Kalidou Koulibaly - part deux

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Sassy Colin, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. May 15, 2019

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    8,031
    Supports:
    Supports good football
    130 mil seems very excessive. No doubt he is decent but he’s not that exceptional. Just like us to let players like Militao, Hernandez, DeLigt go somewhere else then move for the most expensive one that in all honesty I’m not convinced is truly the level that many seem to think he is.

    I honestly can’t believe we never went after Laporte or Virgil. We were linked with Laporte way back when even SAF was still in charge and Virgil was a no brainier. Probably the 2 best defenders in the league now.

    Honestly think scrap the search for a Dof, hire the CAF to run as a committee, we’ll have the club sorted in no time at all.
  2. May 15, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19,964
    He won’t cost anywhere near that. They sold their best striker for 90m to Juve, they aren’t getting more than that for a defender.

    I think they’ll accept around 60-80m at a push, if not we move on.
  3. May 15, 2019

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,969
    Phil Jones not considered clumsy. Was that Wreck it Ralph nickname/meme phase a figment of my imagination then?
  4. May 15, 2019

    MAME DIOUF 32 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,247
    There's a difference between considering Phil Jones clumsy when we've been subjected to nearly a decade of his clumsiness and believing a player is basically the same as Bailly (physical, clumsy, can't pass) because he's from a similar part of the world.
  5. May 15, 2019

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    16,315
    Pretty much.
    Also there is little evidence to suggest he is clumsy as opposed to Jones (who regularly injures himself and teamsmates)
  6. May 16, 2019

    Ballist1x New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2019
    Messages:
    13
    What you're forgetting is that sirea A is effectively an uncompetitive league with 1 great team 2-3 also rans and then a lot of bumfight teams.

    Against poor opposition week in week out I'm sure he looks good.

    The game he needs to perform well he has culpability in two arsenal goals.
    Serie A is an uncompetitive league. 1 top team and 2-3 also rans.

    Sure he can look good week in week out against bad opposition.

    In their biggest game of the season against english opposition he is made to look awful.

    Is that just coincidence or is it because he's overrated and got shown up playing a higher quality team.

    If we bought him and he played against arsenal like that we are no better off than how Phil Jones performed against them.
  7. May 16, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    12,788
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
  8. May 16, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    12,788
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
  9. May 16, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    12,788
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
  10. May 16, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19,964
    Hahaha you do talk some rubbish! He was definitely not awful against arsenal.

    You have to remember he’s practically a 1 man defence. Napoli are so open and his cb partner is not good.

    Arsenal at home can give many sides a problem if you play that open, but he made 1 mistake all game.

    I seriously don’t get how people can watch him and not think it’s a good idea? He would improve our build up play from defence so much! That’s worth paying the money alone.

    He’s pretty much a Smalling and blind rolled into 1 player, what’s not to like?
  11. May 17, 2019

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    13,486
    Location:
    #SmallingPlusOne
    For all the talk of KK and Lindelöf, and I appreciate that ball-playing is given so much importance now - but I think Smalling and KK would be a real rock of a central defence, and if the deal happened, I’d expect them to start as first choice.
  12. May 17, 2019

    shamans Hoser

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    12,143
    Location:
    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    If we want to finish top 4 it might work. If we aspire to win the league, Smalling ain't gonna cut it.
  13. May 17, 2019

    Sterling Archer Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    2,699
    Honestly, I'd like to see us get in the top 4 consistently for three seasons. And not scrapping by. Comfortably. That would be a good start. So whatever that takes.

    I like when Jose was realistic about it. I like that Ole has changed his tune to be more realistic. It will help us get there.
  14. May 17, 2019

    gr3yham3 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    978
    I think Lindelof and Koulibaly will be first choice. Smalling can come in when we play against teams with battering rams. None of the top teams have strikers who are battering rams.
  15. May 17, 2019

    Cal? CR7 fan

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    33,065
    That’s not how things work. If you aim for top 4 consistently, you end up with Arsene’s Arsenal.

    Players grow old. So whoever helps us get consistently to top 4 will need replacing soon enough and you end up perpetually in those positions
  16. May 17, 2019

    Sterling Archer Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    2,699
    We have only been in the top 4 twice in the last six seasons. It's fair to say that we're a 'Top 6' team right now. I'd like to see slow but sure progress. So get us in the top 4 consistently. But unlike Arsenal, who stopped pursuing more, I'd like to use that as a platform to then consistently challenge for the title.

    'How it works' is a strange thing. We could do what you're suggesting and spend millions and millions of dollars to get the quality of the squad up to challenge for the title more immediately. I am 100% for that. I don't care about existing contracts. I would love to see us just sign the players we need and let the others not in plans force their agents to get their moves sealed in time or rot away til the contracts expire. I give no shits about balancing our budget.

    But on the flip side I see a lot of fans doing the math selling and trading players to create some sort of balance sheet for the club. Talking about managing contracts and all that. It's more realistic perhaps but that means we will have a much harder time challenging for the title right away. Because before we sign players of that quality we need to actually convince them to join a mess of an organization and team that is, right now Europa League regular. Not a Champions League giant. So we likely have to sway them with exorbitant wage structures to even get them here.

