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Lack of acknowledgement to this season's difficulties

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by TheReligion, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Feb 22, 2018
    #1

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Firstly this isn't an excuse thread. It's about facts and acknowledging that whilst this season is turning into a disappointment for some when it comes to playing style there are reasons behind this that I feel aren't being recognised.

    1) Not having a regular back 4. Injuries have hampered us in this area and as we all know in order to have true cohesion at the back you need a regular centre half pairing at the very least.

    2) Missing our best centre half. Eric Bailly has played 10 games this season. Marcos Rojo, who was exceptional last term, a similar amount.

    3) Pogba being injured at key times. Despite the nonsense spouted recently he's out most creative outlet. He was hitting peak form then was hit by injury and a red card ban. Imagine City minute KDB this season.

    4) Lindelof slow start. Didn't hit the ground running when we needed him to.

    5) Zlatan returning and failing. No opportunity to rest Rom as planned. Knew it was a gamble but didn't work.

    6) Sanchez coming in January. Notoriously difficult to come in this period. See Evra and Vidic. Expect a much smoother front set up next season. Understand fully why we got him. Opportunity arose which couldn't be refused.

    There are likely more but what I'm saying is things haven't been easy this term so I fully sympathise at times with the way we go about business. Yes it's not pretty but it's obvious why we are running smoothly just yet.
  2. Feb 22, 2018
    #2

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    Considering it's "not an excuse thread", those are definitely very nit-picky excuses.
  3. Feb 22, 2018
    #3

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva

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    No team has everything going their way.
  4. Feb 22, 2018
    #4

    RedSky likes to kick 10-year-olds Scout

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    It's a squad game these days, those are excuses TR. We've had far worse injuries in a season, in fact this year we've had it relatively easy in comparison. I remember past seasons we've had almost all of our CBs our injured and had to resort to playing Carrick and youngsters at CB.
  5. Feb 22, 2018
    #5

    Judas Open to offers

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    Any team could look for "reasons" that make their season difficult, even City. Daft thread.
  6. Feb 22, 2018
    #6

    Nytram Shakes Full Member

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    :lol: good point!

    for me when you break it down we are were we should be expected to be in the league and cups, but it just feels like were doing worse because watching us play is so drab at times it sucks alot of the enjoyment out of it. If we were exactly were we are now except the football was more exciting to watch people would be talking about us having a very good season.
  7. Feb 22, 2018
    #7

    Rifer Full Member

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    Good effort.. still, the team should have perform better.

    Shall we all have some more patience with the team? Despite those difficulties, we're not doing that bad.
  8. Feb 22, 2018
    #8

    AshRK Full Member

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    I understand the purpose of this thread and somewhat I agree with some points but the problem is not results it's just that we are regressing in attacking play. There's no cohesion while attacking, you can clearly see no plan on how to attack as a collective unit. And the worse part is , it is getting worse with each game. Jose clearly is spending more time focusing on opponents and our defence and is not spending enough time on how to improve our attacking patterns.
  9. Feb 22, 2018
    #9

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    Patience is definitely lacking but what's new there

    For the record at the start of the season I predicted us to finish 2nd, win no trophies (after last season's double) and to reach the quarters maybe even the semi finals of the UCL. So far we're on course for all of those things. Next season will be the real make or break one in my opinion. I'm not suggest we have to win the PL or UCL next season but we have to start looking like the end game is in sight. So far there's been steady progression and signs we're clearly heading in the right direction but not enough to suggest we're really on the cusp of something really good
  10. Feb 22, 2018
    #10

    cyril C Full Member

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    Back4 injury was only temporary. Most noticeable was the Huddlesfield loss (3 points) and I don't think the Leicester draw was anything to do with injury. Yes it was injury but more to do with losing the brain at critical moment. Zlatan is never a problem this season since we have recruited Lukaku, and in fact the game that both started was a problem. Sanchez coming in Jan was our own creation, we could have bench him but Mourinho insisted on starting him every game, without knowing how to use him.

    As for Pogba, was he really hitting peak? Just a few good games but also a few really bad games, definitely not the same as KDB IMO.

    In short, we have had some problem but none more than team management problem created by Mourinho himself.
  11. Feb 22, 2018
    #11

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    Nice try, but you know they're a fecking miserable bunch of cnuts in here.

    We could win the CL and they'd still moan.
  12. Feb 22, 2018
    #12

    walkinhop Full Member

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    Maybe English not being my first language hampers my ability to understand this thread. Could someone point to me if mentioning specific issues with negative results is not an excuse, what is?

