Lionel Messi

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by cesc's_mullet, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. May 3, 2012

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

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    Dude, this is so disappointing from you. To hide behind "if you don't understand, sorry" when you've just been called out for a nonsense argument... I thought you were a bit classier than that
  2. May 3, 2012

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

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    That cracks me up for some reason. :lol:
  3. May 3, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    I don't think that this is the language of anyone making assumptions. I quite clearly leave open the possibility of there being information to counter what I am saying and also use the word 'decades', which to my mind is best used to describing a period of time ranging from 20 - 50 years.

    The response that you jumped on was an impulsive one to Deto after a quick fired post exchange and was ill considered.

    I never referred to the season that you and Brwned supplied stats for. I referred to the 1961 season when Pele scored 62 in 38 giving him his highest gpg ratio of 1.63gpg.

    That said, thank you for posting the more in depth information on the Brazilian league, it sheds more light onto the easily accessible raw data. Care to share your sources?
  4. May 3, 2012

    Marcosdeto Moderator

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    so the only way you will think i'm classy is to admit that it wasnt a lucky goal, wich i think it was, and i explained why

    so be it
  5. May 3, 2012

    Gazza Magic Carpet Pilot

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    No, but then again that's not what I said and you're clearly beyond putting in effort to this discussion.
  6. May 3, 2012

    Snake Plissken Aka LTS10

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    Yeah thats it :lol:

    I don't need any reason, people can poke holes or find fault whichever way they want.

    No offsides probably made it a tad easier for attackers but you never read about that do you?

    and if people don't think smacking the ball on a crap surface doesnt make it tough for goalkeepers, then they probably never played football on a crap pitch.
  7. May 3, 2012

    Marcosdeto Moderator

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    we are starting to sound like an old couple

    i'm into swinging, what do you say?
  8. May 3, 2012

    Skorenzy Full Member

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    I was actually responding to the following passage that you wrote:

    "[...] tell me with a straight face that this isn't the most attacker friendly era in the history of Spanish football."

    Which it factually isn't.



    I've carried out for some while research on some notable players throughout history, specifically on their appearance and scoring records (assists too where possible) and the competitions they played in. Incl. Pelé, Gerd Müller, Cruyff, Maradona of past greats, and Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Rooney of current players (also have the European records of Raúl and RVN).

    For Pelé I've summarized the seasons 1957-1962 so far. The sources used include the book "Pelé: O Supercampeão" by Orlando Duarte (a sport journalist in Pelé's era), which details every goal ever scored by Pelé (incl. club friendlies) and RSSSF which details historic results of competitions.


    My main point on Pelé is merely that his domestic stats are inflated because of the relative weakness of the state championships (both by contemporary and modern standards). That's not to say that Brazilian football was weak; it wasn't, as proven by its international success. Neither were they defensively inept as is often shouted about by the modern generation. It was simply a tactical climate perfectly suited for attacking football (the so-called 'W-M formation', a 3-2-5, still being in use, but especially 3-3-4s and 4-2-4s being popular in 50s/60s Brazil).

    But back to my point:
    *Pelé's career record in the Paulista (state championship of São Paulo): 412 apps, 470 goals (1.14 gpg). Mythical.
    *Pelé's career record in inter-state/national championships (against the top teams of his own and other states): 193 apps, 119 goals (0.62 gpg). Impressive, but mortal.

    His Copa Libertadores record is quite impressive as well (15 apps, 17 goals), but not unmatched by contemporaries like Alberto Spencer, José Sanfilippo or his own team-mate Coutinho. He was also only once top scorer in a season.


    If there had been a real national league from the start of Pelé's career instead of at the end of it (1971), I highly doubt he would have maintained a scoring average similar to that in the Paulista.
  9. May 3, 2012

    Skorenzy Full Member

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    You've fallen into a logical trap there.

    How exactly do modern footballers gain an advantage over past players if the conditions within their respective era's are the same for everyone?
  10. May 5, 2012

    Homeomorphic Banned

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    I'll just leave this here.

    [​IMG]
  11. May 5, 2012

    Orton Ati-virus, keeps missing the n button

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    Amazing. Could have went down at least 5 times in that one move.
  12. May 5, 2012

    MaroonPondlife Banned

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    Sums up what makes him the best player in the world by some distance ... the drive & determination, the close control, and the vision & passing execution.