    So realistically, a bit of a slower moderated approach is the best and probably how it will work out. And being in the Top 4 every year is a start to that improvement.
  17. May 17, 2019

    flappyjay Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,914
    The Arial duel stat concerns me a lot. How it that Lindelof who we consider average at best in the air better than him?
  18. May 17, 2019

    pocco loco

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    14,366
    Location:
    Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
    That's where Smalling comes in. No point stressing about that when there's not many teams that play that sort of football in the PL these days. When we come up against them then we'd just drop Smalling in, who barely loses an aerial dual.
  19. May 17, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2017
    Messages:
    3,831
    Location:
    Skopje, Macedonia
    That aerial duels won is a concern to me, we lack a dominant CB in the air apart from Smalling, so Koulibaly won't improve that by the looks of it.

    On the other side that stat about tackles per possessions is a good indicator for how Lindelof plays and his passive way of defending, it's a big difference and a concern that Victor must improve.
  20. May 17, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19,964
    Yep, horses for courses.

    No point having 2 lumbering giants against 3 nippy midgets.
  21. May 17, 2019

    flappyjay Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,914
    Glen Murray, Benteke, Troy Deeney, Rondon, Kane not a brute but saw him destroy Jones in the air, Calvert Lewin. There is still a lot of these big 9's. But has you you said Smalling could remedy that problem.
  22. May 17, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19,964
    Lindelof is quite small for a CB, but also not physically imposing either. Koulibaly is a much broader/stronger defender who doesn't get muscled quite as easily as Lindelof.
  23. May 17, 2019

    flappyjay Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,914
    Going by those stats above (stats don't tell the whole story) lindelof wins more Arial duels than Koulibaly.
  24. May 17, 2019

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2000
    Messages:
    89,213
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Worse in the air than Lindelof!?

    Do.Not.Want
  25. May 17, 2019

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    16,315
    Ariel yes, everything else no
  26. May 17, 2019

    Infra-red Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,983
    Location:
    left wing
    Aerials won per 90 mins (and win %) of a selection of CBs:

    Van Dijk 4.8 (74%)
    Maguire 4.2 (78%)
    De Ligt 4 (66%)
    Smalling 4 (63%)
    Milenkovic 3.2 (64%)
    Jones 2.9 (71%)
    Tah 2.3 (72%)
    Andersen 2.3 (53%)
    Koulibaly 2.2 (55%)
    Lindelof 2.1 (59%)
    Skriniar 1.8 (46%)
    Bailly 1.7 (63%)
    Alderweireld 1.6 (52%)
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  27. May 17, 2019

    OleGunnar20 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2018
    Messages:
    121
    This is a worry.
  28. May 17, 2019

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    16,315
    Where does De Ligt fit? He seems quite good in the air
  29. May 17, 2019

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    13,464
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    And Lindelöf will?
  30. May 17, 2019

    settembrini Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,680
    That tweet gives the impression that Koulibaly being better than Lindelof is a hot take that will surprise people. Obviously Koulibaly is the better player, that's why he will cost about 3x as much as Lindelof did. I wonder what tweets we can look forward to in the future, a stats comparison telling me that Messi is better than Mata perhaps.
  31. May 17, 2019

    Infra-red Full Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,983
    Location:
    left wing
    He is pretty good and compares favourably with Smalling.

    De Ligt 4 (66%)

    Vidic's old numbers are still available, too, so by way of comparison, in 2009/10 he won 4.6 aerials per 90 (74% win rate), which I guess puts him about on par with Maguire and Van Dijk in that regard.
  32. May 17, 2019

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19,964
    I guess it depends what they count as a duel?

    Is it a standing jump where they're both together? maybe Koulibaly attempts to challenge for headers he knows he won't win, but might disrupt the striker? That'll be seen as a lost duel but still might be good defending. Stats aren't the best way to determine these things really.

    From the eye i'd take Koulibaly over all our centre backs any day.
  33. May 17, 2019

    Nickosaur Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2011
    Messages:
    8,816
    Maguire and Koulibaly it is. Go on Ed, will only set us back £160m!
  34. May 17, 2019

    Le Red Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    253
    Lindelof operated really well in the WC alongside a more experienced and commanding CB. If we get that kind of player to form a partnership with him I think Lindelof is ok.
  35. May 17, 2019

    Cal? CR7 fan

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    33,065
    The problem with that is, except City, there are 5 teams fighting for 2 spots, consistently finishing top 4 does nothing when you have a bad year and fall out.

    We could have challenged for the title this past season if Woodward did the sensible thing and went for Cristiano Ronaldo. I'm convinced Real would have been okay with it if we offered them 20-30m (half a Fred) on top of Juve's offer.

    Any idiot will challenge for the title with the GOAT.
  36. May 17, 2019

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,969
    True. Wouldn't call Bailly clumsy though, just rash and erratic. Bailly moves well, looks classy on the ball, every inch the modern ball playing CB, Then has 5 mins of looking like he has never played the game and/or is engaged in some massively advanced form of sleepwalking.

    Haven't seen enough of Koulibaly to make a judgment and stats alone are pointless.
  37. May 17, 2019

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    13,464
    Location:
    Player Performance Threads
    Think I trust the guy more who we’ve challenged the league with already tbh.

    Albeit don’t think either are good enough long term.
  38. May 17, 2019

    Suv666 Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,355
    Dont care about the stats, I've seen KK play, he's twice the defender Lindeloff is.
  39. May 17, 2019

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2000
    Messages:
    89,213
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Is this the same Smalling that everyone wants to sell?
  40. May 17, 2019

    Adnan Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2013
    Messages:
    12,788
    Location:
    United Kingdom, England
    Not everyone
  41. May 17, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    48,800
    Location:
    Aliens are in control of my tagline & location
    Of the 13 factors, KK wins 10, but somehow, the only one that matters is aerial dules won. :lol: