Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by bsc, May 30, 2012.
I don't think Baseball & Football can be managed with similar philosophy.
Of course it can't
He's also black, so of course he does.
He did exactly as I predicted Adam and he would do in the newbs.
What Adam did for Blackpool (and Enrique for Newcastle) which is play for about 25 games and then fall away into nothing. Enrique did the same.
Enrique for me is very very average.
Let's have a look at the Liverpool squad with a rivals eyes.
Pepe Reina - Good but not any longer a match winner. To many unforced errors last season to be consider as a top 4 keeper.
Enrique/Kelly/Johnson/Flanagan - Only Enrique is top 4 material. Johnson is hit and miss but Kelly looks like a good prospect. Flanagan who??
Agger/Skrtel/Carragher/Coates - Their biggest weakness. None of the are top 4 material. Skrtel is OK but not always reliable, Agger is far to inconsistent and Carragher is walking penalty giver. Coates is totally unproven.
Gerrard/Adams/Lucas/Henderson/Spearing/Shelvey/Sterling - What to say? Gerrard one year older. Lucas back from a long injury. Adams is not top 6 material. Henderson have potential but is still hit in miss. Spearing gave away the cup. Shelvey is bald but I like him. Sterling?? Looks like our midfield. To many question marks.
Downing/Maxi/Bellamy/Kuyt - The first had 0 goals and 0 ass. Number two and three are hit and miss and Kuyt is ....Kuyt. O dear o dear.
Carroll/Suarez - Carroll has huge potential and his last two month was very promising. I say he's Pools future. Suarez is both a genius and a walking disaster. Could end up anywhere between 20 goals and suspended for half of the season.
Liverpool needs at least two quality players to have a reasonable chance to be top 4. One central defender and a replacement for Kuyt. Rodgers will help them and install more possession play but the question is if they have the material to produce the end product?
Henderson, Downing, Carroll and Suarez can all improve from last season. Reina and Agger can step up one gear. Lucas can give them stability. They have potential but there is many question marks. If they keep the majority of their squad, with one or two improvements they can challenge Arsenal and Tottenham for the last CL place. But I say it's more likely they end up as number 5-6 next season.
OK. What is your opinion?
My opinion is that Agger and Skrtel work well as a pair but Agger is injury prone and the other options are poor.
They were a strong defensive unit last season, up until Agger got injured.
At Anfield against us?
Didn't he fall over himself and break a rib?
Fine, no need for change.
No changes needed for right back.
Skrtel and Agger ok first choice, nothing more or les. Lacking strength in depth at center back.
Need an alernative to Enrique at left back.
Lacking in quality, need one quality midfielder and get rid of a couple.
Lacking in quality, need to bring in two new wingers.
Ned another striker, too much depends on Suarez now.
1 left back
Half a team then?
1/4 of a squad rather.
Which is what they do every year basically. 60 players (+youngsters) signed since summer of 2004.
Which is part of their problem; lack of continuity.
This should give everyone an idea of where Liverpool stand compared to the top club teams in the world:
Goal Difference Table
Real - 89
Barca - 85
City - 64
United - 56
Dortmund - 55
Bayern - 55
Juve - 48
Milan - 41
Schalke - 30
Monchengladbach - 25
Arsenal - 25
Spurs - 25
Napoli - 20
Chelsea - 19
Stuttgart - 17
Udinese - 17
Valencia - 15
Everton - 10
Lazio - 9
Leverkusen - 8
Liverpool - 7
Atletico - 7
Roma - 6
Newcastle - 5
Levante - 4
Inter - 3
Malaga - 1
Sevilla - 1
Parma - 1
They're absolutely miles behind winning the title. They're a similar level to City pre-takeover and it cost them what, £600m to win the league? And that's when they already had Hart, Kompany, Richards, de Jong etc in the team to build upon. On top of that they have shit stadium, no stability and an unproven manager. It's glorious.
Liverpool is probably minimum 4 quality players short of challenging for top 4. No chance of title in any forseeable future.
Who have they who is quality? Reina, Suarez(good skill, detestable though)and Gerrard(who's past his best).
Yep. I am pretty happy with centreback.
It's central midfield and our wings that need the most urgent improvement. And if Enrique doesn't pick himself up, another fullback.
They need major fucking investment, simple as that.
Lucas had that decent spell but the way Scousers talk about him you'd think they've had Busquets or Yaya Toure injured - it's fucking LUCAS LEIVA! What about when he was absolute gash? People have short memories.
Skrtel was Liverpool's best player last season - he's their 'Vidic' but nowhere near as good. Agger is injured more often than not, Carragher gets a red face in the warm up.
Johnson is another vastly overrated defender, especially by RAWKites. I remember one of them saying he was a "Rolls Royce of a footballer" once. Fuck off!
Enrique - Looks like that gormless mechanic who went out with the fit bird on Coronation Street. Started off as a superb signing, ended the season looking like a Championship player.
Reina - His best days are behind him, simple as that. Makes too many errors to be considered one of the 'elite' keepers that he was once.
