Lack of English players in PL teams?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by golden_blunder, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Feb 10, 2018
    #1

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Note the Watford team today;

    Team to play West Ham: Karnezis, Janmaat, Prodl, Mariappa, Zeegelaar, Holebas, Capoue, Doucoure, Richarlison, Deulofeu, Deeney

    Subs: Bachmann, Ndong, Gray, Lukebakio, Carrillo, Pereyra, Mukena

    I count 1 English player in the first team

    Looking across a lot of the PL teams it seems that there are less players at the highest level of the English game. Is this a problem for the national team going forward? Would you like to see a rule change to ensure each league game squad should have a certain number of squad places reserved for English players
  2. Feb 10, 2018
    #2

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    There's a dearth in quality English players right now, so naturally top sides are looking elsewhere for talent.

    However, the next generation of English players look really promising, to the extent that you could argue we have the best selection of youngsters coming through in the world. Future is looking bright for the England national team.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  3. Feb 10, 2018
    #3

    Ian Reus Ended 14 years of Grand National sweepstakes

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    It seems to be more of an issue in England than any of the other top leagues.
    And no doubt it is detrimental to the national team too.
    I blame the Tories.
  4. Feb 10, 2018
    #4

    RedRom "Where's Lingard?"

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    Hummmm, Smalling, Jones, Lingard, McTominay, Rashford, and Shaw, yup a real lack of Englishmen there from ourselves!

    So yeah the "lesser" teams might struggle to put English players out, but let's not say that we do, or lump ourselves into that same category.
  5. Feb 10, 2018
    #5

    Number1 Banned Verified Moaner

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    As you say there's a great pool of English players coming through, all are just waiting for a chance, but that takes time and time is something a lot of Premier League clubs don't have as it's the Premier League is one big fight for survival for a lot of teams, so they go for proven quality.

    Buying already established Premier League players costs a lot of money, buying overseas you can get bargains and that's what happens.
  6. Feb 10, 2018
    #6

    RedRom "Where's Lingard?"

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    Have a go at the rest of the league for not doing their bit, but leave us out of this, we have plenty of English players playing for us!
  7. Feb 10, 2018
    #7

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    I know that united are the best at having a core of English players, Fergie always made a point about it.

    Out of interest to the United fans above, why are you taking it as a knock against united? Stop being so precious

    I was talking about the league as a whole. There are a lot less English players at that level than there was in the 1990s for example.
  8. Feb 10, 2018
    #8

    Schmiznurf Full Member

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    Because some people didn't get hugged enough as children.
  9. Feb 10, 2018
    #9

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    Seems that way sometimes, people always on the defensive
  10. Feb 10, 2018
    #10

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    You can not be surprised that the top clubs are not always giving time to young English players but, it is embarrassing how few minutes teams in the rest of the league have.
  11. Feb 10, 2018
    #11

    AltiUn likes playing with swords after fantasies

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    I think one of the biggest factors is that this generation of English talent is of much lesser quality compared to previous years, not only are the very best English players not as good as previous generations but also players who aren't internationals are of much lower quality too. Lower PL teams used to be riddled with relatively decent (and I daresay good) English players who never really had a hope of making it into the National team.

    The knock-on effect of this is that all the best English talent is hoovered up by the top 6 teams and the rest look elsewhere for cheaper foreign talent who can do a better job. The premium on English players with actual quality has caused even bang average players to go for ridiculous amounts which just isn't viable for lower PL teams. I don't think there should be any rule set in place regarding homegrown talent; our younger age groups have some real genuine quality down there, a new generation of far more gifted technical players than the one's we're used to seeing.

    Due to the talent in the young age groups and what looks like more of a willingness to go abroad at a younger age for game time (Sancho, McGuane, Oxford) will put the England squad in good stead in the future but I think we'll see more and more of the best English players going to play abroad in the near future.
  12. Feb 10, 2018
    #12

    Raees Boing Boing Baggies

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    I wouldn't want any restrictions on first XI but squad wise I'd like minimum of three British players in squad, one minimum academy graduate and possibly you have to have one British player play 15 mins minimum every game even off the bench would count.

