Jose Mouriniho’s seven-point plan for winning big games

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by BusbyMalone, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. Feb 1, 2018
    #1

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    I’m not sure of the veracity of these claims, but I’ve read it numerous times. The Guardian done a piece on it two or three years ago and it’s been in other publications, but it’s basically seven principles that Jose lives by when it comes to the bigger games.

    They were first published in a biography of his by Diego Torres. So anyway, here’s the seven principles:


    1) The game is won by the team who commits fewer errors.

    2) Football favours whoever provokes more errors in the opposition.

    3) Away from home, instead of trying to be superior to the opposition, it’s better to encourage their mistakes.

    4) Whoever has the ball is more likely to make a mistake.

    5) Whoever renounces possession reduces the possibility of making a mistake.

    6) Whoever has the ball has fear.

    7) Whoever does not have it is thereby stronger.



    Now, as i said, i don’t know if these are true, but reading through them and watching us it’s hard to argue with them tbh.

    The one’s in bold are a particular worry for me and seem to match up with what we see on the pitch in a lot of these games. These principles seem to encourage the sort of passive football that we see in many of the bigger games, and the sort of football i personally dislike and i know many others do.

    Point 3 is also pertinent. Away from home we often opt for the passive approach as opposed to taking our game to the opposition. Sometimes that’s obviously the correct approach and depends on who you’re playing, but it often leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. Obviously the Liverpool match comes to mind. The result was great, but the performance was...well, not so great.

    Anyway, to give him some credit, i do think we have tried to take our game to the opposition in some of these bigger away matches recently, so i don’t think he’s as married to these ideals has he once was - we just happen to play very poor.



    Be interested to see what you guys think. Are they outdated? Is there still a place in the modern game for a big team to employ these tactics? And what do you think of them overall?
  2. Feb 1, 2018
    #2

    LennonNL nipple flasher and door destroyer

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  3. Feb 1, 2018
    #3

    TsuWave Full Member

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    IMO those are terrible principles if true
  4. Feb 1, 2018
    #4

    Bastian Full Member

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    Surely that is BS.
  5. Feb 1, 2018
    #5

    The Firestarter Full Member

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    They are not terrible per say, but they are not principles suitable for a big team. The same principles were used by Greece to win Euro 2004.
  6. Feb 1, 2018
    #6

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    Point 5,6 and 7 are fundamentally flawed and why we look a worse team than we are in big games.
    In Mourinho's time here, we've only played to our full capacity in one big game...that was against Chelsea.
    The ironic thing is on that day, we were weakened by injuries.
    There's no doubt in my mind that the team we put out in yesterday's game was at least as good as spurs if not better.
  7. Feb 1, 2018
    #7

    GBBQ Full Member

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    The points definitely match the way we set up in big games but we stumbled on point 1 too many times for to be able to prove the rest of the steps.
  8. Feb 1, 2018
    #8

    C3Pique Full Member

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    They'e fine principles for Porto or Inter. But with the resources of Manchester United, there's no excuse for being outplayed.
  9. Feb 1, 2018
    #9

    Jagga7 Full Member Scouse Lover

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    :lol::lol: Modern day Art of War by Maureen.

    6) Whoever has the ball has fear.

    7) Whoever does not have it is thereby stronger.

    Teams are so terrified they just want to keep the ball! The real men wait to pounce.
  10. Feb 1, 2018
    #10

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    They are fine principles for whoever has the worse players.
    Going into a game with the perception you are inferior to the opponent becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
  11. Feb 1, 2018
    #11

    Camilo Full Member

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    Never mind the fans, I can't imagine many players wanting to play in a system like this - a system which basically says "we're shite, lets stop them from winning". Pogba coming here was a big deal, but I don't think he'll wait around long if this is how we keep playing. Second season now, if it continues he won't be here come the start of the 2019 season I'd bet.