Gerrard - Getting old, the pace in his game is missing now and he relies on that due to his swashbuckling style of play. Still a vital player to the Scousers but that's only because the rest of the squad are gash. He won't mature well like Scholes either who adapted his game well in a deep laying role. Gerrard needs to be behind the striker to be at his best, he looks a bit dodgy in centre midfield / on the wing.
Henderson - Wobble head. Hasn't got a fucking clue about football. Awful player. Won't make it at the top level - Sunderland even said so. Likes to pass sideways.
Spearing - Likes to pass sideways. And to the opposition. Only in the squad because of merit (i.e. he's a Scouser and looks like one to boot). Terrible player, wouldn't want him if I was Wolves manager, let alone the Skip Lickers.
Downing - Seriously, WHAT the fuck is he all about? Awful player.
Kuyt - Very ugly but strikes the fear into his supporters more than the opposition. Scores important goals ocassionally. Been a good servant.
Carroll - I think he'll come good. Throws himself about a lot. Not a top 4 player though.
Suarez - Take away the racism and horrid teeth, he's a fine player. Very intelligent. Won't be at the Dippers season after next.
They're basically a team that's seriously lacking in attacking areas. They have two player whose capable of doing something inventive with one of them well past his best. Players like Downing, Adams, Henderson won't take you into the top 4. They can, at best, be squad players and so, Liverpool need to make a few key signings in attacking positions. That could take them up a notch or two and then you never you know, they might make a strong case for being a top 4 team. But that is the bare minimum IMO, unless the rest implode.
Do people deliberately call him Adams, is it some kind of inside joke I don't get? Or are you doing just to piss me off?
It's fucking doing my head in. His name is Charlie Adam. No 's' in there, not one. You could say I must have more important things to worry about and I do but it's still annoying as hell.
For the final time:
Adams = boozer but bloody good defender.
Adam = pie-eater and a bit shit.
Every squad has injuries. There is no excuses for a team who want's to compete with the best. A club who finish 37 points after the winner and 17 points after number 4 can't say they have a good defense.
I've always wondered the same thing mate.
I'll have a go.
Reina had an off season (two seasons?) but realistically its almost impossible to improve on him.
Doni is a capable starter and thus a good backup.
Skrtel and Agger showed both the extent of their own ability, and the benefits of a sustained partnership this year. For the moment, Liverpool are attempting to reach top 6/top 4, for that purpose this pairing is definitely adequate.
Given Agger's injury history you'd have to say they were lucky to get so many games from the two of them this year.
Carragher is finished. Should retire really, he reminds me of G. Nev's last days.
Coates is a yet unproven talent, but with his combination of size and technical ability he's a point of optimism for the future. It would be foolish to rely on him as the best option if one of Skrtel/Agger goes down, which they are atm.
Worth noting that Kelly can play CB as well as RB
Enrique is a more than competent starter at LB, but he seemed to burn out in the last couple months of the season. Having someone (preferably a youth prospect) to push him for the position and provide a rest should be a priority imo.
Johnson is also more than competent for Liverpool's current ambitions. Crucially he also provides a wide attacking option, which they're in seriously short supply of.
I consider Kelly one of the best young English defenders. He's not exactly Dani Alves, but his defensive solidity is unquestionably. Also a threat in the air. Their best youth prospect imo.
Thus I'd say Liverpool could do with bringing in another CB to challenge Agger and Skrtel, while providing some much needed depth.
A backup LB would be useful, but were I Rodgers it wouldn't be at the top of my priorities.
Lucas - Quality defensive midfielder, should facilitate Rodgers style well as he allows his partner(s) the freedom to get forward. Adequate in possession as well, he's much more than a De Jong/Tiote type.
Gerrard - Aging and seemingly unable to find his role in the team this season. Is he declining? Probably. Hasn't found a way to adapt his game with age the way Scholes did and Lampard is beginning to. But he still provides leadership, goals and is without doubt the best crosser on the team. I'd expect Rodgers to use him in much the same way he used Sigurdsson this year, which should create plenty of shooting chances.
Henderson - Decent young prospect, nothing more, nothing less. When confident and played in position he can be a quality technical central midfield. Has the right mentality for Rodgers system. I think he'll have a much better season next year under a progressive manager, and a year removed from that price tag
Adam - The joke everyone bar Pool fans/Kenny knew he'd turn out to be. Can play a nice long ball, but is useless for everything else and a defensive liability to boot. Assuming Rodgers sticks to his philosophies, Adam has no place anywhere near the lineup.
Spearing - Is pretty shit really, but as a deputy to Lucas he has some worth over a full season. I wouldn't be starting him in cup finals any time soon. Also the ugliest man in the league.
Shelvey - I really don't know much about him, my Liverpool supporting mate thinks he's class. Which probably makes him shit as well. Looks like Lord Voldemort.
All in all its a pretty poor collection. A good DM, an aging legend and a bunch of unproven or proven to be shit players. They need to bring in at least two CMs who can provide a bit of creativity and keep possession. (an Arteta type, for instance). They may as well give Henderson and Shelvey a chance to show what they've got, but Adam has no place there. Its also a gamble to count on Gerrard being fit at this stage in his career.
