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It depends how many players we sign. I'd keep him in the squad if he's fine with that role
He's indeed more consistent than the other three I don't deny it which I also never said Mata was equal or worse in contribution compared to those three but I don't see his contribution this season as "much different". Mkhy did scored in big games and important games, to be fair Lingard as well scored a few important goals and performed very well against Chelsea, and Martial also had his moments. I really can't see how Mata is considered to be the special one compared to the other three.
And just like what you said @el3mel people just love to overreact it especially on Mata and one of them who just did it is @Stack
When did Mikhi scored in big games this season ? And when did Martial have his moments ?
Mata had had a better season than all those three it's not even a debate. The only one of them who has been performing the whole season and didn't pass through a period of form drop.
Sorry but you aren't giving evidence to prove otherwise.
Mkhy vs Spurs, vs Anderlect 1st leg and 2nd leg, Saint-Etienne, Rostov.
Martial did have his moment performed very well in the period of time whenever he played from the Middlesbrough (home) until the game against Saint-Etienne (home game).
Sorry mate, you have no right to say that to me. I did give you all the evidence to prove why Mata hasn't been much different compared to the other three in order to be called more special than them while you gave nothing to me and just make your own statement.
Too many times he slows our game down. Granted, he's a fantastic player and the stats speak for themselves. He has had a good season but he's also one of the reasons why we struggle to attack. Like I watched last game and Mata was on the right wing and he received the ball from Tuanzebe and instead of running through the right he passed it backwards thus breaking our attack. He does not like to take responsibility with the ball, that's my main problem with him. He still has 2 good seasons left in him and I hope he wins the PL with us.
As a Chelsea fan, I can say that he's got one of the best footballing brains I've ever seen. Love the guy BUT...
As an earlier poster mentioned, he is a bit easy to dispossess. This is more a PL flaw. He should have gone back to Spain after leaving us.
Still, nice to see a lot of MU fans appreciating him on here. Class act is Juan!
The only big game of these is Spurs game. Since when Saint-Etienne or Rostov are considered big ? Mata scored against Arsenal in the league and scored the winner against City in the league cup.
Martial did nothing this season except that period in Feb which ended by his performance against Watford.
You didn't give anything. Consistency and performance he was better than all of these, and our second best attacker after Zlatan this season. His only drop of performance was these last matches after returning from injury. You just brought me some random games that prove nothing, I'm talking about a player who performed consistently this season.
To make it clear, Mata's style of play is to pass and move in open spaces to receive the pass and rotate the play to reach the clinical positions in the box to score. He always works as a part of system, like most Spanish players tbh. In any attacking system he'll shine heavily and this what happens when Jose was attacking through this season. Last matches Jose was only defending and thus his performance dropped.
It's true that he's not the player that'll make miracles on his own but in a fluent system he's better than all these players to work as a part of this system and move the play on.
How is the game against Saint-Etienne or Rostov not considered a big game?? They are not group stage anymore and he scored the only our goals which lead us to final of Europa League which can be very vital for our CL ticket. They are big games!
Just want to let you know that City used most of their 3rd choice players (not 1st choice and not 2nd choice) If Pep didn't give a care about that game, I don't know how it is even considered to be a big game?
That means you got some homework that you need to do which is watching Martial from Middlebrough game through January (Reading, Wigan) until February (Watford, Saint-Etienne,Blackburn, Southampton).
I gave you those games that prove the performance of the players. And you have given me nothing but false statement because Rashford is our second best attacker this season.
You want to know what his drop performances are? Hull, Feyenoord, Zorya, Stoke, Chelsea, Fenerbache, WHU, Crystal Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, Bournemouth and of course the last of three games.
I can see why you said "People just love to overreact." It's very clear to me.
He useless when Rooney and Martial are infront of him. They don't run in behind or create any sort of movement whatsoever.
Put Rashford or someone like Chicharito infront of him and he will be brilliant.
So, of the 6 performances you've listed defending Martial, 2 have been against sides that were relegated from Championship and 1 against a side that was exceptionally poor defensively on that day.