    I'm sure most of the points are true, although obviously it's more of an idea rather than a written out set of rules! Jose is doing a lot of good, but big teams are half attitude, half ability, and our attitude is all wrong. We play like we're a small team, and that should change.
  12. Feb 1, 2018
    #12

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    5,6 and 7 are laughable. Surely he can’t beleive this, it has to be a wind up.
    Actually 1 and 2 are also laughable but for a different reason because all it deserves is a no s£!t Sherlock.

    Would rather we were a team that forced mistakes other than passively sit and wait for them.
  13. Feb 1, 2018
    #13

    Andrew~ Squiggle

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    I don't think someone as intelligent as Jose could believe that. You would have to be a genuine idiot to have those kinds of views.
  14. Feb 1, 2018
    #14

    Dir Wangem Banned

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    Sounds like desperate "journalism" to me.
  15. Feb 1, 2018
    #15

    TheRedDevil'sAdvocate Full Member

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    You're reading too much into it. If the aforementioned book is the "Special One: The Dark Side", it's not exactly a biography but a rather negative narration of his three seasons at Real Madrid. Torres doesn't even give him any credit for winning La Liga and turning RM into CL contenders again. Just think that a more accurate English translation of the title would be "stay ready to lose" or something similar and you'll get the general idea behind the book.

    They're not Mourinho quotes but Torres' claims after watching Pep vs Jose in Spain. Everyone and his dog knows that Jose is a risk-averse manager but to really believe that he pins a long screed on the front door of the training centre where he works, you really have to be naive.

    But hey, this is the Caf. Feel free to turn it into another 20-page bashing of the manager.
  16. Feb 1, 2018
    #16

    adexkola Arsenal supporter Verified Moaner City Lover

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    I've seen those principles in a few articles from Jonathan Wilson. Claims they were articulated as such while Jose was in Madrid.
  17. Feb 1, 2018
    #17

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    I'm sorry but 5,6,7 make no sense whatsoever
  18. Feb 1, 2018
    #18

    MDFC Manager Full Member

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    Yes, but so is Mourinho's actual plan as well.
  19. Feb 1, 2018
    #19

    Cait Sith Full Member

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    The man has "footballistically" grown up in the Barcelona football environment as Bobby Robson's and LVG's assistant. His hate for possession, pressing and positional play contradicts every single principle of what he grew up in. That and his digs in the following years against Rijkaard, Pep, Barca and even LVG reek of a son who never got the respect he felt he deserved from his father and wants out of his shadow by doing the complete opposite to spite him. There are some psychological reasons there why he coaches how he coaches, no doubt.
  20. Feb 1, 2018
    #20

    The United Full Member

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    People are laughing at this shit now.

    I think it was posted a year ago or so and many in that thread was hailing as some kind of genius plan.

    You don't even have to know much of the sport to know how ridiculous some of them are.

    Let alone a manager like Jose.
  21. Feb 1, 2018
    #21

    Rossa Full Member

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    On paper, our team is stronger than Spurs, no doubt.

    I believe Pep's plan is that he who dictates play is less prone to chance. By keeping the ball, you are not subjected to deflected shots etc that sometimes happen. Mourinho, if this is true, seems to think that if you invite the opposition to play in and around the box, they will make a mistake, a poor pass or a poor shot, and then you can counter. Ferguson notoriously did this against teams, like Arsenal, that he knew we could not outplay in midfield. However, fall too deep, and you are at your own mercy. Jones made a costly mistake losing a header that he should not have lost, then Smalling was unlucky and the ball deflected off his heel into the path of Eriksen, and everyone was ball watching. The second chance, an average cross is met with a less than average, for the day, Jones who scores a great own goal.

    Defenders make mistakes, just like attackers do. When you have the ball, at least you can control to a great extent what happens. If you are deep, defending, a deflected shot, an own goal, a goalie mistake, can all lead to losing three points.
  22. Feb 1, 2018
    #22

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    There was a story that he felt he was the natural replacement for Rijkard. Went in for interviews and all that but was passed up for Pep instead. Which might explain why he’s become the ultimate hipster and rebelling against the perceived best way to play football.
  23. Feb 1, 2018
    #23

    Greck Full Member

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    Point 4 is criminally outdated. Teams are now very well drilled in retaining possession and are less error prone passing it around.

