Looking at our younger players. Who are the gems?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by simplyared, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Jan 8, 2019
    #41

    Macern Pee pee pants

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    My dad watches some of the U21 games and he has massive faith in Gomes, believing he can become world class. He says he has Messi-esque technique. Anyone here who watches some of the U21 games? Haven’t seen him enough to form a proper opinion.
  2. Jan 8, 2019
    #42

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Looking at the players 25 years and younger:
    World class(top 3 in his position in the world):
    Currently:Pogba.
    Can be: Martial and Rashford(Both got some of the abilites that is needed to perform on the highest level in their position. )

    Excellent (top 10 in his position in the world):
    Currently:Martial(on his day, but inconsitent).
    Can be: Shaw(must improve the offensive part of his game), Lindelof(improve his physicality, gets bullied by physical players in duels and 1v1), Dalot(early days, but got a great cross and ability on the ball), Bailly(If he stops doing stupid things and becomes more stable he can be something fearsome.)

    Good (top 25 in his position in the world):
    Currently: Lukaku(arguably), Rashford, Shaw(due to the lack of good fullbacks in the world, and solely due to his defensive abilities).
    Can be: Pereira, Fred(if he is able to stop being such a messy player.)

    Decent(good enough for starter as a midtable PL team and backup for a team going for major trophies);
    Currently: Pereira, Bailly, Fred.

    From the players not part of the first team:
    1. Mason Greenwood: Ambipedal, can shoot from most ranges, can pass, cross etc. If he is able to take the step, then given his abilities he can be among the best.
    2. Ethan Laird: Very offensive fullback, great on the ball, can pass, got the physicality needed to perform on the highest level in his position.


    Garner, Chong, Gomez, Tuanzebe, Williams, Bernard and Levitt all seem promising, but Greenwood and Laird are the ones i would bet on to become players in the starting 11.
  3. Jan 8, 2019
    #43

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    No idea why you think that validates what you're saying. You'd have to be dense to think that as a fan
  4. Jan 8, 2019
    #44

    The Irish Connection Full Member

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    Gomes is quality at reserve level, has great vision and dribbling, and can finish. The doubts are around his size, but Erickson and Silva among others managed it, it will remain to be seen but he has top talent.

    Someone mentioned traore. I’ve only watched him about twice this season but he looks talented. Big lad for his age too.
  5. Jan 8, 2019
    #45

    red thru&thru Full Member

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    Well you clearly have no idea what criteria a WC player meets. I asked you and you couldn’t answer. Someone who has far more knowledge about players than me, and in all probability, has more knowledge about them than you, says what a WC player is, I’m going to compare any player to his standards.

    So not can you not answer me about what it is to be a WC player is but you also dismiss the view of one of the all time best managers view on what a WC player is. So with all due respect, you’re acting the dense one!
  6. Jan 8, 2019
    #46

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    I'm just not interested in providing a daft description to you. That would be pointless. I struggle to get my head around someone who doesn't think Vidic and Rio weren't world class though. Even more so if it's solely because Fergie said something off the cuff. Specially considering he's since backtracked on what he said there.
  7. Jan 9, 2019
    #47

    BrianMcClair'sBarnet Full Member

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    I think Gomes is going to be the one.
    He seems so classy and intelligent since he's been deployed in the deeper midfield role for the reserves.
  8. Jan 9, 2019
    #48

    shamans Hoser

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    Erickson is 6 foot. Silva is 5 foot 8. Messi is 5'7 as is Shaqiri.

    This is why I'm a littler concerned for gomes. He is 5'3 which is quite small for a professional. I hope he grows at least an inch or two or that all these google results are wrong.
  9. Jan 9, 2019
    #49

    red thru&thru Full Member

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    Well that’s where were different. I must have higher standards when saying someone is WC.
  10. Jan 9, 2019
    #50

    swooshboy Band of Brothers

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    So Schmeichel wasn't world class?
  11. Jan 9, 2019
    #51

    Redlips Full Member

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    Which is especially funny given our fans usual desperation to add years to a players age. Just seen a guy claiming Koulibaly is about to turn 30 when he's actually 27! Lingard must be almost ready to collect his pension before his legs fall off at 30.
  12. Jan 9, 2019
    #52

    Champ Full Member

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    Valbuena springs to mind for me, absolutely brilliant player on his day and a very good international career to boot, I believe he is about 5ft5, he could also hold his own in a battle.
  13. Jan 9, 2019
    #53

