Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by jojojo, Jul 2, 2018.
What did Gareth Bale do there?
I mean, after scoring.
Did Bale just do that sign at the athletico crowd?
Perfect result today...
...for FC Barcelona.
Imagine giving Bale that much space.
No, I didn't. Could've done that again to settle it. I'm still sure that a human decides when the ball is passed which will have an impact in very tight calls.
I can already hear Simeone bitching about the referee in his press conference.
They've been getting fecked over by VAR week after week before tonight
Very impressive by Madrid to come back from the dead to looking like a very good team, Vinicius starting completely changed the direction of their season.
Great timing for it to happen too just before the Champions League restarts. Still don't think they'll win it but now I don't see them having any problem to go past Ajax.
Solari's pragmatism paying off... only the 2nd time RM beat Atléti in the league since the latter broke their derbi curse back in 2013.
Is he actually 18? Looks 30!
I still don't know why Lopetegui didn't give him more chances.
Feels like that late win at Betis with the Ceballos FK has changed Madrid's season. Picked up form for the CL as per usual although I don't expect them to win it.
Back comfortably in the top 4 which was looking dodgy a few weeks back. Atletico's title bid is pretty much over. Season that has never really got going for them.
Real Madrid only 5 points off Barcelona, still in the Copa Del Rey and still in the Champions League
Never believed this comeback under Solari.
The whole team looks very concetrated at the moment, ready for every game.
First place is still unrealistic for me, but hopefully the Copa at least.
I thought they'll show it again for Morata but didn't happen. I don't like VAR the way it is right now. Helps with offside calls but in game referee decisions can not be challenged by teams. Should be like tennis.
Think Real were a bit lucky today. The penalty was probably just outside the box and Morata's disallowed goal was difficult to call. Fair play to Solari for turning it around though.
Solari is probably the first coach that has applied meritocracy at Madrid since Mourinho, and before Mourinho since Capello.
I mean, using Reguilon over Marcelo, Vinicius and Lucas over Isco and Bale, Llorente when needed etc. He took very hard decisions and showed great personality in all of them.
Bale might get into some trouble for this celebration
Think it was a foul on Vini before Griezmann's goal too.
Griezmann must be loving his decision right now. Loving it.
Edit: Goal chalked off by VAR. Point would still be good from this.
I was just going to say it has been disallowed.
Class goal to be fair.
When Bales' on form he's got the second best left foot in football,after Messi ofcourse.
Rayo lose anyway in 95th minute.
Rubi survives for another week.
Huesca 2 up at Girona at half time....they couldn't could they?
Reminds me of I think Crotone in Seria A a few years back who were dead and buried for most of the season and then won 5 of their last 7 and stayed up.
I think Lopetegui had a very definite idea of how to play with a lot of passing, very much mirroring the strength of the Spanish national team he had managed. In that scheme, players like Isco and Asensio had a much bigger role. Vinicius was not only young and raw, but probably too direct for his liking.
Hopefully Bilbao get a result tonight. Would like them to stay up and have a good title race, not another Barca procession.
Few difficult choices for Valverde with Messi and Dembele maybe not 100% fit and a huge run of games at the end of the month for Barca, CL away game against Lyon on 19th, away league game at Seville on 23rd then back to back away Classicos, firstly in the cup on 27th then the league game on 02/03.
That is a seriously brutal run of fixtures that could decide their season. If they play Messi today and get's more seriously injured or bring Dembele back to fast could derail the season. Valverde got things right so far but big test for him coming up.
Getting excuses ready for what? For Messi failing? That is only in your imagination, I'm afraid.
I'm a Barça fan and my first priority is for the team to achieve success. I love Messi, he is my favorite player, but I would not prioritize his success or his status over that of the team. No true fan would.
It doesn't strike you as completely illogical that Barça fans would be creating excuses for Messi? I know it seems counterintuitive at first, but think about it. No one has a bigger interest in Barça's success than Barça fans, right? This is logical. So if Messi is the reason for our "failures," why would we exempt him from criticism? This doesn't make sense as we'd be doing the opposite - holding him accountable for Barça not having a couple more Champions League trophies in our cabinet.
What is also funny is the idea that other fans know more about Barça's strategy and importance of certain players than Barça fans who watch every match.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the worst fanbase out there. I know we're not winning any sympathies, but that seems exaggerated.
When I started visiting football forums, it was clear people hated Barça fans because of the Mes que un club thing, the emphasis on our style of play and all that. It was always odd to me that a large number of people would share animosity toward a fanbase because of that. Now Valverde plays poor football but grinds out results and you wonder why we're not happy. For the same reason we used to be happy with tiki taka - because we want to see great football, not boring close wins against mid-table teams. If not for Messi, we'd be playing like Juventus ffs.