And now are we saying Rashford is better than Mata. 2 pages ago, you were going on about how Mata was the 2nd highest goalscorer because he had more minutes(despite a better goals to minute ratio). Rashford has 1 more goal than Mata despite having played more and in a more advance position
We were winning 3-0 on the first leg, how is that Saint-Etienne game a big game ?? The tie was over already. And Rostov were terrible even on their pitch. You have strange standards for big games.
3rd choice ? Their team was all of old age and heavy experienced, most of the players played this match was part of Pelligrini team. It was a derby match in a cup game and only one leg, yes it's a big one, not like Saint-Etienne which was over from the first leg !
I think you're the one who need to read better tbh, because I said this in my post that his best period was in Feb. when he was struggling to enter the starting line-up and played well in cup matches till he entered the line-up and put a good performance against Watford. The Boro game in December was an exception, a one game in a period when he was either absent or terrible. He was also not that good in the EFL cup final.
Great that you're counting the number of good matches Martial played, which are only counted on 2 hands fingers, while Mata was playing well and performing most of the season but you're ignoring it.
Rashford who played most of the season out of position ? I'll put him 3rd after Zlatan and Mata.
And what's this link related to our discussion ?
Again great you above counted about 6 games Martial played well and give him credit, while you brought some matches out of a total of 41 Mata played this season to consider him terrible.
I said Martial had his moments in those period of time. Those are all the only games he had played in that period and whenever he performed he was dropped the next game.
There is no doubt that Rashford is our 2nd best attacker and our 2nd highest goalscorer right now so what are you trying to say here?
My point on two pages ago was Mata's injury wasn't a big miss because he was a replaceable, being 2nd highest goalscorer didn't make him special compared to the candidates who can replace him and I am not wrong about this. So once again what's your point now?
Quoting what a great man once said:
So suddenly 1 or 2 goals despite playing more minutes and in a more advanced position is considered better?
Edit: Oh wait, just realised Mata still has more league goals despite playing lesser
The tie was over already? The tie was over when Mkhy scored the goal, that's when it was over.
And why terrible pitch is the problem here? Pretty sure it's very important and difficult to get the away goal in terrible pitch.
Maffeo, Iheanacho, Garcia, Fernando they are clearly are 3rd choice because Sagna and Zabaleta are the first and second choice right back, Aguero & Gabriel Jesus are the first & second choice striker, Yaya, Silva, Gundogan, KDB even Zabaleta this season played in midfield are ahead of Garcia and Fernando in midfield.
Player like Caballero, Nolito, Sane and Navas aren't first choice either.
I can't see that as a bigger one than Saint-Etienne when the manager didn't take it seriously.
Yeah do you think Mata was that good when he scored and involved with the goals? Most people on this thread have already said he performed poor but still managed to contributed in goals while Martial did contributed for the EFL cup final goals.
And you are keep ignoring with the fact that I never said Mata was worse than Martial and Mkhy. And my point was he hasn't been much different with the others this season to be considered special, that's why I mentioned Mata's poor games to show you that he's not considered to be the special one here compared to the others. I am actually tired to say this but I got no choice because you keep interpreted my statement differently.
Rashford scored more goals and still being 3rd
You are indeed one those guy who likes Mata because he's a nice guy with a great first touch and thinks 6 league goals and 10 in all comp as a 3rd or 4th top scorer means having a very good season.
I could mentioned more before and after those games. I have only said those games because he performed "consistently in that period of time with no poor games" which was the started of the debate since you called Mata as a consistent which I can't see much of difference in term of consistency because Mata only had a few consistency in first half of the season and hasn't been consistent in 2nd half of the season at all. And pretty sure I gave you the link to show how inconsistent Mata was.
And you are ignoring with the fact that I mentioned "significantly"??
Yup Mata scored more league goals while Rashford didn't start the last of three league games which we all know those three games aren't in Jose's important list anymore. I can see Rashford could have score more if he starts in our last three games.
I guess I will say this and you shall quote the great man post again: Rashford being our 2nd goalscorer with only 1 goal ahead right now doesn't make him a "significantly" better in goal threat than Mata.
