Lack of Champions League football and Transfers

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by MyOnlySolskjaer, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Jul 5, 2019
    #1

    MyOnlySolskjaer Creator of Player Performance threads

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    I think after this window we can accept that it actually matters?

    We've missed our on crucial signings like Jadon Sancho, possibly De Ligt and some real difference makers and see Pogba, Herrera and possibly De Gea all wanting out.
    For those saying otherwise, do you still believe that it hasn't impacted us?

    I'm not saying we're having a bad window by any means, I'm delighted with AWB and James could be handy, but surely this debate can be put to bed?
  2. Jul 5, 2019
    #2

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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    The odd season doesn't matter. When it is 4 out of 6 though, that is when players start asking questions. We desperately need to get back in for next year, League and Europa will be a big focus this year.
  3. Jul 5, 2019
    #3

    bucky Full Member

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    De Gea not signing a new contract and Pogba wanting to leave probably would have happened, even if we managed to come 4th. The problem is, that we are not surrounding those players with other players that are good enough, hence us not challenging and them wanting to leave.

    I'm also not sure, if our transfer policy would have been any different, if we had CL football. Wan-Bissaka and James we most likely would have signed nontheless.
  4. Jul 5, 2019
    #4

    witchtrials Full Member

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    Yeah, this sounds about right to me. When you can pass it off as just one freak season it didn't matter so much, but not being in it is the norm for us at the moment.
  5. Jul 5, 2019
    #5

    ArjenIsM3 Full Member

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    Obviously it has impacted us.
  6. Jul 5, 2019
    #6

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Exactly right.

    Missing out once can be dismissed as a blip. Several years of either missing out on or narrowly securing (before later limping out of) CL football goes beyond that and is a sign of a club in crisis.

    A player looking at coming to Manchester United right now can see that we have been floundering as a club for years and has little reason to think that will suddenly change. For some players (including the likes of AWB, James, Maguire, Longstaff) that only matters so much as playing for United is still a significant step up, even when United are struggling.

    However, if I was a player who already had CL football and was confident I could move to several top CL clubs, I wouldn't be coming to United this summer as there isn't a good reason to do so beyond money. That probably wouldn't be the case if we had only missed out on CL football the once.
  7. Jul 5, 2019
    #7

    Rifer Full Member

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    For sure it has impacts and it matters, but not to the huge extent many fans seems to think it has, at least imo for 'players to United' not yet.
    If United keep on this 'lowering reputation' they've been doing season after season, then definitely it'll get worse and worse.

    Do players think like how general football fans think? I think not.
    Surely we have to also consider a lot more factors other than just that one -- CL.

    For the current transfer window specifically,
    • information enough?
    • transfer policy/planning.
    • players confidence of manager's capabilities.
    • players perceived strength of squad.
    • "Lack of transfers because no CL only" is wrong.
    • quantity of transfers over quality?
    we have to consider we're not actually privy to the club actual dealings (transfer policy and plannings). I mean it wouldn't be surprising if Ole and Ed are done with transfers in, the two players are enough, because Ole want to use more of the youths. It's also possible Ole and Ed are seeking for just one or two more but the specific negotiations are ongoing unless you want Ed and whoever else in charge to be incompetent and pay ridiculous over high prices just so to get it done. Some transfers dealings with certain clubs can be like a time chess game. So that may explains the lack of transfers.

    Seriously though, manager's "perceived" capability in the eye of players can also play a huge part. Pogba and De Gea allegedly wanting and considering leaving likely has to do with that. I'm sure Pogba rejoined us because it's "an unfinished personal business" of his and the fact that Mourinho is perceive to be seriously building a strong squad with Zlatan leading the charge at that time, so in a way it's more convincing. De Gea also stay longer during Mourinho era despite the rumours of him leaving back then. I'm sure Herrera will stay longer and cut down his wage demand if he perceive the club will properly challenge competitions next season, alas the club runs in a way giving bs star players eg. Sanchez and somewhat ridiculous low rated players high wages than they deserved and more extensions, so he won't miss much, family to take care of and think about, so focus on retirement plan and joining PSG to boot who have more chances winning stuffs than United atm are not a bad deal at all.

    Ambitious players join and stay because they're convinced.

    Lack of transfers doesn't meant it's only because of CL. LVG signed shit load of players seemingly at random when we got no CL. Mourinho only signed 4 players and that's it. Look at other top clubs eg. Chelsea and Arsenal, who also got no CL at specific past seasons, and still quality players join em, same with us. As if players think differently than how general football fans think.

    Surely quality matters more than quantity. Sensible and "right" transfers. I mean how many players do you want to be convince the club is heading in the right direction. Yeah I know it's difficult to tell with the current United, but surely if the club signed 5 to 10 random players, I'm sure there'll be criticism of no planning eg. a lot of players that joined LVG's first season is not his type of players. Mou's 4 players are his type of players, quality signings, eventhough the outcomes doesn't actually prove it. Anyway AWB and James are definitely a long term players, and has the potential quality value.

    Long story short, meh who knows, we can only speculate then strangely many tend to assume it's the truth.
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  8. Jul 7, 2019
    #8

    Bearded One Full Member

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    It has affected us surely. There are a few things we can and need to do better though
  9. Jul 7, 2019
    #9

    ottosec Full Member

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    Of course it matters.

    But we have it even worse at this time: we have an average team and our only two top players want out, and we're not looking like we're gonna improve any time soon. We also have a manager with little experience at the top level.

    All these things become very important when there are many rich big clubs around.
  10. Jul 7, 2019
    #10

    Tango80 Full Member

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    I wouldn't say we 'missed out' on this players, Sancho was never going to be sold, and de Ligt chose Juve (plus we should stay away from Raiola)
  11. Jul 7, 2019
    #11

    sun_tzu The Art of Bore

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  12. Jul 7, 2019
    #12

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    It's not just CL football, it's a total lack of challenge for the title. The likes of Sancho and De Ligt won't sign for teams who aren't close to titles challenges.
  13. Jul 7, 2019
    #13

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

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    This although it's 3 out of 6 no? Failed to qualify under Moyes once, LVG once and Mourinho/Ole once, either way it's too often
  14. Jul 7, 2019
    #14

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    We are a Europa League club.
  15. Jul 7, 2019
    #15

    OutlawGER Full Member

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    The problem these days is that there are more top clubs than top players.
  16. Jul 7, 2019
    #16

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    It pisses me the feck off to say this but I do truly believe had we finished 4th we would have signed Sancho by now. The way we ended the season was disastrous and embarrassing. Can't see many top players being eager to join such a mess.
  17. Jul 7, 2019
    #17

    Champ Full Member

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    The only way it's impacted us is in terms of money.
    No champions League has meant we have to offer more money to the players than we would had we been in the CL.
    I don't think many players are that fussed by champions League if the right money is offered.
  18. Jul 7, 2019
    #18

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    Do you think Sancho didn't come to us this season because we didn't offer enough money?
  19. Jul 7, 2019
    #19

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    What makes you say this really? He is seemingly loving it in Germany, only one season into his contract and clearly the starting RW with the sale of Pulisic. I don’t think him leaving was ever on the cards.
  20. Jul 7, 2019
    #20

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    There was never a story of any actual bid, that leads me to believe he simply said he was happy where he is.
  21. Jul 7, 2019
    #21

    2 man midfield Incestuous Modern Woman (Dumper!)

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  22. Jul 7, 2019
    #22

    El Zoido Full Member

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    The club is badly run and we just look to be a poor side. Missing out on CL is a result of this.

    Players don’t want to join in to instability, they want to be part of something great. We look more likely to slide backwards than get back on top, why would anybody want to sign up for that?

    Become a total neutral for a second and look at it from a purely objective standpoint. If you were a world class young professional footballer coveted by multiple top clubs around Europe, what exactly would make you want to pick Manchester United ahead of another team? It’s not going to be to play under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer I can tell you that. It’s a really hard sell when we have to cross our fingers that every player we go for is a United fan or has a soft spot for us already. The alternative is offering a massive salary.

    Also we’re reaching a point where the best young players will only have been reading about our glory days in history books. A 19 year old hot prospect wouldn’t even have been born when we did the treble, and most of his formative footballing memories would have been after the age of 10+, seeing us lose a CL final, win the league a couple of times, then become almost an embarrassment post-Fergie.
  23. Jul 7, 2019
    #23

    Champ Full Member

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    Yup. Plus he would have cost too much. There was no bid made.
  24. Jul 7, 2019
    #24

    Bestofthebest New Member

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  25. Jul 7, 2019
    #25

    ayushreddevil9 Full Member

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    There wasn't any bid because there wasn't any agreement in place with him. It was widely reported that he wanted to play in the CL.
  26. Jul 7, 2019
    #26

    Thiagoal Full Member

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    Liverpool have got back to challenging, not by signing the likes of Sancho, De Ligt etc, but scouting and buying players that suit the style they want to play! None of the likes of Salah, Firminho and Mane were heralded but have turned into world class players! This is what we need to replicate, not galactico types
  27. Jul 7, 2019
    #27

    InLevyITrust Full Member

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    I just think he said he was happy where he is, uprooting himself from England, a choice that not many young English players do and then settling and doing very well. It just makes absolutely no sense for him to go through it all again less than a year later.
  28. Jul 7, 2019
    #28

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    He's doing well there over at Dortmund yeah but I think it was Ornstein who said he wanted to come here and we had made him a priority signing but after the end to our season his head turned because he felt hesitant about joining an unstable club. So it's all really speculation in the end but I do usually trust Ornstein.
  29. Jul 7, 2019
    #29

    Bestofthebest New Member

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    Sorry, just back from hols and hit the wrong key.

    Anyway, I agree with most of what you say but I can point out things have been worse than this before. We were always able to sign players when we were no where near winning tiltles ( thanks to Liverpool ) constant swapping and changing of managers and relegation. Even when we got Fergie the change was not dramatic but we happened to have a very talented crop of kids coming through and we amazingly acquired Cantona, which I believe was the greatest single thing we did to start winning titles. I believe Utd still has a certain magic for a lot of people and this is also the cause of the almost universal hatred of us by supporters of almost all clubs. Which team do supporters look at as soon as the fixture come out? Why Utd of course.


    At the end of the day footballers are a mercenary bunch and will go where the riches are with the hope of winning titles a secondary concern. There are always exceptions to the rule and not all players are good enough to walk into teams like Real, Barca and even City where winning is more probable.

    We need to sit tight right now and hope to hit on the right combination of players, manager etc. and that the hierarchy of the club come to realise that the club could be better run in terms of structure and planning. However, do not think things will ever change in regards to the fact we will always pay premium fees for players and higher wages.

    Once again apologies for initially sending your message unanswered.
  30. Jul 7, 2019
    #30

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    That’s not strictly true. History has shown us at multiple teams that players will sign for clubs if they can be convinced that they are part of an ambitious project

    If the likes of Pogba and DeGea were that hung up on the CL then maybe they should have thought about that in the run-in last season instead of arsing around
  31. Jul 7, 2019
    #31

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

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    This, I think most players realise nothing is guaranteed. And if you miss a CL year here and there that is fine. But when you are in the Europa league more often than the CL it is a paradigm shift. You are drifting away from being considered European elite. You drift too far for too long and you end up in the 'a club with a great history' category.
  32. Jul 7, 2019
    #32

    SportingCP96 Full Member

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    If it’s an odd season it does not matter BUT when missing CL football becomes a trend it will absolutely begin to impact the quality and level of players you can sign.
  33. Jul 7, 2019
    #33

    Lee565 Full Member

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    Liverpool had Klopp to help draw players in, the reality is if the club had shown any real ambition and sense they would have not gone into this summer window with Ole as manager, had we brought in a Potchettino, Allegri, Conte or a really up and coming manager with great promise and created an image of an ambitious project to be competitive at the very top as soon as possible then it would have players excited to join us over other big clubs.
  34. Jul 7, 2019
    #34

    Mr Pigeon baldy fatty bum bum

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  35. Jul 7, 2019
    #35

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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  36. Jul 7, 2019
    #36

    Mr Pigeon baldy fatty bum bum

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  37. Jul 7, 2019
    #37

    Stobzilla Official Team Perv

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  38. Jul 7, 2019
    #38

    Mr Pigeon baldy fatty bum bum

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  39. Jul 8, 2019
    #39

    R'hllor Full Member

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    I really believe that for us in our current state looking in general being CL or not means feck all, doubt we missed any specific targets nor those targets would come to us if we had CL. I mean check our transfers since SAF, CL or not its similar shit.
  40. Jul 8, 2019
    #40

    Affirmation Full Member

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    If we had secured a Champions League place and/or hired a manager like Mauricio Pochettino I do think our Summer Transfer Window would be playing out differently. I believe we would have managed to retain Ander Herrera and other players like Paul Pogba who I think would be more willing to stay. By doing this we could of fixed a lot of our squad issues with just four quality signings which I would like to believe this is the direction we would of followed.

    I could of still seen us signing Aaron Wan-Bissaka but with other signings such as Matthijs de Ligt, Jadon Sancho and of course Tanguy Ndombele especially if Pochettino was indeed our manager instead.

    Taking all this into account, we could of seen a team similar to this:

    (4-3-3)
    GK: de Gea
    RB: Wan-Bissaka
    CB: de Ligt
    CB: Lindelof
    LB: Shaw
    CM: Ndombele
    CM: Herrera
    CM: Pogba
    RW: Sancho
    ST: Rashford
    LW: Martial