We are successful in absolute terms, but not so much in relative terms. We haven't challenged for the Champions League since 2015, so if we have the best squad in the world, what gives? That seems contradictory to me, that the best team in the world with a great manager cannot challenge for the biggest trophy. Not only that, but Valverde managed to get knocked out against Roma and dropped the undefeated league record conceding five to Levante.
Do you actually watch Barça play?
Yep. Pep never finished undefeated, but his teams will be talked about for a long time. No one, not even Barça fans, will be talking about Valverde's teams once he's gone. I actually hope this is Valverde's last season with us, so enough said. I just don't feel we can compete with the best.
Messi is absolutely not playing next to average players. I don't think that's the argument people are making. What's clear, though, is that when Messi is on the pitch, everything gravitates towards him. This is due to both the manager and the players. Of course, "give the ball to Leo" is the easiest tactic in football and, as we can see, it can win you a domestic double, more than one actually. Problem is, that tactic is exposed in the big Champions League games. I can see the look on Rijkaard's face even now, back in 2006-07 when his game plan consisted of begging Messi to score.
Pep's four years were different as he is the only one who created a real team around Messi, while the others just used Messi as the entire system, as you say. But this is not Leo's fault. If anything, it's a compliment. I have not seen any other player influence a team so much and for such a long period, only Leo. As for the players, they are not average by any standards, but their mentality and way of playing doesn't help. They look for Messi too much, you can see it in their body language, the way they position themselves to receive and pass the ball, always wanting to find Leo. Messi is surrounded by world class players who do not play like they are world class, they all take a step back and wait for Messi to solve the game. This is why I don't think we can compete, because Leo can't beat everyone on his own.
Just look at Suarez's performance in the 5-1 win vs Madrid, and his performance in the 1-1 Copa game. Suarez is a great striker and he is capable of taking on responsibility and leading his team to a win, but he doesn't do that. Why? Because of the tactics that revolve around Messi and also because he suffers from the same thing as the rest of the team - they all defer to Messi. They know whetever they try, Messi can do it better and more effectively so they leave it to him, and in doing so the entire weight of the team is put on one player. The thing is, Messi is the only player capable of carrying this weight and he does it season after season. He is not one to shy away from taking on different roles and assuming responsibility, hence our domestic success. He essentially replaced Xavi and Iniesta by himself. The Champions League, on the other hand, is a lottery, it's much more difficult to win because one average game puts you out and we feel this every season. This season will be the same because I don't see anything on the pitch that tells me otherwise - they're all standing there watching Messi create our football again.
So, in conclusion, I would say it's both the tactics and the squad. And when I say squad, I don't mean the lack of quality in the players themselves, but rather their inability (or lack of will) to take on responsibility and step up when Messi is on the pitch. It's the same story every season.
Valverde is a defensive coach who has Messi in his team.
What happened to Betis?!?! Lost 3-0 against Leganes
All hail Leganes.
"El Lega" has conquered your heart, or was the pepino?
It's their president and fanbase etc! I just liked the story of how the club staggered it's way up the league and how hard they've fought to hang on.
In any case, Setien was quite catty about them after the match, so I feel obliged to be their defender. They do their best - which is basically what the Leganes manager said in reply.
I have to admit that I was not a fan of filling the Primera with teams from Madrid, maybe because I identified them with Getafe, which is not very popular, but as you say, their president seems nice and has nothing to do with Angel Torres
Eh, I wanted a draw.
Anyway, I'm more concerned about the Bilbao vs Barça match. We are completely unpredictable this season.
How was Morata yesterday.
Didn't play that strong a side, Jese actually started upfront for them who I forgot existed after his non-existant spells at Stoke and PSG. They were resting players for Valencia second leg whenever it is.
Leganes now about 6 points off top 6 which shows how crazy bottom half is.
2 defeats in 13 for Leganes, Pellegrino doing well there.
Sevilla slumping a bit now, that 4th place might open up with Valencia and Real Sociedad improving a lot last 6 weeks.
Eibar 2-0 now. They were near bottom 3 few weeks back, now 6th.
He's not a bad manager tbh, had a great season with Alaves. Just a bit defensive minded and that obviously wasnt a good fit at Southampton.
If this result holds six point difference between 6th and 15th.
Indeed 9 points between europa qualification and 18th and relegation.
Premier league difference is 26 points between 6th and 18th.
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