    The way i see it, if I try to summarize this it would read "the above mentioned difficulties have hampered our performance and results BECAUSE we are unable to figure out a way to overcome these difficulties"
    The second part is always being omitted when some is making excuses. "This and that happened and the result is negative", instead of admitting "This and that happened and I was unable to find a way to cope, thus my inability resulted in negative outcome".

    Poop happens, it's the ability to deal with it makes or breaks the situation.

    In top football, you have a whole organization there to help prepare for every outcome. It takes planning and risk-management to achieve success while overcoming problems. Poorer teams must deal with +1 huge factor as they are disadvantaged from the get go. Their organization and resources are a handicap when dealing with larger peers.

    Now, something plenty of people ignore when talking about our predicament is the importance of a clear plan, its non-existence to be precise. It would much easier to brush individual negative events, the odd mishap, the occasional disaster if the bigger picture is there for everyone to see.

    We've heard about the sub-par players left behind the previous coaches, we've heard other things too. At this point, neither money nor personnel are scarce, so why do we not see the ladder of progression.

    I honestly can't look at us and say "Yes, we are clearly moving forward towards the vision of the club, towards the end product. We can swallow disappointments because they are just a part of the road. The clear road, which is success"
    All i see is a group of people who are randomly put together with tho hope, and i repeat, hope that they produce something.

    This is as much of a fault of the upper leadership as it is of the manager.
  13. Feb 22, 2018
    #13

    TheReligion Abusive

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    You disagree with the points? That would contribute much more worthwhile discussion if so.
  14. Feb 22, 2018
    #14

    goin4glory Full Member

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    You should include Lukaku being a complete dumpster at holding the ball up/linking with others or being able to play in tight spaces.
  15. Feb 22, 2018
    #15

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Carrick has been missing most of the season too. Would have been helpful?
  16. Feb 22, 2018
    #16

    Pelé as a Comedian Banned

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    Erm, mate. Most of the difficulties you've listed are regarding your defense (and you even omit addressing your left back issues) when defense hasn't been your problem this season, its your midfield (lack of options/fresh legs) and attack (shoehorning great talent into unfamiliar positions, lack of form).

    Mourinho hasn't so far managed to get the best out of Pogba, needs more midfield options and hasn't got your attack fully clicking, yet. It's as simple as that.

    Also, thank you for listing acquiring Sanchez from a direct rival as a "difficulty". Made me chuckle.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
  17. Feb 22, 2018
    #17

    rocks13 Banned

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    Other than Bailly missing these are fairly lame excuses at best with the bottom 3 really just coming down to poor management.
  18. Feb 22, 2018
    #18

    red4ever 79 Full Member

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    3 of your 6 points concern our defensive unit. Havent we been saying the same for years? Our CB's are never fit. Our CB's are not good enough. Our FB's are former wingers. Embarrassing really that we still talk about this. Get rid of Smalling, Rojo Young. Sign a top class CB to partner Bailly and sign a new RB and LB
  19. Feb 22, 2018
    #19

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Yeah i agree
  20. Feb 22, 2018
    #20

    rocks13 Banned

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    You agree that we should get rid of Rojo but used his absence as one of you excuses.
  21. Feb 22, 2018
    #21

    JoaquinJoaquin Full Member

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    I agree in some of your points that we have had some bad luck. But at the same time Jose has created alot of the problems for himself in selections, tactics etc. Like the Smalling / Jones fiasco, He had Rojo on the bench and Lindelof in the stands against Newcastle. That isn't bad luck. That's just bad management.
  22. Feb 22, 2018
    #22

    diplomat Banned

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    A lot of these excuses come down to bad management. Mourinho has not managed this squad properly, has not foreseen the possible huge problems we might face due to injuries in different positions and has also gambled a lot on some of his new signings, most of which haven't really paid off.
  23. Feb 22, 2018
    #23

    TheReligion Abusive

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    You're really hard work at times. Don't take everything so literally. I agree Jose has put too much faith in what he inherited and perhaps we need a full rejig at the back.

    That said we don't have the capacity of City to spend 500m on a new defence.
  24. Feb 22, 2018
    #24

    Verminator Full Member

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    Playing like a bunch of strangers, even against lower opposition (when you should be able to impose your own game), suggests that you're bemoaning the availability of the decorations, when you haven't even bought a tree yet.
  25. Feb 22, 2018
    #25

    Unmutual Banned

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    Those just seem like the normal things that happen during a season tbh.
  26. Feb 22, 2018
    #26

    rocks13 Banned

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    I realise that was slightly pedantic but you have to expect that when you make a list of excuses and half of them boil down to the fact that our defence isn't very good.
  27. Feb 22, 2018
    #27

    Harry190 Full Member

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    Manchester United is not in the business of looking for excuses or moping.

