Jose: one hundred games and a 62% win rate

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Salus Populi Suprema Lex, Jan 27, 2018.

  1. Jan 30, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Wouldn't say we were in the shit, we'd just won the FA Cup, we had a young squad, we just needed somebody to come in to raise the tempo, give us our umph back, or give LvG the funds needed to complete the rebuild.
  2. Jan 31, 2018

    Nik70 Full Member

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    Nope we were in the shit. We were boring as hell to watch and couldn't finish in the top 4 consistently. Yes we won the FA cup which was great but so did Wigan in the year they got relegated.
  3. Jan 31, 2018

    Zarlak my face causes global warming

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    Truth like rain don't give a fuck who it falls on.
    :lol: We were awful, playing a dire brand of shitty football that was mind numbingly boring to watch on TV.
  4. Jan 31, 2018

    Laurentiu amt New Member

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    LVG's same dire brand of shitty football has been groundwork for Pep's success @BARCA and to a very small degree @Bayern. Given time, LVG would've turned things around.
    Even if he's a total idiot at times, the guy pioneered a lot of coaching developments in football and has a very proactive approach to a club's structure. Yes, it takes time and it's boring at the start. But if it would've worked you'll all be dancing now.

    I think it's just fair to say it really didn't work out and that's it.
  5. Jan 31, 2018

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    People have short memories. Some of the football we were producing that season was beyond grim. 49 league goals that year under a manager who could see that his approach evidently wasn't working and yet stubbornly insisted on persevering with it anyway.
  6. Jan 31, 2018

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    The brand of football we were playing under LVG was only similar to Pep's insofar as we were trying to play a possession based game - besides that the similarities were minimal. Pep's teams tend to employ a high-pressing approach and while they obviously like to hold onto the ball they're also forward-thinking and dynamic/inventive - the football we were producing under LVG was risk averse to the point of tedium, with the priority being to ensure we kept the ball irrespective of whether or not we were actually doing anything with it. There was no creativity to his side here - our movement was lackluster and uninspiring, and once lower table teams caught onto what they were doing they were able to sit back, soak up the small amount of pressure we were applying, and then catch us on the counter or surprise us when they did get chances...hence why LVG dropped a lot of points to smaller teams even though his record against the big teams was actually alright.

    LVG's a very good manager, or was a very good manager. Obviously. But he'd had jobs before United wherein he'd failed, and while here he demonstrated little desire to change his approach when it became clear it wasn't working. Mourinho's been a significant improvement in spite of his flaws and I doubt we'd have gotten better under LVG.
  7. Jan 31, 2018

    Laurentiu amt New Member

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    I do agree that it didn't work out and yes, we were boring as hell. But I still think he would've moved forward with it at some point. But that "some point" was quite far away indeed.
  8. Jan 31, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    No pain, no gain, and with the right recruitment(and putting Rooney out to grass) we'd have been flying in his third season, alas
  9. Jan 31, 2018

    Zarlak my face causes global warming

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    :lol: I admire your optimism. There is no evidence at all that what you've just said is true, but plenty of evidence to say it wouldn't be. We were signing average players, and playing dire football that was a snooze fest to watch. Nobody enjoyed it, and at the end of the day that's what we watch football for. To enjoy it.
  10. Jan 31, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    True, but he still finished higher in his two seasons than Mourinho did last season.
  11. Jan 31, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Most of the performances often when we were depleted against teams that actually wanted to play football not enough evidence ?
  12. Jan 31, 2018

    dirkey Full Member

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    We wouldn't. I was a firm believer when we appointed Van Gaal and was delighted, but he simply wasn't up to the job. He was taking us backwards, I'm surprised anyone here doesn't realise that these days.

    Recruitment you say? Right, let's look at who he recruited during his time:

    Falcao - Flop
    Valdes - Flop
    Bastian -Flop
    Di Maria - Flop
    Romero - Good
    Memphis - Flop
    Darmian - Average
    Herrera - Good
    Rojo - Inconsistent
    Blind - Average
    Martial - Good, potential to be great
    Shaw - Average so far, potential to be good
    Schneiderlin - Flop

    His record in the market was pretty brutal for us. That would hardly have suddenly turned around.
  13. Jan 31, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    :lol:

    What kind of rebuild were we seeing under van gaal? The man was clueless. Two more players from his horrid squad in Blind and Darmian and leaving this year. He wasted money and our time.
  14. Jan 31, 2018

    Zarlak my face causes global warming

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    You mean the ones where we played like dogshit? Yeah, that's not evidence.
  15. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Apart from Martial and the Coward they were free transfers and bargain basement signings, what did you expect ?
  16. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Behave yourself, LvG has probably forgotten more about football than you or I will ever know.

