Lionel Messi

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by cesc's_mullet, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. Nov 14, 2008

    Merman Guest

    Some of them played for much weaker teams than today's Argentina and the other won the Euro. I get your point though.
  2. Nov 14, 2008

    Murphman Full Member

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    I'd love to see Maradonna at United, the fat old druggie cnut, it'd be worth a testicle.
  3. Nov 14, 2008

    Murphman Full Member

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    The Dutch sides of Gullit and Cruyff were better than Argentina, so were Portugal in 1966 and arguably the French in 1984. There's luck involved, clicking during the tournament, hence it shouldn't be a defining moment for a player. Obviously it ain't bad on the CV mind when you're showing your medals.
  4. Nov 14, 2008

    Spoony The People's President

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    Zidane is clearly a greater footballer than Missi.
    The Dutch should've won a WC in the 70's. Head and shoulders above any side during that period. Brazil 82, was clearly the best side in world in the early 80's yet they only reached the second phase of the WC. Gullit's 88 side is arguably the best European side I've seen. . .but they decided to go all Dutch in 1990.
  5. Nov 14, 2008

    Spoony The People's President

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    Zidane is clearly a greater footballer than Missi.
    The Mighty Magyars were arguably the best of the lot.
  6. Nov 14, 2008

    Murphman Full Member

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  7. Nov 14, 2008

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    I do the same and I disagree Frank, you make it out to be clear cut when it's quite clearly not.
  8. Nov 14, 2008

    reelworld Full Member

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    Seriously, why the feck United fans need to go all defensive when someone said Messi could be the greatest player ever :houllier:. Ronaldo is a great player, the best in the world right now, but Messi is also incredibiy talented that he possibly can be one of the greatest in the world, so it's a perfectly valid question.

    To answer cesc question, no I don't think he will, not because of lack of talent, but because I don't think he'll ever get an injury free-season.
  9. Nov 14, 2008

    MUFC07 Full Member

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    When you see a guy like Messi playing like he does at his age, you wonder: if this guy can't battle Maradona, we'll never see a player like that again, like you pointed out Spoonatov.

    He lacks some things still, passing, etc. But fecking hell he has a lot of time to get them better, to improve, to develop those skills.

    But then again reelworld has a great point, it will be difficult for him to get an injury-free season, so unlike the new maradona, he coul turn out to be the new Luiz Ronaldo, maybe an improved version (which is a lot to say).
  10. Nov 14, 2008

    jojojo Moderator

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    As a United fan who does watch a lot of Spanish football, including the occasional live match at the Nou Camp, I've seen Messi play great, good, ordinary, bad and indifferent. He and Barca are in great form at the moment and they seem to have got over the homesickness that's been killing them (and him) for the past couple of years.

    Will he be some people's greatest player? If he can stay injury free I don't see why not, he's got the talent to do it and doesn't seem to have the vices that could make him waste it.

    Will he ever be top of my "greatest ever" list, I doubt it, there's something missing (and it's not just a red shirt) - but maybe in 10 years I'll see it differently.
  11. Nov 14, 2008

    Cal? from Redcafe (matchfixing department)

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    Ronaldo is better...
  12. Nov 14, 2008

    kouroux Full Member

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    i meant what you wrote but couldn't be arsed to write it all;)
  13. Nov 14, 2008

    KeyserSoze Batigol > Bauer

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    Mate, since when did it become so hard to watch full games of Spanish football and how many Barca games have you actually been to.

    Maybe, the fact is that some of the people talking to you in this thread have seen him as much as you, then formulated their own opinion and disagree to an extent. I mean, that is common on an internet football forum is it not.
  14. Nov 14, 2008

    Jens' Face An Arse

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    Can you, DR, or anyone else point me to where on the internets I might find that sort of thing?


    On topic, just two kind of philosophical questions.

    1. If you want to compare two great players, like Messi and skinny Ronaldo, you obviously want to compare them and not their teams. So how do you separate out their accomplishments as individuals from what they were able to accomplish because of their teammates? (You know, the old saw: every goal requires an assist, etc.) I mean, obviously, at the end of the day you can't. But if you're gonna compare Messi and Ronaldo, you've got to at least make a gesture in that direction. So how would you? Me, I've got no idea.

    2. How do you compare players from different eras? There's no question (imho) that players today tend to be superior in terms of physical fitness -- speed, strength, stamina. Does that mean that Messi's (or Ronaldo's) accomplishments mean more than Pele's? What are the other differences between eras, and how do you account for them in the process of comparing players?
  15. Nov 14, 2008

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    Right here.

    Pick a team and then go down to the very bottom and on the right hand side there's a thing which says match statistics and hen you just choose density (it's only for each separate game as far as I know though).
  16. Nov 14, 2008

    Jens' Face An Arse

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    thanks a lot, brwned
  17. Nov 14, 2008

    LizardKing First Team Regular

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    Can you tell me next weeks lottery numbers?

    Ridiculous post.
  18. Nov 14, 2008

    Brwned Have you ever been in love before?

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    I'm not saying it will happen, just my opinion and how I think it will turn out.

    Seems a bit pointless to have to add in the whole 'imo' bit since clearly 99% of the bollocks I talk is my opinion.

    It's no worse than Cesc saying he thinks Messi will be regarded as the best player ever.

    Although I can see where you're coming from, so that's why I explained it a bit.

    Not sure it matters, I'm pretty sure you already think I'm a spastic so the damage's done.
  19. Nov 14, 2008

    LizardKing First Team Regular

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    Ronaldo has been effective too and in a team that is playing nowhere near as well as Barcelona at the moment, coupled with the fact Ronaldo hasn't had a pre-season. He's played 12 games this season, scored 7 and got 5 assists. That's hardly poor is it?