    Sub British for English if you want but something along those lines wouldn't be too intrusive but also help the domestic international cause.
  13. Feb 10, 2018
    #13

    Man of Leisure Full Member

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    Being non-English myself, I could care less. Rather see the best in the world compete even if it means to the detriment of the England national team.
  14. Feb 10, 2018
    #14

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    Every time restrictions like that were used it failed miserably. And Germany and the Netherlands do not really have any foreign restrictions yet domestic players always get a chance in those leagues.
  15. Feb 10, 2018
    #15

    Jagga7 Full Member Scouse Lover

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    There's so many mediocre foreign players in the league. I bet a lot of the teams would be better of playing some of their academy players.

    I think they should implement a rule where there needs to be at least 3 British players in every match day squad.
  16. Feb 10, 2018
    #16

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    It’s a fair point. Common denominator? Money. Those teams aren’t as cash rich as their PL counterparts so in a way they are forced to develop their own players. So is money killing the English game slowly?
  17. Feb 10, 2018
    #17

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    But, there is so few PL clubs who are getting the best of their resources right now.
  18. Feb 10, 2018
    #18

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    The talent isnt there. The problem is at the roots obviously. Was talking to a friend about a Steven Caulker as he went to our school and he was adamant that Caulker was distinctly average at football yet hes played for Spurs, Liverpool and QPR. Maybe a problem with talent spotting and coaching?
  19. Feb 10, 2018
    #19

    FromTheBench Full Member

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    I think those spots will most likely still go to experienced plodders than young academy players who are inconsistent.
  20. Feb 10, 2018
    #20

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    I have always felt the issue is that in other countries clubs have had structures in terms of player recruitment and youth development for decades. Most English clubs did not start doing that until last decade.
  21. Feb 10, 2018
    #21

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Dont care one bit. Players were spat out their mothers vagina on a different land mass. Big deal.
  22. Feb 10, 2018
    #22

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    It just popped into my head that it may reach breaking point when brexit kicks in. Some of the players getting in now, may not in 2 years time. Perhaps forcing clubs to look internally again?
  23. Feb 10, 2018
    #23

    Jagga7 Full Member Scouse Lover

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    Yeh you're right. Managers are under such pressure to immediately get results it makes it impossible for them to experiment with younger players.

    But looking at an extreme example in Harry Kane. Tim Sherwood of all managers gave him a chance and he has blossomed, young players can only improve by playing and given a chance.
  24. Feb 10, 2018
    #24

    pcaming Full Member

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    doubt european migration will be affected that much
  25. Feb 10, 2018
    #25

    Chipper Full Member

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    I can understand the top teams doing it as they literally have the pick the world's talent pool available to them.

    Less so with teams like Watford. Ok, they're wealthier than the top teams in say Belgium, Scandinavia, Eastern Europe and mid-table in teams in just about every country that isn't England. Still, they seem to have a lot of unremarkable/very ordinary players in their match-day squad don't they? I'm sure they could develop or even sign the odd English player from the Championship or below that is as as good as a few of those.

    Edit: Thinking on, even signing players form the Championship can be expensive, can't it? Some go for over £10m these days. Developing their own is something they could do though. A few solid/ordinary English players with a few overseas superstars. Right now they have lots of imported ordinary players.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  26. Feb 10, 2018
    #26

    Kag Full Member

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    I'm sure I read recent reports suggesting that PL teams are beginning to play more English players than years previous?

    It certainly feels that way. Clubs like United, Spurs, Burnley and Southampton have embraced this for a long time now. Even Arsenal went through that stage of recruitment before it inevitably fell a bit flat.

    Grassroots football in the UK is thriving and I expect the numbers to improve. The ignorant caveman rhetoric so often associated with English football is largely unfair because we're definitely moving forward.

    On a more general note, I'd definitely agree with the opinion in here that there is too many thoroughly average foreign imports playing here.
  27. Feb 10, 2018
    #27

    SalfordRed18 Full Member

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    Are you English?
  28. Feb 10, 2018
    #28

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    It's nothing new in the English game, when Liverpool came to Old Trafford in the mid 80s it was often a case of spot the Englishman, Lawrenson was English but he played for The Republic, there were very few other, if indeed any, at the time.
  29. Feb 10, 2018
    #29

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Yup. I find the idea of patriotism nauseating though. Rather celebrate cultural differences and individuality than the idea that being born somewhere should define you and somehow give you special dispensation.
  30. Feb 10, 2018
    #30