    He's gone, let it go
  17. Feb 1, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    He destroyed our squad. I dont care what he knows or doesn’t know.
  18. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    You're obviously struggling with 'most', but if you've got a few hours to spare I suggest you get a video of our performance where we went to Anfield with a depleted squad as in ten players missing(none of this oh were missing Pogba what do you expect nonsense this season)and took the mickey, something we've rarely done for 25 years, I could mention other games but I think i've already made my point.
  19. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Destroyed our squad by getting rid of under performing players, and those that were never good enough to play for Manchester United(according to most who bothered to post on various Forums), interesting.
  20. Feb 1, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    Yeah lets forget all the fecking garbage he bought to replace the players he sold.
  21. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Yeah let's. It's boring
  22. Feb 1, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    How convenient.
  23. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Can't be arsed mate, it's old news
  24. Feb 1, 2018

    Zarlak my face causes global warming

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    Wow, the odd one example. Really proves your point there.
  25. Feb 1, 2018

    dirkey Full Member

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    This is hilarious. So, we'll forget the crap he bought (or, as you say above we'll disregard the fact he bought crap as they were free transfers / bargain basements) .. but we'll remember the crap he got rid of. Seems perfectly reasonable.

    The fact you can't see that we were going backwards and were in a spiral from which he wouldn't have recovered us is mind boggling to me.

    And like I say, this is from someone who rejoiced when he was appointed, so I probably gave him more leeway than most.

    His Ajax side is still one of my favourite sides of all time, but the game had passed him by, and he wasn't suited to England.
  26. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Thanks.
  27. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    How the hell can a team that had just won the FA Cup be going backwards ?

    (Enter stage left some wag "yeah but Wigan won the FA Cup") :lol:
  28. Feb 1, 2018

    dirkey Full Member

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    2014/15 season in the league. 4th place. 70 points. 62 goals.
    2015/16 season in the league. 5th place. 66 points. 49 goals.

    FA Cup is more or less meaningless these days, when it comes to the big club. It's sad, but it's true.

    Regardless of the fact that the stats in the league show a distinct reverse in course, it wasn't just that. It was the performances. The signings. The rigidity of the play. The mood of the club.

    Everything. We were going backwards.
  29. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    The performances by and large under LvG were better than they are now against the better teams, yeah we stunk the place out against 'mediocre' sides far to often but that would've been easier to fix than the situation we find ourselves in now where we regularly score 4 against those we should beat, but haven't got a clue, or don't seem to, how to play against the better sides, or I would've thought so.
  30. Feb 1, 2018

    dirkey Full Member

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    Interesting. I'd agree with you that the performances against the big sides were better, but I don't really think it would have been easier to fix for Van Gaal against the smaller sides. They knew they could just sit back and with us aimlessly moving the ball slowly around the pitch, stay in position and we wouldn't create much. I don't think he ever grasped the difference between England and all the other leagues where he managed, whereby the "little" teams could beat the big teams on any given day. He just assumed that the naturally higher talent level of his players would shine through.
  31. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    I would have thought LvG would have been well aware of the standard of the Premier League teams having scouted players in the League when he was the National team Manager, so I doubt it would have been a shock to him.

    Think his main problem was that like most Dutch Managers(or it seems, there's not many ranters and ravers on the touchline) once the players cross that white line it's up to them as individuals/collectively to solve any problems if the game plan isn't working, or be replaced by players that could solve them(either in the squad, or new signings)

    If he(LvG)could've signed a 1 in 2 chances striker the system he used would probably have worked, and we would have picked the opposition off at will once they were forced to come out chasing the game once we'd scored.