    If we include the last 2 years: Ronaldo has played 114 games, scored 72 and got 31 assists. Messi has played 90 games, scored 44 and got 24 assists (the assists are according to wiki so could be wrong).

    You can't discredit either of them, they're both superb players who are a level above anyone else in world football when on form. They'll both be remembered as great players.
  20. Nov 14, 2008

    Red Pavan shittest username ever manutddabest791

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    Once again it is proved that you are the most clueless poster on the Caf
  21. Nov 14, 2008

    Name Changed weso26

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    Yes you do.

    He is not always getting injured. Where do you get your information from? He is not overrated at all. Have a look at a Barcelona match before judging players when you have obviously never seen them play.
  22. Nov 14, 2008

    vijay Im rude and disprespectful to the ladies of the fo

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    Already posted the content umpteen times.

    Messi is the only player who can surpass the levels of Zidane, Laudrup and Fat Ronaldo.

    But he cannot be compared with Maradona, just like the likes of Kaka and Ronaldo cannot be comapred with Messi

    Bottler has recently said "Ronaldo is one thing but Messi is from a different planet"

    Any one played football at a certain level cannot really argue against that.
  23. Nov 14, 2008

    vijay Im rude and disprespectful to the ladies of the fo

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    Gullit :lol:
  24. Nov 14, 2008

    kouroux Full Member

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    I think he's addicted to Ronaldo's cock hence the "hardened" mention
  25. Nov 14, 2008

    Red Pavan shittest username ever manutddabest791

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    :lol::lol:

    Harsh
  26. Nov 14, 2008

    vijay Im rude and disprespectful to the ladies of the fo

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    He's correct. The likes of Rummenigge , Zico, Platini, Mathaeus, Basten etal were competing with Maradona at one point in his career or other but Maradona walloped them all.

    Nothing to belittle other greats but its the similar to Xavi, Ronaldo, Kaka or Torres competing with Messi.
  27. Nov 14, 2008

    MehdiMahdavikia Banned

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    People who say Messi lacks the eye for a pass give away that they haven't seen him play much. The pass he gave at the weekend to Henry with the outside of his left foot was incredible, stopped on the exact blade of grass for Henry to run onto. Stuff like that puts him ahead of Ronaldo personally.
  28. Nov 14, 2008

    LizardKing First Team Regular

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    Yeah a player who scored has 70+ goals in 120 appearances over the last couple of seasons and has won a European cup and 2 league titles in that time can't be compared :houllier:
  29. Nov 14, 2008

    Spoony The People's President

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    Zidane is clearly a greater footballer than Missi.
    Gullit was a brilliant brilliant player.
  30. Nov 14, 2008

    Red Pavan shittest username ever manutddabest791

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    If we are comparing players on their ability, why not make a list of their attritubes that make them stand out above everyone else and then maybe consider the outcomes...
  31. Nov 14, 2008

    vijay Im rude and disprespectful to the ladies of the fo

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    True but he was certainly not in the league of other players the scouser summed up.
  32. Nov 14, 2008

    I_live_cement Cat freak

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    All time great? - Yes

    Greatest ever? - No chance.
  33. Nov 14, 2008

    LizardKing First Team Regular

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    They're both brilliant players but the Messi fans go way way over the top when talking about him. I love watching Messi play and since I got sky a couple of months ago I've seen a few Barcelona games and he's been fantastic but like Ronaldo or Kaka he's had quiet games where nothing's really happened much for him and games where he's been unplayable.

    For me, with the form he's in at the moment, he is the best player on Earth (after Rafael ;)) but to completely forget about Ronaldo's achievements in the past couple of seasons is ridiculous especially when you consider how he's doing this season after coming back from an ankle operation and playing catch-up.
  34. Nov 14, 2008

    I_live_cement Cat freak

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    If Cantona and Rush are in there, Gullitt's got to be as well.
  35. Nov 14, 2008

    vijay Im rude and disprespectful to the ladies of the fo

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    Rating a footballer takes a lot more than counting the goal/assist stats posted in wiki.
  36. Nov 14, 2008

    Spoony The People's President

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    Zidane is clearly a greater footballer than Missi.
    He certainly was. He was the best player in the world around 1990. A shame he turned United down. Couldn;'t blame him mind you, Serie A was the place the be back then.
  37. Nov 14, 2008

    Adebesi Full Member

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    Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
    There is always a tendency to look at the past as inherently better than the present or the future. And it can never be proven one way or the other - not just because the question is subjective but because you can never compare Maradona to Messi on a fair playing field - just as you cant compare Duncan Edwards to Maradona.

    That said, I reject the idea that another player who is on that level or higher - than Pele and Maradona - could come along. More likely they will come along but nobody will acknowledge they are as good.
  38. Nov 14, 2008

    LizardKing First Team Regular

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    An attacking player should be judged on their goals and assists. Mostly, anyway.
  39. Nov 14, 2008

    Spoony The People's President

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    Zidane is clearly a greater footballer than Missi.
    I'm not sure about that, Simon. Back in 82 Maradona was the best player in the world, but no one mentioned him in the same breath as Pele. Back then Pele was the greatest ever, for the majority, but in the subsequent years Maradona showed us why many if not most regard him as the greatest player, ever. So, I guess we'll just have to see. But I doubt I'll ever see a player as good as Maradona.
  40. Nov 14, 2008

    GAngel Full Member

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    Not at this specific moment he isn't.

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