Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by jojojo, Jul 2, 2018.
I couldn't agree more. It is actually a very straightforward thing to deal with.
Again, it is a personal insult, our language is vast in ways to curse, and even some expressions can look personal or not depending on the effort or the emphasis you put in the curse, not the words. You can call anyone "Hijo de puta" and 99% of the time it would be shrugged off, but if you say "eres un hijo de puta" or "hijo de la gran puta", you're using the same insult but putting effort on, making it personal.
"Tu madre" is a common curse, and probably no one would eject you for saying that
"La madre que te pario" is a little more intense, you probably just get a yellow, a red if you're on the bad side of Mateu Lahoz
"Tu puta madre" enters realm of 50/50, your're testing the ref patience, you'd probably be sent off if you are looking at him while saying it.
"La puta madre que te pario" merges two curses, with two articles poiting at a single individual, it's pretty much as personal as you can get in Spanish by using less than 10 words.
Even Simeone said that if that's what Costa said, the ref did the right call, Costa version says that the ref misheard "te" (you) for "me" (me in English to), that's another whole topic. If you believe what he said is no biggie, next time you're in Spain use that expression seldom and see what happens.
Pique has gotten sent off for abusing the ref in a game vs Bilbao so yeah it kind of goes against the narrative and agenda you're trying to show here of big club bias.
This is exactly the same as what Costa has said and yet @Peyroteo is on here since yesterday trying to make it look it's something that's only happened because it's Barcelona.
That Costa elbow on Lenglet could easily have been a red. It was a yellow at the very least.
I'm aware of all of that, I'm portuguese. It's the same.
I mean that it's not personal because he's obviously not trying to offend the ref on a personal level... just complaining in the heat of the moment. It's not the same as using the same expression outside of a football pitch.
I've called referees every name under the sun and was never sent off for it. Insulting the ref lets them have the power of making a decision and it's such an unregulated part of the sport they can do whatever they want with it, from ignoring it, giving a yellow or giving a red. They have to manage the game and he did a terrible job of it yesterday, I can't say it's a bad decision because he's well within his power to do what he did but imo it's the decision of a bad referee.
Then I'm doing a terrible job of it by literally saying the exact same happened in other games with other teams.
Two weeks ago after the exact same thing happened in Benfica vs Dinamo Zagreb, I wrote this here:
It doesn't happen because it's Barcelona, it's entirely dependant on the circumstances of it though as it gives the referee way too much power by allowing him to do everything inbetween completely ignoring the player or sending him off depending on how his mood is like. A lot easier to send off an Atletico player than a Barcelona player at the Camp Nou in a game like this. That's obvious. It has nothing to do with the actual club. Same way that Atletico will have a lot more decisions going their way at home. Sending off Pique in a meaningless game isn't the same.
Real Madrid and Barcelona players complain and insult referees more than anyone. Is there one example of a Barcelona or Real Madrid player being sent off for the same reason in a match as big as this?
During the Mourinho years they stopped short of killing the ref and still the refs had enough common sense to understand it was part of the game.
This is what I alluded to in my post that you quoted. The way I see it, it is a bit like when a referee give a penalty for a dive, realises that he made a mistake and tries to make amends by; should the occasion arise; give a penalty to the other side just to even things up.
I watched the action in real time and in slow motion, and the ebow that sent Lenglet flying was clearly no accident of any kind. It was deliberate and it was a shame that the referee didn't consult his linesman or vice-versa. The fact that Costa didn't receive a yellow card for that demonstration of thuggery just goes to show how bad the referee was in that game. With that being said, he knew that he had to even it up now, because if Costa had scored, then it would have been controversial (since he should have received a straight red for the deliberate elbow. I am guessing that if Costa hadn't used his elbow, he might just have got a yellow for the verbal abuse, and that would have been the end of it.
So, when they say that the referee totally changed the match by sending off Costa, he most certainly did. Costa got away with elbowing a player and got away with it, and got a "get out of jail free", card. When he finally got sent off, the referee had to take everything into consideration i.e. the deliberate elbow and the verbal abuse received and decided that it was no longer worth it having such a hostile player playing in a big game.