    An Arjen Robben would have been nice as well ;)
  32. Feb 1, 2018

    haram Full Member

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    The top opposition are just better now as well. You are deluded if you think the squad van gaal had created is anywhere near good enough and would be up here with the current top PL teams.
  33. Feb 1, 2018

    dirkey Full Member

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    Interesting take ... I don't agree with you, but an interesting read nonetheless. I guess we'll never know (duh, obviously!!)

    I was glad we moved on though, I must say.
  34. Feb 1, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    You and a few 100,000,000 United fans World Wide :lol:
  35. Feb 6, 2018

    Chesterlestreet Man of the crowd

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    The format change doesn't devalue the old EC for me - no. You can certainly argue that the number of top teams that compete for the CL in the knockout stage is greater than it was - but that doesn't devalue the old EC, whose winners were usually teams most would agree were top of the line. There were perhaps a few arguable cases here and there, but that goes with the territory of any knockout tournament.

    The old CW and UEFA cups were contested by second string teams only in the sense that those teams weren't the current domestic league holders. The EL is contested by teams that frequently aren't even second string as far as the major leagues are concerned - more like third string or worse in terms of current status. You may get the odd under-performing big boy (like United) but the contest itself is second rate per se, everything about it screams second rate (again, from a top team perspective).

    We defeated a version of the Dream Team when we won our CWC in 1991. We defeated...what? when we won the EL last season? A top level team? Nowhere close.

    If Liverpool fans had gone on about winning the EL the way some of our fans did, and still do (not grouping you personally with 'em, to be clear) - we'd be laughing our arses off. That's plain as day - and usually not doing what Liverpool fans tend to do is sound advice.
  36. Feb 6, 2018

    Handré1990 Full Member

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    Have to agree with you! It was a nice bonus, since we didn’t get into the CL, most importantly though, it secured us CL this season.
  37. Feb 6, 2018

    Borden Full Member

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    This. I really don't understand people who think winning the EL is any kind of achievement for a club of our size. We beat the likes of Celta Vigo (barely!), Ajax, Rostov, Anderlecht and Saint-Etienne ffs. With the exception of Celta Vigo we didn't face a single team that would have stood a good chance of surviving in the PL.

    Don't really give a crap about "completing the collection" either. The only reason the EL win was important for me was CL qualification.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  38. Feb 7, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    For the record mate i'm not trying say it devalues the old European Cup. I was just pointing out that the same logic you were using to devalue the Europa League eg the level of competition not being what it was when compared to the Uefa Cup could be applied to the Old EC in comparison to the Champions League in reverse. The European Cup was easier to win than the current Champions League. I mean back in the day some years it was probably harder to win the Uefa Cup because there was so many 2nd and 3rd placed teams from the season before in it. Many of whom were on their way to winning their domestic leagues that year.

    Again mate no one's arguing that the level of competition in the Cup is as strong as it used to be. But lets remember theres a reason we were in the Europa League last year, we weren't good enough to qualify for the CL it's that simple. We were in the competition we deserved to be in last season, and it's not like we were levels above the teams we played. We didn't tear through the the teams in the competition by any means. Some of the rounds we scraped through, none of them were great sides by any means but they were all good teams.

    Maybe you seen or read some over the top celebrations that i didn't mate but most United fans i seen on here or spoke to were happy to win the Europa while acknowledging its not on the same level as the Champions League. I don't see whats wrong about being happy to see your club win a European trophy even if it isn't the biggest one. The club had also never won it, the only cup United had never won which added some more importance to the win. I'm delighted whenever United win any trophy, i was chuffed when we won the FA Cup even though it's not the biggest domestic prize.

    I find it a bit sad personally that some United fans turned their nose up at the Europa win and couldn't enjoy it for what it was. Not directing this at you mate but i reckon some of the people with this attitude probably took great delight in winding other fans up about their teams being in the competition because they foolishly believed United would never have a dip and fall out of the Champions League.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  39. Feb 7, 2018

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    I think you are seriously underestimating those teams none of them are great sides granted but they were all good to decent teams. Do you really think they are all championship level teams who would get easily relegated from the PL?

    Do you think Wolves could win the Europa League?
  40. Feb 8, 2018

    Bestietom Full Member

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    He is most certainly a winner, but does his style of play suit all the fans..???