    You'll need a collective press to force mistakes these days
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  24. Feb 1, 2018
    #24

    luke511 Full Member

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    To be fair those points seem to fit Mourinho's gameplan on the big away games worryingly well..
  25. Feb 1, 2018
    #25

    Offside Euro 2016 sweepstake winner

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    People need to actually try. Matic, Pogba, Lukaku and Martial play like they’re 5-0 up against Gillingham. It’s bizarre. The only properly big game we’ve done well in under Jose against Chelsea last season was when Rashford was upfront and ran around like a madman.
  26. Feb 1, 2018
    #26

    adexkola Arsenal supporter Verified Moaner City Lover

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    Thanks for the context.
  27. Feb 1, 2018
    #27

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    To be fair, I have no problem with our approach yesterday. I thought we were quite adventurous till Jones' OG.
    My main issue with Mourinho is not really possession.
    We don't press anywhere near as aggressively enough as we should.
  28. Feb 1, 2018
    #28

    Yagami Full Member

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    Any proof that these are José's views? I hope not because if so that's concerning, though it would explain our horrendous showings in the big games under him.
  29. Feb 1, 2018
    #29

    Rossa Full Member

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    Agree with this - hey agreeing in one thread and not agreeing in another - proper discussion to be had!

    The thing about our play, and it has been like this for some time, is that one, two, or even three players press, and the others sit very deep allowing for far too much space between our players. We don't press collectively. It appears that we hope that chance will let their defenders make a mistake and Lingard can snatch the ball and score a goal; it happened twice against Arsenal, so why not. That rarely ever works. And the weird thing is that our defense is properly fast, so we can afford to sit high. Tottenham sit much higher up the pitch, but they are noticably slower at the back.
  30. Feb 1, 2018
    #30

    ghagua Full Member

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    Don't know if this is true or not, but we seem to be following that article to a tee.
  31. Feb 1, 2018
    #31

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    I call it half hearted.
    You want to press but you're also very worried about making a mistake.
    Even when we do it well(Liverpool and Arsenal) we don't do it for any sustained period and retreat into our shells.
  32. Feb 1, 2018
    #32

    RC89 Full Member

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    I literally thought this too :lol:
  33. Feb 1, 2018
    #33

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    Decent strat when you manage Porto, but not for Utd's current squad.
  34. Feb 1, 2018
    #34

    montpelier Full Member

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    I think 6 & 7 might just be the psychological selling points of this approach, rather than actually being factually true.
  35. Feb 1, 2018
    #35

    Minimalist Full Member

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    All of that would be fine (not my cup of tea though) if there was some evidence that our attack was being properly trained to ‘pounce’ when opportunity arises.

    Nobody minds a legit counter attacking side. We’re not that.
  36. Feb 1, 2018
    #36

    Siorac Full Member

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    It's actually number 4 that is the biggest bullshit. It's very easy to make a defensive mistake when you are under constant pressure.
  37. Feb 1, 2018
    #37

    sully1 Full Member

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    I put the OP in the 'Fake news' section
  38. Feb 1, 2018
    #38

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Aye, which makes me almost certain the original quote comes from when he was manager of Porto, as it certainly doesn't reflect what's happened in his managerial career since.
  39. Feb 1, 2018
    #39

    Siorac Full Member

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    He does have a habit of conceding possession in big games.
  40. Feb 1, 2018
    #40

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    Well that's not what I'm trying to do here and i definitely not the tone i set in my OP. It was just interesting to see these "principles" and how much they do line up with what we see on the pitch in some of these games.

    I made sure to say that this could be false. Not everything is about "bashing" the manager. Just an interesting read that's all.