    SalfordRed18 Full Member

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    Think it's less about patriotism, more about it being detrimental to the national team. Surely you can see that?
  31. Feb 10, 2018
    #31

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    Don’t care much for international football. The FA is more interested in the Endland National Team TM than actual football. Big names over cohesion.
  32. Feb 10, 2018
    #32

    Oscie Full Member

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    I think the bigger problem is that English players rarely ever travel to play overseas. Quite bizarre how there seems to be a near-blanket aversion of English players plying their trade in Europe. They'd rather sit on the bench or transfer to another club in the country. Especially given how comfortable French, Italian, Spanish, Africa (etc) players seem to be playing elsewhere away from their country of birth.

    "Spain? That's abroad innit. Get guts ache eating their grub. Rather sit on the bench. Don't speak the lingo geeze either innit"
  33. Feb 10, 2018
    #33

    nokillingmoths Full Member

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    I think its that its generally easier for a foriegn player to intergrate into the PL because english is universally learnt. If you are english you're sort of fecked.

    What do you learn? German? Ah, napoli want you! French? Real betis want you! Italian? Porto want you. Don't get me wrong its not impossible as we proved in the 90s but its tricky.

    Its easier to integrate in the uk then it is to integrate to a random european country.

    Edit: plus the £££££. Would you work in betis for half what you could work in southampton for? No.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  34. Feb 10, 2018
    #34

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

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    There is more English players playing abroad than you probably realize. The major difference in wages between England and the rest of the World in terms of wages means most British/Irish players are going to stay in England. The same reason that Italian players rarely went abroad when Serie A was top dog.
  35. Feb 10, 2018
    #35

    Chipper Full Member

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    There's no chance French, Italian, Spanish and African players would come here in the numbers they do if they could earn more back home.

    Play in England, in the cold, for less money when I don't speak the language or have any any friends or family over there while eating pot noodles and fish and chips? Rather sit on the bench in Spain.
  36. Feb 10, 2018
    #36

    Harry190 Full Member

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    British rather than English. We usually have the best Englishman in the land though. Not this time around however, Kane is still at Tottenham.
  37. Feb 10, 2018
    #37

    lysglimt Full Member

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    We have a few - but to say we have plenty isn't quite true is it ?
  38. Feb 10, 2018
    #38

    balaks Full Member

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    England have no top class central midfielders. This is why they will continue to win nothing.
  39. Feb 10, 2018
    #39

    diplomat Banned

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    Firstly, for a supposed tolerant and understanding ideology, your way of thinking is so bloody narrow-minded that it's actually funny, because you obviously believe yourself when writing this nonsense. There is a huge difference between patriotism and nationalism, which is where your second sentence is wrong.

    Secondly, you would not be able to support actively Manchester United as the arguably biggest club in the world in modern football if you weren't English and if the club wasn't established thanks to the opportunities that England provides to individuals and organisations. I imagine if the team was to change countries all of a sudden, you wouldn't be so eager to celebrate anything and would likely be very pissed off.

    Thirdly, a strong national team could drastically improve both the overall quality of the league, as well as provide a way to reduce the enormous amounts of spending that are going on in the Premier league, compared to other countries. It also would provide an opportunity for the local kids to have a future, develop better and in general create a good environment for people to prosper.

    Lastly, Manchester United has always had a stong core of British players, staff and international representatives, The history of this club is what makes it so special and it would have never been the same if it wasn't English and situated in the circumstances throughout the decades. I am not English or British myself, but I always want to see such players, whether coming through the ranks or being bought at a young age, more experienced ones and the veterans leading the pack, because most of them understand the true meaning of the club far more than most foreign player can (there are obvious exceptions to the rule in our case). The intensity of football rivalries, both outside and inside the stadiums, is being destroyed as for most players, these games don't mean much more than the rest and they have only heard or read about what is behind them in terms of the history. I want to see more players fight for the badge and shirt, and not just play for the money or the possible accolades they could earn.

    This is all my opinion, it's not gospel, but the way you took a very hard stance on your opinion and arguments, it spurred me to provide a different point of view.
  40. Feb 10, 2018
    #40

    baskinginthesun Full Member

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    To be fair, he is flirting with being Scottish (at least in footballing terms). So not quite the full English yet.