    IronCroos37 New Member

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    We have 2 world class players : De Gea and Pogba
    We have 2 potential world class players : Rashford, Martial
  14. Jan 9, 2019
    #54

    red thru&thru Full Member

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    Very good question. He was one of our better players in the period he was at the club. He was one of the best keepers of his generation. So I guess you have to say he was a world class goal keeper.
  15. Jan 9, 2019
    #55

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    Scott McTom. He won our player of the year in only his first season after all.
  16. Jan 9, 2019
    #56

    KikiDaKats Full Member

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    @Fosu-Mens going by your definition... Who are the other 2 world class midfielders in football?
  17. Jan 9, 2019
    #57

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    Could have articulated it better and should have stated that there are different types of midfielders and that i should have differentiated between the roles:
    Defensive minded; Kante, Casemiro BusQ etc.
    B2B, Offensive etc.
  18. Jan 9, 2019
    #58

    Sky1981 Fending off the urge

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    We had this for years when people overhyped and overestimated our youth product. Over the years people put youth players in their hypothetical xi but the names like macheda, gibson, tfm and many others ended up not even midtable material.

    Tuanzebe, Chong, gomes et al shouldnt be counted as anything until they've proven otherwise.

    Looking back apart from rashford our last respectable youth academy that made to the first team is darren fletcher.

    Let's not count our eggs before they hatch.
  19. Jan 9, 2019
    #59

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    Rashford - definitely
    Martial - he already is
    Greenwood - hopefully
  20. Jan 9, 2019
    #60

    billybee99 New Member

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    Are you a child or something? Do you take verbatim every comment SAF ever made in his whole life? World class means you are one of the very best in the world. It's not rocket science. Rio or Vidic would have walked into any starting 11 in the world. Evra was probably the best LB in the world in '08. Ronnie won the Balon D'Or. Rooney was a beast in '08. VDS was certainly world class. The team was chalk full of stars. Not to mention we had Scholes and Giggs who were still fantastic players. Carrick, Hargreaves, Nani, Tevez - not world class but fantastic in their own right. And I haven't even started to talk about the '99 team. Maybe another day.
  21. Jan 9, 2019
    #61

    Rifer Full Member

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    Younger players for me are 23 y.o. and lower. Lindelof and Bailly are out. Why is Fred there..

    Candidates: Shaw, Martial, Andreas Pereira (all 23), McTominay (22), Rashford (21), Dalot (19).

    So just 6 players.

    Should we reaally count the loanees (Tuanzebe, Henderson, etc) who have not prove they can make it here or not with some of them only had few games with the first team, and the youth who only have so few games (Gomes, Chong) and just awesome at youth level (Greenwood) and the other youths (Garner, etc) who haven't been given the chance nor prove it yet... no offence but that's too premature. What if Greenwood becomes another Wilson. Let's give them chances first without too hoping, then criticizes them just as it goes once they've tried.

    Anyway, just the 6.

    ++ Rashford and Martial are the impressive lots, way ahead than the rest. Very promising. High ceiling, not sure whether they have WC potential, need more games to see that (yeah, I've changed my tunes now compare to before, considering their developments).

    Martial need to be more serious and ambitious to be the best, doubt if he have that aim, from his many interviews. Sounds more like just trying to have a good professional career, which is fine, so we need coach that'll push him to improve steadily.

    Rashford seems to be over committed, but seriously need to keep himself checked and protected, not to lose his head somewhere thinking he have made it, plenty more of the stardom tests will come and try to screw his head, he's given too much hype already by press as usual, he's not there yet.

    + Shaw, doesn't build on his impressive attacking talents he had before obvious when he was younger. Defensively he's good now, but his attacking traits seems too rusty. Nevertheless, need more games to prove he still got it. Just a solid LB atm. Seems to mature a lot in how he behave on pitch, and decision making, so that's a plus.

    + Dalot, impressive talents but his age showed plenty of drawbacks in his play. Need to prove a lot of aspects from his game. Be harder and be more ruthless and be more demanding. Add more consistency and steel to his arsenal. His decision making is not bad, will definitely improve.

    + McTominay, ah the one that many United fans just don't rate nor like. No flair, no flashy appearances, doesn't look like a star, doesn't do flashy stuffs on the pitch. So what... football is not all about those flashy stuffs. Efficiency and solidity are what he can bring -- while the rest of his teammates do the flashy stuff, the team need someone to do the boring stuffs better, and he can fill the gap. What's impressive is he can do it well, and doesn't hide in games even in the big games, vs Chelsea and Liverpool are the two best highlights so far. Less effective in smaller games though, maybe he can improve that part. His passing improve quickly now -- more forward passes than before.