Kuyt - Would seem to be on his way out. Can't see them bringing in a like for like replacement, they need more dynamic options.
Maxi - Also likely to leave, though we'll see how new management feels about that. While technically proficient, Rodgers seems to prefer a bit more pace on the wings. If he stays he would have an important role as a sub/backup, but that may not be enough to keep him.
Bellamy - Still offers pace and penetration at an advanced age. As we saw last year, he can't last a full season with regular minutes.
Two likely departures, a 33 year old with bad knees, and Steward Downing. Wow. They need to bring in at least two wide players this summer. The rumored Gaston Ramirez would be a good start, if I were them I'd be looking at Milos Krasic as well. Quality on the wings is hard to find and usually expensive, I'd say their ability to find good wingers that offer reliable end product will define their season.
Suarez - Far and away the best player in the side. Keeping hold of him this summer is absolutely vital. An under rated quality of his is how he makes good use of his teammates, which will be important for Rodgers' system. Has to improve his finishing obviously, which I personally think he is capable of. He offers the "spark" that turns possession into penetration. Using him as an out and out striker is not his best position imo.
Carroll - We still don't know who he really is. Is he the player we saw for most of the season that couldn't control a pass? Or the player who came on in the FA cup final and almost brought Liverpool back into it? If he can maintain his form and confidence throughout the season he'll be a solid finisher for them. While a more technical player would be preferable, I think he'll be useful at the very least.
The first thing that jumps out about their forward options is how few they are. Assuming Suarez plays behind Carroll they have no depth whatsoever (bar Bellamy at a stretch). Someone to challenge Carroll at the top of the formation, preferably a reliable finisher with pace (like Hernandez), is essential.
At the back they're probably set for a top 6 challenge. In the midfield and forward areas they look like a team unable to move out of midtable mediocrity. Adding a couple of dynamic wide options and another goal threat would go a long way towards lifting a decidedly uninspiring attack. Also, the possession based football Rodgers favors would seem to necessitate at least one new continental-style CM.
Whether FSG are willing to fund the necessary acquisitions, especially given what happened last summer, will determine if Liverpool can make any progress this season. And should the funds be available, does the club's stature and history carry enough weight to attract the needed calibre of player?
**I can't believe I just spent half an hour of my life doing this.
Me neither ;-)
It's a pretty good summary.
Re Shelvey - I rate him higher than I do Henderson. Henderson has more discipline right now to play central midfield, but I think it's only a matter of time before Shelvey overtakes him. He has real belief in himself and leadership ability as well, which is rare in such a young player.
Assuming we'll play 4-3-3 with Suarez to one side of Carroll, I think the most pressing concerns are a first team central midfielder and and first team winger for the other flank. These need to be good. Get that and it will make a world of difference.
Aside from that, we could with a centre forward.
Lower priorities - a centreback to replace carragher and provide actual competition to Skrtel and Agger, maybe another midfielder as well if we're binning Spearing (I am assuming as a matter of course Chad will make way). Don't think we need a leftback much. Johnson can switch to the left without a problem to make way for Kelly on the right.
If we could sell all of Cole, Downing, Kuyt and Maxi and get ourselves a good new winger I'd do that as well.
The most important thing is identifying and getting a top notch midfielder and winger in. We should basically just spunk our 30m kitty on that and then look at what sales can do to bring in lesser priorities.
I thought they'd get rid of Dalglish, I'll admit, I thought they wouldn't be so bold as to sack him for want of annoying the fans, I thought they'd move him upstairs
I also thought they'd get rid of Suarez, we'll have to see on that one. I suspect they'll keep him, as there won't be many takers for the money they'd want
That list and the dedication you put into it was truly moving stuff. I was in tears reading it. Its like you've watched us with an honest opinion all through the season and I couldn't disagree with a thing you said.
I just want to squeeze your tits.
At least it wasnt a complete waste of time then
Very good post Bebe but I have equation marks regarding their defensive line. They lack strength in depth if Skrtel get's injured. Whenever Carra is playing they are vulnerable and Agger is making to many unforced errors. They where defensively solid with Lucas playing but the question is if he can come back quick enough to be the same player he was before? In their best moments the defensive line is top six quality but as we saw last season, especially after new year, there are to many times when they act as headless chickens and give away cheap goals who cost them points. IMO that's not good enough if you aspire to be top four.
Some people talk about him being an 'excellent midfielder' as if he was Silva or Rooney playing in the hole banging in 15+ assists and or 15+ goals.
I've never understood it. Limited DM's are nigh on useless in a league situation these days. With the pace of the game you have to do everything that little bit more spread domestically. In Europe, in a cagey two leg game then I am all for the limited anchor DM or pureDM.
They are 5 places off being able to challenge for a league title. They have to change the football then the mentality of the players.
Pretty good assessment by Bebe there. With the current bunch of players we have, 5th or 6th is the best we can hope for. To improve on that, Rodgers needs to be more atute in the market than Kenny was 12 months ago.
Essentially they need players in the exact same positions they spent >£100million on.
Separate names with a comma.