I'm sorry but if a player is going to get that person and as vile in their abuse as both Pique and Costa did, I find that red card, irrespective of the occasion or magnitude of the game, a fair decision. Whether it's Classico or a game against Rayo at home, if you can be that vile you deserve what you get.
I'd also have no issues if Suarez started getting banned too if and when he crosses the limits like Pique and Costa did. As the post above by @Ishdalar explains, it's just not acceptable what Costa (and Pique in the past) have said.
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That's a different argument though. If it was applied like that every time a player insulted the ref I'd have no problem with the decision.
As it stands the ref has the freedom to make whatever call he chooses to make, from completely ignoring it to sending a player off.
The guy is totally cardproof . Forget dissent and abusing he doesn't even get a card for biting players
This is ridiculous.
So you're saying Diego Costa swore at the ref because of the intense pressure only football creates? This wasn't even a penalty decision. He was arguing about a trivial decision in the middle of a fairly trivial game (league is almost over).
It's quite simple really: if anyone abuses the ref, send him off. Apply that consistently and people will stop doing it, just like how stricter refereeing has eliminated two-footed tackles.
I don't know how anyone can think dissent adds anything to the game. Or as a rabid Ronaldo fanboy do you simply enjoy a bit of petulance?
You throw every abuse imaginable at my comments, at Mourinho or at Ronaldo during matches and you're talking to me about how dissent doesn't add anything to the game? You more than anyone should be aware of the emotion a football game causes.
The culture of the game is entirely different to a sport like rugby, especially in southern Europe and South America.
If it was applied consistently and they sent off every single player that did it I'd have no problem with it. The problem I have with it is they don't and just pick and choose when to do it.
That's absolute balderdash.
Plenty of sports are multi-million £/$ "industries" but it is only football that allows it's players to harass/abuse referees. The authorities really need to crack down on this sort of thing for a few years to eradicate it and move to what other sports allow, e.g., only the captain can talk to the ref. Unfortunately, I don't think there's the will from football authorities to stamp this out.
personally, I don't give a shit about consistency as long as referees do the right thing. Costa insults him - he gets red, it's that simple and that's should be done every time a player does the same thing. just because certain referees are afraid to do the same doesn't make yesterday's decision wrong. they represent authority on the pitch, not the players, and they shouldn't be under pressure to tolerate insults from players. doesn't matter whether it's Costa or Messi, whether it's the first minute of WC final or 93. minute of friendly game. you insult referee's mother, you feck off from the pitch.
I'm talking about how the rules are currently applied, not how they should be applied.
I'm in favour of sending off players for insulting the ref as long as it applies to absolutely everyone. That's not how it works today though.
As it's currently applied with refs only sending off players for abuse only when they feel like it then they need to be able to take it in these big moments and have some common sense instead of ruining the game to protect their egos.
@Peyroteo The referee ruined the game when he allowed Costa to get away with a deliberate elbow a good 15 minutes earlier on Clement Lenglet. This is what you actually fail to address and you are just concentrating on the abuse that Costa gave to the referee. I am pretty certain that most posters here who watched the match in its entirety (regardless of who they like in La Liga) are in agreement that Costa should have seen a red a great deal earlier. If Costa had scored in between the time he deliberately elbowed Lenglet and the moment he was sent off in the 28th minute, don't you think that the Barcelona players and fans would have felt somehow aggrieved? I think so yes, but I am pretty certain in my mind he gave a red card simply because of the elbow (which Costa got away with) and also the personal abuse that was aimed at the referee. Diego Costa cannot have any complaints at all, considering his history.
I'm talking the ref abuse, not what happened earlier or for the rest of the game. Ref made a lot of mistakes throughout. Imo that elbow wasn't a red card, it should have been a yellow. The idea that the ref knew it was a red card, decided not to give it only to purposefully make up for it 10 minutes later is nonsensical.
