Julian Weigl

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by beingshe7don, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Dec 19, 2017
    #1

    beingshe7don Full Member

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    Everyone on the cafe is aware how good Weigl is. Basically he's a Carrick clone. It's no news that our midfield is light without the likes of Matic and Pogba. Matic has been playing practically every game and with fatigue setting in, his performances may start to go downhill. We need to ensure to have a long term replacement for Carrick and Matic and Weigl is probably one of the best in the game.

    With Mourinho's frustration with Mhikitaryan who has failed to deliver this season and had a mixed season last year. There have been strong rumors that we would probably ship him back to Dortmund and could possibly use him to get Weigl.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/manchester...em-sign-dortmund-starlet-julian-weigl-1652146

    https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...-Borussia-Dortmund-Julian-Weigl-transfer-news

    I do agree that these are not the most reliable sources but wouldn't Weigl be a great fit? He's only 22 and would be great for us.

    Let me know what you guys think.
  2. Dec 19, 2017
    #2

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    Either way I think it’s a good time to start shipping out players who are not in our long-term plans. If they can act as make-weights, or finance early moves for other players then better still.
  3. Dec 19, 2017
    #3

    United_We_Stand Full Member

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  4. Dec 19, 2017
    #4

    beingshe7don Full Member

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    I completely agree. Mhikitaryan could also be used as a make weight in getting Sandro from Juventus as well. More importantly, we need to get our transfers and players sorted this January even if they don't plan on moving until the summer
    1. Transfer window has been shortened
    2. World Cup year means players and agents would want to consider their transfers only after World Cup which further shortens the window
    3. World Cup year also means that our transfer targets will only get more expensive with their performances in the World Cup itself.
    4. When our key transfer targets perform better at the World Cup, the likes of PSG, City, Barcelona and Real will all be interested in the player that poses an uphill task to get them to United.
  5. Dec 19, 2017
    #5

    Bwuk Full Member

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    Nowhere near a Carrick clone. Carrick is much better defensively.
  6. Dec 19, 2017
    #6

    Devil may care Full Member Verified Moaner

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    He'd be a great signing without a doubt, and I don't think getting him in January would be detrimental as he will have 6 months to settle in without too much pressure as the league is gone and he can get used to it so he can hit the ground running next season.
  7. Dec 19, 2017
    #7

    Devil may care Full Member Verified Moaner

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    He wasn't at 22 though, Weigl is good defensively in a side that has regularly had zero defensive structure, often leaving him isolated, with time and coached by Carrick I see no reason he couldn't be as good as Carrick defensively by the time he hits 25.
  8. Dec 19, 2017
    #8

    SwansonsTache incontinent sexual deviant & German sausage lover

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    I remember some time ago when he was discussed heavily on here, a lot of the German caftards said that he wouldn't suit the English game.

    Can't quite remember the reasoning though.
  9. Dec 19, 2017
    #9

    LuenerLinguist Banned

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    Why would Dortmund want a player back who burned all bridges to the club and performed poorly recently. On top of that they should give up one of their few players that actually can defend. He also has a contract till June 21.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2017
  10. Dec 19, 2017
    #10

    Steven7290 Full Member

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    Players from Dortmund and all that.
  11. Dec 19, 2017
    #11

    United Pro Full Member

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    This rumour is based purely off the Delaney article from a few weeks ago. I don't think there's anything in it.
  12. Dec 19, 2017
    #12

    poleglass red Full Member

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    Gotze didn't exactly leave on great terms and he was welcomed back
  13. Dec 19, 2017
    #13

    hasanejaz88 Full Member

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    Quite the opposite. While he is different from Carrick, I wouldn't say it's defensively. He is quite the capable defensive midfielder but what he lacks is Carrick's passing ability, though he was steadily improving that.

    Would love him at United alongside Pogba.
  14. Dec 19, 2017
    #14

    LuenerLinguist Banned

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    Thats true, although I think in Götze`s case it was more between him and the fans and not (like in Miki`s case)the whole club (Watzke et al).
  15. Dec 19, 2017
    #15

    Seven Seas Sardines Full Member

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    He's German, not French! (thread title)
  16. Dec 19, 2017
    #16

    FCBarca Mes que un Rag City Lover

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    His signing would surprise me much more than that of Lukaku
  17. Dec 19, 2017
    #17

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    He'd be stupendous alongside Matic and Pogba
  18. Dec 19, 2017
    #18

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    They took back a bad performing Gõetze
  19. Dec 19, 2017
    #19

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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  20. Dec 19, 2017
    #20

    MDFC Manager Full Member

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  21. Dec 19, 2017
    #21

    Cliche Guevara Full Member

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    What did he do?

