt instrcutrd us to) When we have actually pressed higher and been more attacking we have looked the better side in the games we played.
Spurs (first half), Chelsea (2nd half), Today Second half etc
Today for example we certainly were not pressing high properly in the first half. We looked like we were happy to contain the other side first half before we conceeded.
This was also evident last season. The other problem this season was not having an inform attacker. Up stepped Martial of recent
Woodward not being able to flog Darmian says it all. Everyone knew he was surplus to requirements. Darmian did. Mourinho did. It's total incompetence on Woodward's part. It's not Mourinho's job to negotiate a move away for a player.
And it comes back to the same old dicussion abotu Woodward knowing nothing about football, being shit at that side of his job and that we need some more help on the football side in the boardroom.
Pretty obvious, last term we protected the shite at the back, Jose gets battered for lack of attacking play, so plays with more freedom and then gets slated for our defence being crap. And all this despite him trying to buy some quality defenders in the summer!! To add insult to injury he permitted the sale of probably all of the crap we have at the back but we couldn’t get shut of them due to the wages they’re on. I mean who in their right mind would give Smalling £100k per week !!? I maintain he sighned Lindelof as one for the future and Bailly as a prospect (ok hasn’t worked out upto now), but you don’t get quality centre backs for £35m.
Until we dig deep and pay the prices that Liverpool and city have paid for their quality centre back acquisitions, nothing is going to change.
Mourinho has literally said the plan was to press high today. Bournemouth pinned us back to due a lack of quality of our behalf and good play by them. And when that happens we're at sixes and sevens because our defence was exposed. Look at how many 2nd balls they won in that first 30 minutes, it felt like every single one. That's not managerial instruction.
The ridiculous wages is also something i hope a dof would clamp down on. we payer high wages even for our useless players and agreed to pay sanchez what arsenal wouldnt entertain ( and they should know his worth better)
Where did I say it was? Jose also said the team didnt do what he asked
The point is we have always looked better when we press higher
That was us pressing high though. Bournemouth just won all the second balls and passed through to easy. The team wasn't compact.
It's good to hear we are setting up to play more front foot football, but we actually scored more while conceding significantly fewer goals by this point last year with that very same defense...
I don't know at what point you start to think "hang on... Is he really in charge of transfers in a way that he can be directly blamed for them?..." he's tried to sell a bunch of fan favourites and that is completely at odds with buying players that clearly don't make sense for his profile. I'm happy to accept that Bailly is one of his buys because that makes sense, Lindelof not so much.
The water at the very least is still so muddy that I am not even sure about anything anymore and can't just throw blame around about players as he clearly requested one and was denied by the board. So who fecking knows?
So we should be more defensive?
Highlights that Matic is the problem not giving the right defensive stability as a DM in a team that is made to attack.
While we all loved 4-0 United let's not forget how many of those 4-0's were done so by very late flurry's of goals
That'll suck some of you in.
It's total rubbish based on the naked eye. I'd be stunned if it's supported via stats. For example, average position of players on pitch, distance covered, shots on goal, possession in the final third etc. Those will be rubbish, I envisage.
Classic Mourinho misdirection of the truth. We're no more attacking now than we were last season. In general, we're still poor at it.
Maybe or maybe he's not asked to play the DM role, that would certainly make a lot more sense
And Bailly, he’s spent £70m and our defence looks worse than ever.
Mourinho said we were more defensive last year. That doesn’t mean we are still not defensive. We were just more defensive last year. Emphasise on “more”.
We are not an attacking side, we still try to adjust our game to every opponent, Both weaker and stronger. We don’t try to impose our style of play on anyone. Becuase mourinho is a reactionary manager. He tries to find ways around how the opponent plays instead of developing ways for our team to always push the opponent back. That’s why we suffer when the plan fails to materialise. That’s why we start games on the defensive waiting to see what the opponent does before we respond.
This is not Manchester United. This is not our tradition. There are times when you have to adopt because the opponent is probably too strong. But with mourinho we allow every team to play , both weaker and stronger teams.
Nah, just noting that although we are supposedly more attack minded we haven't actually scored any more goals. I still find the disparity in the goals conceded stat to be a bit extreme considering its the same unit.
This is true, the cohesion of our attack has mostly looked the same in the good games and bad games.
I think now that Lukaku and Sanchez are no longer undroppable (I hope) we may see a difference in that regard though.
Its possible the defenders he signed we're not his first choice also ?
I'm still amazed some people take Mourinho at face value. The man is rarely ever sincere.
It seems we should go back to last year's approach because we were scoring more and conceding less.
For the large part of last season we were playing a 4231, with four attacking players - mainly Mhki or Lingard in the hole.
This year he's dabbled with 3 at the back and chucking Fellaini and Matic in front and back 4.
The only times we've actually played attacking football is when we've gone a goal down after playing passive rubbish. Ironically then we look a lot more solid because we actually win the ball higher up the pitch and our defenders aren't as busy.
The only player who was doing any sort of pressing in the first half was Fred, the rest of the team were camped deep in their own half almost praying for the chance to counter. It was until midway through the second period that the team began to press high up the pitch and that was only because we were going after the winner.
It's been the story of our season to date. The Spurs game aside, we only seem to find the energy to press when the team is either a goal behind or chasing a winner.
Jose is basically lying in that interview. Shock horror.
I really dont get Mourinhos point. If the plan all along was to switch to a more offensive style then it was complete malpractice to spend that much money on Matic and Lukaku and pretty much rely on those two to be the spine of the team together with Mike. Its not the base of a team that will ever be able to stand high and press in the PL or any league for that matter. I dont really see how one can blame Woodward for this.
Tell me one club willing to pay Darmians wages .
Whats worrying is how Jose has managed to convince people that Utd's defence is mediocre and the cause for the dire football we play. Funnily enough we seem to be able to play attacking football at will with the same personnel. Very strange indeed.
I would imagine Jose planned to bring in someone in the summer who would have allowed him to relax the protection on the defence. The signing of Fred who was brought in to help speed us up in midfield amongst other things indicated this was the plan.
On top of that we've got 3 out of 4 of our attacking players out of form but we've clearly moved the focus away from defence first.
The mistake made by the club in not signing a CB will need to be rectified. Their failure to offload players will also need to be rectified.
You didn't have to look far to see another manager playing much better football with Karius, Lovren, Matip and Alexander Arnold for most of last season at the back. Blame deflection.
Why spunk 60 million + on centre backs then?
Why not just target one experienced, world class centre back for the same kind of money?
It’s not all on Jose. But he is partly to blame for us being where we are.
And you don't have to stop there but its a great example
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