Yeah because Saint-Etienne was going to score 3 goals sure before Mikhi scored. Rostov who scored zero goals against us and wasn't dangerous at all on their pitch itself.
Man City: Caballero, Maffeo, Otamendi, Kompany, Clichy, Garcia, Fernando, Sane, Jesus Navas, Iheanacho, Nolito
Kolarov for Kompany, Sterling for Sane, Aguero for Nolito. last 2 of these subs were done after we took the lead.
Only Maffeo and Garcia are academic player. Otamendi, Kompany, Clichy, Fernando and Navas all were starters last season under Pelligrini. Nolito was a starter at this time, too. Many of this line-up is above 30. The only second string player we can consider is Iheanacho.
Pep immediately put Sterling and Aguero on the pitch after the team goes down by Mata so that shows he was interested in the game, not as you claim or he would have saved both for the " bigger " games.
By this logic then even Rojo, Shaw, Carrick weren't starters before this game was played but started this game.
Sure goals count but it wasn't goals only. Mata has been very solid during most of the season till his injury and he's one of our only attacking players who showed consistency through this season. I don't care about what others say, good or bad about him. I and you should care only for what we're saying in discussion.
And no chance he didn't do much difference than these 2. Mikhi has been terrible since his injury in Saint-Etienne game in France except for some games here and there. That's more than 3 months of inconsistency and up and down performance. I love him, but Mata got a better season consistency wise.
Martial did absolutely nothing this season to talk about him. Just about 5 or 6 games, nearly half of them were against championship games.
You brought me a fraction of games from about 41 games, delete these games and you get more than 30 games left with good performance. That's excellent. Try to do this with Martial for example and you'll end with these 5 or 6 good games only. Just no chance.
Just in the same post you disagreed on giving Mata credit for scoring and getting involved in goals, then directly claim Rashford got a better season because he scored more goals. Contradiction in its finest.
Nah I love Mikhi and Rashford and praised them this season but truth has to be told.
Rashford got one more goal against him and you considered him our second best attacker so stop contradicting your point of view.
Not to mention, Rashford only passed his goals scoring number after the later got injured.
Mention the other games then.
Look this is why I said you have been overreacting. I already told you that Mata has been better than Martial and Mkhy. But not much different. So what is wrong with this statement? Is it so hard to accept that your lovely Mata hasn't been up to the requirement standard and expectation just like the others?
I have also already gave you my reasons:
Martial had his moments of being consistent but still being dropped.
Mkhy scored in big games even if you don't want consider the Saint-Etienne and Rostov games but you couldn't deny with Spurs and two of Anderlect games are considered to be important and big games and he scored. That's pretty much three games in total and you only mentioned two in total.
And the three of them are not much different in term of end product. Again so how am I wrong saying Mata hasn't been much different with Mkhy and Martial this season? And he clearly hasn't and we didn't even miss him when he was injured.
And you shouldn't deny that Rashford contributed more in important games this season, not just having score more goals in all comp.
You say I love Mata so I'm saying this , while I can say you hate him and this is the reason for your point of view. This point is pointless and can be taken from either ways so you should stop bring it to the table, speaking to someone who defended Mikhi and Rashford a lot, too.
Regarding Martial getting dropped, well first of all when he was dropped the next game against WHU, Jose said he agreed with the player to not play this game.
Then after this run against championship teams in Jan and Feb happened, he returned to the starting line up against Watford and and made a run of 7 games in a row as a starter ( Watford, Etienne , Blackburn, Etienne, South EFL final, Bournemouth ), dropped against Rostov, then injured against Chelsea. In these 6 run games his only outstanding performance was against Watford. So these moments you're talking about : 1) came against championship games. 2) For Jose wasn't in vain as he returned him to the starting line-up for a run and he reverted to his terrible performance again once he got the starting position.
Rest of the post, I'm struggling to understand your base on comparing players. Is your only principle on comparing between these players are the number of goals or what ?
Once again you are being overreacting here.
I don't deny that Mata has been better than the players I mentioned. I never called Mata as a poor player. So I don't see how you can call me as a hater of Mata when I don't even call him poor. I said Mata hasn't been much different with Martial and Mkhy, so why didn't you say that I hate Martial and Mkhy as well?