    I think Dortmund negotiated an excellent deal when they sold him, and wouldn’t likely have to pay any more to get him back, in my view.
  22. Dec 19, 2017
    #22

    do.ob Full Member

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    The problem is that he really belongs in an elaborate possession system. He isn't exactly a destroyer, so he can look lost defensively if he doesn't have a well organized pressing around him and on the ball his biggest strength is that he can do things like (half) a second quicker than most other guys. Which is very valuable when you have a well drilled positional system, where his team mates can leverage that little bit of extra time into something bigger, but if your team isn't that sharp in terms of positioning and passing then those gaps and spaces he opens are closed before you can exploit them.
    I think he'd be "perfect" for Guardiola, but not so much for Mourinho.

    Apparently he led the management to believe that he would extend his contract, only to force a move on short notice (supposedly Dortmund was keen on letting his contract run down, because they already sold Gündogan and Hummels due to contract reasons), causing Watzke to look like a fool in public and some friction with Tuchel (who had lots of love for him) and the management.

    But even if we put that aside he's nearing 30, would cost a hefty fee and take up a hefty wage, he isn't reliable, especially not in big games and had 1.5 shitty years in Manchester. Given his inconsistency there would be loads of risk for Dortmund and almost no resale value. Dortmund also happens to have outscored Bayern in the league, despite their losing streak, so Attack isn't really their problem. As far as senior players go they should and probably will be looking at defenders and maybe a b2b CM.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  23. Dec 19, 2017
    #23

    Maradona10 Duncan Castles

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    I think @Acquire Me , our resident ITK said we were interested in him too. I really believed that guy. I think he is more credible than delany.
  24. Dec 19, 2017
    #24

    Devil may care Full Member Verified Moaner

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    What do you mean? I wouldn't have said there was anything remotely surprising about Lukaku, and while Jose has a rep for liking beastly CM's he has an appreciation for cultured CM's like Alonso, Modric, Fabregas and Carrick.
  25. Dec 19, 2017
    #25

    FCBarca Mes que un Rag City Lover

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    I mean the Lukaku signing came a bit as a surprise when Morata seemed the intended target all along, Weigl for many reasons would be even more surprising
  26. Dec 19, 2017
    #26

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

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    For as good as Weigl could be, it's hard to hypothetically envision him being a great success in a Mourinho side. Weigl can pretty much play in only one position in one formation (The base of a midfield-three); mind you, Busquets, Pirlo, and Jorginho all either suffered or suffer from the same problem. Considering José seems to be pivoting away from a 4-3-3 towards either a 4-2-3-1 or a 3-4-1-2, it's hard to see where exactly Weigl could play at United with a great degree of success.

    Moreover, his playing style isn't really suited to José either. José has never really appreciated the role of a regista to the same extent as managers like Guardiola, Sarri, and Tuchel. These three managers tend to focus on highly-structured, possession-oriented attacks, whereas José has traditionally been more inclined to emphasise counter-attacking, and to not really organise structured attacks (More of a laissez-faire approach offensively). Weigl performed much better the last two seasons under Tuchel than he did under Bosz (Before his sacking). Bosz was Wenger-like in his possession-oriented yet out-dated laissez-faire approach to attacks; as you can see below, Dortmund under Bosz inadvertently avoided passing to Weigl, even though he was their most capable distributor. Under Tuchel, Weigl was at the centre of all that was good from Dortmund, even though he wasn't even 22 at that stage. It's hard to see how José would perform a volte-face and commit to both possession-oriented and structured attacks; doing so would be a complete and utter repudiation of his modus operandi. Thererfore, you can see why Weigl to United doesn't really make sense from a tactical perspective, that is for as long as José is manager.



  27. Dec 19, 2017
    #27

    HTG Full Member

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    I swear that I‘ve yet to see his name spelled out right on here.
  28. Dec 19, 2017
    #28

    do.ob Full Member

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    I mean that his quality is much more subtle than most of the guys you've named. He doesn't dribble like modric and he doesn't play nearly as many Hollywood passes like Cesc or Xabi, he keeps things rather simple most of the time. He likes to play rather deep, move him up a couple of meters (like Bosz tried) and he looks pretty mediocre and ineffective. His biggest strength is how well he copes with midfield pressing, as in he doesn't lose the ball and keeps up the rythm of the team. Which is valuable if your idea is to play through it and let the opposition chase the ball, but far less useful when you try something more direct.



    Dortmund, especially under Tuchel, used to create a lot of danger/penetration through their collective movement, because in Dortmund for the most part they didn't have to make world class 1on1 dribblings, find world class penetrating pass etc, because there were always team mates making runs, making themselves available for rather simple passes or dragging defenders out of the way. Which greatly benefited players like Mkhitaryan and Weigl, if you ask them to play in a static setup that's relies more on individual moments of brilliancy they tend to struggle.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  29. Dec 19, 2017
    #29

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

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    Rather we stayed away from Dortmund players. They look good playing in that system in that league, then join us and turn to shit.
  30. Dec 19, 2017
    #30

    FCBarca Mes que un Rag City Lover

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    And @Rawls explains the biggest reason why the link doesn't make sense but to a lesser extent it's the same reason why I believe Pep will be making Weigl his prime target in the summer. He won't be alone as I'm sure Bayern will do similarly if not wherever Tuchel ends up as well
  31. Dec 19, 2017
    #31

    Acole9 Outstanding

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    I agree, our track record leaves a lot to be desired.
  32. Dec 19, 2017
    #32

    Fortitude TV/Monitor Expert Scout

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  33. Dec 19, 2017
    #33

    Coops73 Full Member

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    Fair fecks to you mate, having the inclination, let alone the time to dig this sort of shit out ont tinternet. Looks like something Steven Hawking just shat out. Crack on though, the cafe needs people like you unlike people like me who couldn’t even muster up a pie chart.
  34. Dec 19, 2017
    #34

    pocco loco

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    From what I've seen he's a bit overrated on here.
  35. Dec 20, 2017
    #35

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    I wonder. Xabi Alonso thrived under Mourinho, who one could class as a regista. As has Carrick whilst fit
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  36. Dec 20, 2017
    #36

    meamth Full Member

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    Mourinho and Regista.
    He rarely make Regista/Deep lying playmaker signings because where he goes, if there's one he will try to use it.
    In Mourinho's case, he always try to sign a powerhouse/all action midfielder except Fabregas, Nuri Sahin, Thiago Motta, Steve Sidwell, and Canales.
    Weigl is very unlikely signing for us.

    Mourinho's Midfield signings (bolded is players who is considered as all action mid):
    Tiago (Benfica) – £10m
    Nuno Morais (Penafiel) – free
    Jiri Jarosik (CSKA Moscow) – £3m
    Lassana Diarra (Le Havre) – £2m
    Michael Essien (Lyon) – £24.4m
    Michael Ballack (Bayern Munich) – free
    John Obi Mikel (Lyn Oslo) – £16m
    Steve Sidwell (Reading) – free
    Luis Jimenez (Ternana) – £4.7m
    Thiago Motta (Genoa) – £3.6m + Francesco Bozoni + Leonardo Bonucci
    Wesley Sneijder (Real Madrid) – £15.5m
    Goran Pandev (Lazio) – free
    McDonald Mariga (Parma) – £4.3m
    Sergio Canales (Racing Santander) – £3.8m
    Sami Khedira (Stuttgart) – £10m
    Mesut Ozil (Werder Bremen) – £12.5m
    Nuri Sahin (Borussia Dortmund) – £8.8m
    Hamit Altintop (Bayern Munich) – free
    Luka Modric (Tottenham) – £33m
    Marco van Ginkel (Vitesse) – £9m
    Cesc Fabregas (Barcelona) – £30m
    Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Borussia Dortmund) – £26m
    Paul Pogba (Juventus) – £100m
    Nemanja Matic - several times.

    There are some flair players, but there is very little amount of players there who is considered deep lying playmakers.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  37. Dec 20, 2017
    #37

    ti vu Full Member

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    It's not just passing game, but having some aggressiveness in the game. Xavi Alonso ain't strong ball winning, but he can get dirty when needed. Carrick is clealess preferred by Mourinho for he is more about using his teammate so he can anticipate and intercept. Fellaini, Herrera were higher in pecking order than Carrick.

    I don't ser to be the ne siting in of our defense line if the rumor of our interest is true. He may get transformed to Cesc, Modric role where he is to roam uppitch more. Big if though as I kinda agree without Rawls he is very little of Mourinho preferred profile.
  38. Dec 20, 2017
    #38

    meamth Full Member

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    Add the fact that he let go of Xabi Alonso at one point. Clearly Deep lying playmaker is not his preferred playing style.
  39. Dec 20, 2017
    #39

    Micky Targaryen Full Member

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    Regarding the posts concerning Weigl and Mou's tactis, I've always wondered..

    1) If Mourinho intends to sign Weigl, surely we can trust him enough to know the type of player he will be buying? Or maybe tweak his tactics to fit Weigl into our midfield? I turst Mou enough to analyse the type of player before buying him.

    2) And even if Mou doesn't change his playing style after signing Weigl, shouldn't the player be professional enough to adapt to our style instead? These are professional players and aren't robots programmed to just adapt to a single role.

    This post isn't meant to challenge anyone. It's just a thought that always comes up whenever I see anyone mentioning that player X wouldn't suit our style. :)
  40. Dec 20, 2017
    #40

    ti vu Full Member

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    Who? Alonso left under Ancelotti, but by Perez's decision. They hit gold with Kroos in hindsight but that's at the cost of Ancelotti season and the following half (La Liga).
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017