    Unparalleled. Nobody comes close.
  13. May 5, 2012

    kouroux Full Member

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    I love the way he gets past Pepe,a "simple" body feint can be so devastating when timed correctly and Messi is a master at that
  14. May 5, 2012

    Ish84045 raisa84045

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    :lol:
  15. May 5, 2012

    Orton Ati-virus, keeps missing the n button

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    71 goals now is it?
  16. May 5, 2012

    Ish84045 raisa84045

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    71...plus how many assists now?

    Ridiculous.

    Messi.
  17. May 5, 2012

    Ish84045 raisa84045

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    Raining penalties!!! 72 coming up?
  18. May 5, 2012

    Ish84045 raisa84045

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    Touching moment. Leo and Pep.
  19. May 5, 2012

    Raven Blade Dull

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    Are you kidding me? Where did this extra flurry of goals come from? With those numbers he's surely gonna clean up the individual awards again.
  20. May 5, 2012

    Dan Aka Lumines

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    How many games left to play for Barcelona?
  21. May 5, 2012

    KingEric7 Conspiracy enthusiast

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    The touch for that hattrick goal was absolutely stunning. To control the ball at that pace and to knock it so perfectly into his path to set up the shot from so far away the goal...magic.
  22. May 5, 2012

    Marcosdeto Moderator

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    two

    one more in la liga and the copa del rey final game
  23. May 5, 2012

    Dan Aka Lumines

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    Has he scored any goals for Argentina this season?
  24. May 5, 2012

    Jimy_Hills_Chin Desperately wants to be ITK

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    10 more goals then! What chance do Bilbao have? Should be a great game at the least.
  25. May 5, 2012

    Marcosdeto Moderator

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    funny how you disapeared from this thread Cal?

    just before ronaldo missed that penalty against bayern munich :lol:

    we miss you cal, we really do :angel:
  26. May 5, 2012

    Skorenzy Full Member

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    5 goals and 4 assists in 7 appearances for Argentina this season.

    edit: and still 2 club games (league + cup final) and 2 international games (WC qualifier + friendly v Brazil) coming up
  27. May 5, 2012

    Homeomorphic Banned

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    2 goals in 4 games in the WC qualifiers. And a hattrick against Switzerland in a friendly.
  28. May 5, 2012

    Marcosdeto Moderator

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    a hattrick against switzerland

    the only game he played for argentina this year
  29. May 5, 2012

    TheHorse'sMouth Full Member

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    My favourite part of that is the first touch using his right foot and then shifting it onto his left. That and the shuffle to get away from the 4th man before slipping the ball into the runner. Messi is unmatched.
  30. May 5, 2012

    Dan Aka Lumines

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    I assume those Argentina goals are included in the 72?
  31. May 5, 2012

    Homeomorphic Banned

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    No, they aren't. :lol:
  32. May 5, 2012

    bosnian_red Full Member

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    The amazing part is, they aren't :lol:
    50 league goals as well, crazy. Never seen or heard anything like it.
  33. May 5, 2012

    Skorenzy Full Member

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    No.

    50 goals in La Liga
    14 goals in Champions League
    2 goals in Cop del Rey
    3 goals in Spanish Super Cup
    1 goal in European Super Cup
    2 goals in Club World Cup
    =
    72 goals in all competitions for FC Barcelona

    +

    2 goals in 2014 World Cup Qualifiers
    3 goals in friendlies
    =
    5 goals for Argentina in 2011/12


    So 77 for club and county
  34. May 5, 2012

    Dan Aka Lumines

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  35. May 5, 2012

    Homeomorphic Banned

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    I feel weird saying that I feel sorry for someone who earns more than € 10 million a year. But I feel kinda sorry for Ronaldo. He broke an all time La Liga record last season, scoring 40 goals. And guess who totally annihilates that record only a season later? :lol:
  36. May 5, 2012

    MaroonPondlife Banned

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
  37. May 5, 2012

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Anyone know where his number of assists this season sits in the grand scheme of things?

    His goal-scoring record is ridunkulous but what makes it absolutely mental is the fact he's such a creative player too.
  38. May 5, 2012

    Homeomorphic Banned

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    29 assists in all competitions.
  39. May 5, 2012

    stubie Full Member

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    According to wiki 28 this season
  40. May 5, 2012

    Marcosdeto Moderator

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    club wise he played 327 games, scoring 252 goals and assisting 101 times

    so he was directly involved in 353 goals in 327 games

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