I call "your lovely mata" because you couldn't accept with the fact that Mata hasn't been up to the requirement standard and expectation just like the others? And he clearly hasn't.
Like I have already said before that
There two different type of people on this thread. One who likes Mata because he's a nice guy with a great first touch and thinks 6 league goals and 10 in all comp as a 3rd or 4th top scorer means having a very good season. And the other one who understand that Mata's delivery hasn't been up to the standard of Manchester United's expectation and the contribution this season has not been much different with the other attacking midfielder like (Martial, Mkhy and Lingard).
Again, I will say this that you need to do your homework if you disagree with me saying that Martial was consistent in those months since the Boro game until the Etienne game.
don't know if this is addressed in the following pages but I don't give a flying fig...
You are categorically wrong simply because Mata has already won the Champion's League, even providing the assist to Drogba that took Chelsea to ET and Penalties.
Don't agree to shmishagree and all that crap. You are in the right. It's not even an opinion. His performance levels across the Spanish and English league, in Europe has been very good. I think that if there weren't another diminutive Spanish player from Valencia that is superior (arguable as to how much) to him in David Silva, Mata might be regarded in better light. That and the Moyes shadow.
I didn't call you a hater but it's ridiculous each one disagrees with you on him you directly put him on the list of "loving Mata because of his cute face". I can say exactly the same on you from the opposite view. This can be taken from 2 prospective. I say what I believe it's true regardless of loving a player or not.
By your logic of comparing end products only, Rooney is by far our second best player this season ( 8 goals 10 assists although played most of the season as a sub ), by your logic, De Bruyne is an average player because he scored only 6 league goals also, exactly as Mata so he's not up to the standards, right ?
That wasn't what I was replaying on. I was replaying on the point of him getting dropped after each good performance, although he later on got 6 straight matches as a starter.
So, you acknowledge that Mou didn't consider these games important and fielded weaker teams and still count these 3 games among Mata's games?
Also, Rashford has scored lesser goals despite playing more minutes in a more advanced position and with better players playing alongside him as he didn't play in last 3 games!
You are clearly the one who being ridiculous and overreacting and trying to make a big deal of what I said.
I don't remember mentioning people loving mata because of his cute face or even quoting "loving Mata because of his cute face". You are the one who said that not me, don't try to twist my word into something that you just made up.
And you clearly said: "while I can say you hate him and this is the reason for your point of view".
My point of view of Mata is still better than my point of view of Mkhy and Martial so why didn't you say I hate Mkhy and Martial as well??
Once again you are twisting my word into something ridiculous you just made up. What kind of logic that I have ever said end product is important to judge player's performance. And also KDB had 19 assists in the league only and he's done beyond what Mata has done this season, stop being ridiculous man.
I would like to remind you that if you want to ignore Mata's end product in our discussion then you should stop talking because majority in the games Mata tends to disappear in the game but still can find a way to score. There is nothing much more to discuss in Mata's performance this season apart from his movement and end product. You want a proof? Go read this thread and check them out.
Just curious, where do you live?
Thanks because I wasn't aware Mata had won the CL. That was then and this is now, it has been three and a half years since he showed anything like that player of the season type form for that Chelsea side.
Based on his United form he wouldn't get anywhere near a elite CL competing starting XI.
Most players who had maybe reached the vein of form he did at Chelsea and then failed to hit those heights again would be called one season wonders or criticised for failing to live up to what they once showed but Mata gets away with it. If it was Di Maria he'd get torn to shreds for not reaching the heights he did in that CL winning season but Mata still somehow maintains his status when it is thoroughly undeserved.
So what you are trying to say is Mata is allowed for not performing in those three games just because Herrera, Pogba and Valencia didn't play?
Well, Rashford has score more goals in important games than Mata this season.
I doubt you even know what I am trying to say. Let me repeat:
Rashford has score more goals than Mata this season, thus he's now our 2nd top scorer. It's fact.