    Some of the players at this club have become complacent, thinking they've made it, living off former glories. The swagger is gone.
  28. Feb 22, 2018
    #28

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    Some of those points are arguably the club's fault though - bringing back Zlatan was always a risk considering his age, and a poor signing can't really just be excused as unlucky in the case of Lindelof, even if we're hoping he'll come good. All clubs have to deal with injuries - back in the 06-09 era there were plenty of periods during which we were missing Rio and Vidic, but we managed to adapt. After 06-07 Neville was pretty much a permanent crock until he retired and we only got one year out of Hargreaves.
  29. Feb 22, 2018
    #29

    Axkiko New Member

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    Other team got similar issues as well. City lost Mendy and Kompany, L'pol lost Clyne and Coutinho, Tottenham lost Alderweireld and Wanyama.

    Injury is part of the game, don't find it as an excuse.
  30. Feb 22, 2018
    #30

    Borden Full Member

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    LvG was hampered by injuries too, it didn’t save him.
  31. Feb 22, 2018
    #31

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    I'd say 1,2, and 4 are hardly reasons seeing as we've the best defense in the league and you can never expect all your defenders to stay fit and new players in the PL to contribute straight away.

    Pogba, yeah, injuries haven't helped, but again, every team suffers injuries.

    6, well at the start of the season nobody thought we would have Sanchez and we were up there as favourites for the league, so it should be seen as nothing other than a massive bonus to have him as opposed to him being signed in Jan being a valid reason for any issues.

    5, meh, did anyone really expect Zlatan to come back and be good? I didn't. Our attack should still be plenty strong enough without him.

    I just think none of those points are valid reasons for our problems, we have a huge squad with great depth, if the manager can't deal with a few injuries that's on him. And they're nothing compared to the injuries Fergie used to have to deal with.
  32. Feb 22, 2018
    #32

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Couldn't most teams come up with a similar list of "excuses"?

    Liverpool
    1. Sold best player half-way through season.
    2. Unable to sign main central defensive target until half-way through season.
    3. Unable to sign main central midfield target (deferred until next summer).
    4. No settled back four (see point 2)

    Spurs
    1. Been unable to play first-choice central midfield (Dembele-Wanyama) for almost whole season so far
    2. Best central defender (Alderweireld) injured for three months, mid-season
    3. First-choice left back injured for most of season
    4. Sold first choice right back in the summer
    5. No settled back four (see above)
    6. Didn't sign anyone of note in the summer
    And so on...

    EDIT: Feck. Writing that down makes Spurs' campaign/recent form seem even more impressive. Don't tell Glastonspaz.
  33. Feb 22, 2018
    #33

    Sensei Banned

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    and Lallana
  34. Feb 22, 2018
    #34

    Sensei Banned

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    To add..
  35. Feb 22, 2018
    #35

    Massive Spanner Thinks Geoff Shreeves has one

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    Exactly. There were literally times Fergie had to play midfielders at centre back and vice versa. Mourinho doesn't even know the meaning of injury problems!
  36. Feb 22, 2018
    #36

    rocks13 Banned

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    In fairness the OP didn't even mention Fellaini's injury in his list of excuses.
  37. Feb 22, 2018
    #37

    Marcky411 Full Member

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    I must agree that we have had a couple of bumps along the way, no worse that other teams. We can all think up excuses why our season is the way it is or why players aren't performing. The bottom line is our play seems to be getting worse, 18 month with Mourinho and we are playing the same dire football we had to watch under LvG. This season has not been a season of progression but regression and that after the players brought in. Last year we were all complaining about how wasteful Zlatan was with his chances and now we keep hearing how starved Lukaku is for service. We used to seem to have a game plan, resorting to long balls to Fellaini as a plan B, now we don't seem to have a plan B any more. Last year this time we were getting ready to play the League Cup final, now we didn't even reach the semi finals. I can carry on with more examples but the bottom line is there seems to be no direction in our team, style of play or even seeing any signs of what Mournho is trying to accomplish at Utd. We are now 18 months further and no further than when we started on this path 18 months ago. How many really believe we are going to win any silverware this year?
    Looking at the game against Sevilla last night I am dreading the spanking we might get from Chelsea this weekend and if we play like that against Liverpool, well lets just say top 4 will be a hell of a challenge.

    It might seem that I am all doom and gloom but I am mostly an optimist and I am still hoping/waiting for the silver lining to our season and that the team starts clicking and we have a strong push until the end of the season.
  38. Feb 22, 2018
    #38

    edgar allan Full Member

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    Yeah we could win the CL, but not at all likely on current form.
  39. Feb 22, 2018
    #39

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    I don't think you understood my post.
  40. Feb 22, 2018
    #40

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    All valid excuses listed in the OP, but it doesn't make it any less of an excuse thread innit?