Barcelona win the league no matter what happened yesterday, I'm arguing in general. It's a joke how much the ref decisions vary from game to game and from referee to referee when being insulted by players. It's entirely dependent on the mood of the ref and the teams at play rather than following the rules.
Caparros announced he has leukemia. Sigh. Ánimo leyenda.
No hatred at all. But being abusive isn't nice, right? that's what i wanted to point out
Football culture is different but it can change.
Agree about the consistency. Its not fair but most rules are inconsistently applied.
Ah that's really sad especially after Berrizo last year. Thought he was showing his age on the touchline last few Sevilla games. Is he stepping down now or well enough to continue to end of the season?
Best wishes anyway.
Lo Celso such a good player.
If he really is not wanted at PSG he wouldn't be the worst option for Manchester United tbh. I rate him pretty highly.
Oh Santi....stop reading my advice!
Barca, Real, Arsenal, Tottenham are all linked to him.
A terrific player imo.
I don't know... It seems he is suffering the chronical type of blood cancer, which does not necessarily mean that he will be in constant discomfort or difficulties. However, I am not sure if it will be possible for him to continue. Considering the stress a football manager has to endure in a everyday-life of the job, I can't see him risk his health to continue. We'll see tomorrow.
Havent Betis got a buy option for 40m? I would take him here for that price
I believe so and they'll activate that clause. That's what I remember reading anyway.
Also, despite a slow start, Canales has been magnificent for Betis. I've been very impressed with Lo Celso but Canales has been just as good, in my opinion.
Very dirty-minded Peyro.
That's because they attack a lot, constantly, and they have to be stopped brutally. For the same reason they used to get so many penalties.
Only just realised the other day they loaned Inui out to Alaves where he's popped up with a few goals. Surprised he didn't make more impact at Betis given their issues in the final third.
When you consider that Barca have had Messi and Neymar and those are two of the most fouled players for top clubs around Europe, it's hardly a surprise opponents get so many red cards. The two of them are among the finest dribblers around and quite often (as we see with Madrid vs Messi), fouling them seems to be the only way to ever stop them.
As for Madrid having so many reds, well, there's Ramos
Suarez having such few or zero reds is very surprising though and it's something he has gotten away with for most of his career. For a man of such indiscipline, referee abuse and biting abilities, he's rarely ever gotten any red cards through his career.
Fouls won per game in La Liga in the last 5 years:
Barcelona - 14.58
Real Madrid - 13.86
Red cards for the opponent in La Liga in the past 5 years:
Barcelona - 36
Real Madrid - 16
In the past 5 years, Barcelona ends up playing 1 in 5 games against 10 men. I don't think there are any corruption conspiracies, they're just the best team I've seen when it comes to influencing referee decisions. And I mean that as a compliment.
Is there anything to Casemiro being benched 2x in the 3 games after his suspension?
Real Betis paid 3 Million euro for the Loan and the have an option to get 80% of Lo Celso's rights for an additonal pay of 22 Million euro.
I don´t think so. One game Llorente played and the next Valverde. It seems that these weeks he wants to test all the players and there were many changes in the team. Almost all have been on the bench
I am not a Barca fan, but most of their players have the kind of close control that draws more fouls. And they have Messi, who probably has the best close control in the history of the game. Madrid, as good as they are (were), they just don't have those kind of players nor do they play that kind of a keep-ball game.
it's worth mentioning the fact that Barca are rather soft team, they don't really have thugs in their first 11 neither they are coached to kick the shit out of opponent like Atletico. who's gonna get red carded there? Messi? Rakitic? Busquets?
Luis Suarez? The likes of Kaka and Bale were sent off more often for Madrid than Suarez for Barcelona.
The difference in red cards received is understandable though, Atletico are thugs and Madrid have more dirty players. What's weird is the huge difference in red cards given to the opposition.
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According to COPE, decision will come out tomorrow and Diego Costa will serve an 8 match suspension for insulting the ref
Are they tring to make an example out of him? What a weird decision.
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