We didn't miss Mata when he was injured, thus it's proven that I was right about Mata's injury wasn't going to be a big miss because him being our 2nd top scorer at that time doesn't make him significantly better in end product than the others.
It's simple man, you don't need to make it too complicated and try to make those sentences into arguments.
You're moving from the point of contradicting yourself to the point of removing from your mind what you write.
My point in my quote was if you're saying we love this player I can say the opposite on you.
This is my last post on you because it's getting ridiculous how you say something then change your words quickly after it. You need to remember what you write first.
Personal information shouldn't be asked in public post and player's performance thread.
And from those quote where did I make a statement that people loving Mata because of his cute face??
And from those quote where did I make a statement and logic that scoring more goals means you are better players??
And from those quote where did I make a statement and logic that scoring more goals means you are better players??
Stop twisting my words into something ridiculous that you just made it up.
If you can't read and see the difference of what I wrote. You indeed should stop talking.
Someone earlier pulled up the stats comparing Mata's two seasons he was voted Chelsea's best player to that of his time at United. It comes really close. And if you think about overall play at United, some of our best performances have been with him.
Basically, I think you're being very harsh. And I don't understand why - he has been productive, had amazing days to remember (Juanfield), worked his socks off to make Mourinho select him almost every match despite all the initial fears, and he does it in big games for those who like that too (fa cup final, vs city, vs Liverpool etc ).
its not fair to say he has digressed bc our managers and team has been gash as a whole in the last years. He has been a brighter star for us than Martial
You just said that they weren't important for Jose and hence he fielded a weakened side. You expect Mata to perform as well with that side as Rashford does with a full strength side?
Apart from the Europa League , which important game are we talking about?
When Mata was our 2nd top scorer, it was a "but he's played more minutes", "it's a difference of just 1 goal" . Mata has played lesser minutes and is 1 goal behind Rashford.
We drew 4 /7 games when Mata was out, looked less convincing
This is the last I'll be posting regarding this
Speaking for myself, that's probably the main reason I adore Mata. Throughout the bad times of the Moyes/Van Gaal reigns of turgid, skillless, joyless football Mata remained a shining light of football ability. Even leaving aside his excellent productivity and contributions in big games, there were times where he was the only player on the pitch who looked like he was capable of any sort of magic at all. An actual, honest to god footballer .
Yup, if what you have said is true about how good Mata is then I expect Mata to perform with Martial, Mkhy, Rooney on his side. I mean better than having Lingard next to you am I right?
Otherwise, so pretty much that sums up everything what me and the others have said in here that Mata isn't that special, he hasn't been the difference, we never miss him when he was injured because Mata can't do anything without Antonio Valencia, Mata isn't a type of player who can be used to built a team around. He's more a type of player who can perform if there are top players around him.
Pretty much what we needed in order to get CL ticket. He's been involved with all the goals since the Anderlect game until now.
And what are you trying to argue here?? I never argue about Mata being our 2nd top scorer. I only argue that just because he was our 2nd top scorer doesn't mean he was a significantly better in end product that the others. And I am still stick with that. Rashford is our 2nd top scorer and doesn't make him significantly better than the other in end product. Mata was our 2nd top scorer doesn't make him significantly better than the others. So why are you trying to argue with this?
I am shocked that you are still trying to make an argument about our results when clearly they have been the same results when Mata was in and out. What makes worse we lost our unbeaten record.
I think it's a good idea if you should make that as your last post because you have lost it and started making a non sense argument that I don't understand your point there.
Haven't really noticed him.
Did you miss our goal?
He made a good cross aimed at Fellaini at the start but besides that he's been invisible.
Has to do better, either him or mikh will be off for lingard pretty soon.
Apart from that I mean. He did well to intercept the throw (that was him wasn't it?), but him and Mhiki haven't really offered an outlet in attack so far. We've just been hoofing it to Rashford.
Had a fantastic start but has been almost invisible since our goal, which may be an instruction to play more defensively
Did really well to come back from a season ending injury, rewarded with a starting place in the final, big involvement in the second half and generally had a good game, especially in the second half.
Nice one Juan.
Separate names with a comma.