    + Andreas Pereira, no doubts about his all-around talents. It's how he make use of that talents of his that is the problem. Decision making need to improve -- when to pass, when to dribble, clear or hold, pass risk or safe, etc etc. Need to also express himself more.

    Ruby -- Rashford
    Sapphire -- Martial
    Zircon -- Shaw
    Aquamarine -- Dalot
    Smoky Quartz -- McTominay
    Sodalite --- Andreas Pereira
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  22. Jan 9, 2019
    #62

    red thru&thru Full Member

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    And what? Just because you haven’t started talking about the ‘99 team your definition of WC is definite? Like I said, my standards of what I would class as WC is different to yours. Also, I’d take the opinion of someone who has some credibility in the game, as to what they class as WC, rather than some halfwit on a football forum!

    Also, doing it for one season like you keep banging on about in 2008, does not make you WC! Kevin Philips banged in 30+ goals for Sunderland in one season, did that make him WC? Pipe down you tool.
  23. Jan 9, 2019
    #63

    Rifer Full Member

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    This. Let them try first, only then we judge.

    I get what you meant using that word :drool: case of Darren Fletcher is so interesting though, he was being given plenty of disrespectful remarks, granted his early days he's too inconsistent doesn't help his cause, his big games performance is his big selling point at first. Then Hargreaves stole his place, then Fletcher win his place back and quickly becoming a key player. I think in the end, it's Character that will decide it, no doubt Fletcher have plenty.

    There are also Rafael and Fabio. Welbeck and Clev also technically as bit part squad players. Still technically made it to the first team, just not at the same height reached by Fletcher.
  24. Jan 9, 2019
    #64

    SoCross Full Member

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    Rio & Vidic not world class in their prime :houllier:

    Anyway, back to OP; Greenwood has the potential to be a fantastic player, one of the best around. Others such as Laird, Gomes...they’ll be good players but don’t think they’ll be special.

    Rashford has come on leaps and bounds; wondering if it’s purple patch but if he continues at this rate; he will get close to Rooney’s record.
  25. Jan 9, 2019
    #65

    ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg Full Member

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    If we go by SAF’s opinion that he only had 4 WC players, and use that as a barometer then there are perhaps only 11-14 WC players at any one time. You could then argue that players like De Bruyne, Greizmann, Pique and Courtois have never been World Class - which is bonkers.

    Clearly there is no definition, but it’s probably the top 30-40 players in the world at any one time.

    In ref to our youngsters, the reality is that most won’t make it at Utd, let alone become a WC player.

    In 4 years time, I bet only one of Greenwood, Chong, Gomes, Laird, Tuanzebe will be a first team player.
  26. Jan 9, 2019
    #66

    Bilbo Full Member

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    For those who watch the youth teams and are in the know, why was Chong played against Reading over our other options?

    Seen a little of Gomes. He looks like huge potential to me. Seen nothing of Greenwood but everyone is raving about him.

    Chong didn't look close to being ready for the team on Saturday, albeit only being one game. So why him over the others?
  27. Jan 9, 2019
    #67

    Bilbo Full Member

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    The debates been had on here before, but my definition of world class has always been 'if Earth played Mars, who makes the squad'.

    When I think back on the Ferguson era the ones that spring to mind are Schmeical, Ferdinand, Stam, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo and Van Nistelrooy. Those players at their best would have made the squad. I'm sure I'm missing one too, but it escapes me.
  28. Jan 9, 2019
    #68

    dutchred Full Member

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    I think James Garner will surprise everyone. The guy oozes class. Natural successor to Matic in a couple of years
  29. Jan 9, 2019
    #69

    BluesJr Full Member

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    The only way he’ll look ready is by doing it again, and again. This is a crucial period in his development, as we’ve seen with Sancho. This is the time to see if he’s got it or not.
  30. Jan 9, 2019
    #70

    Bilbo Full Member

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    I don't disagree, I was merely wondering why he was the guy chosen over the others. Is he further along in terms of his development? If so, how?
  31. Jan 9, 2019
    #71

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Just think it was his turn so to speak, Garner was supposed to come on as well but Sanchez ruined that by declaring his injury too late. I’d like to see much more of Gomes and Chong going forward. Hudson- Odoi and Sancho show that it’s possible in 2019 as if we needed actual evidence that if you’re in exceptional talent (which you need to be to make it at Man Utd) you can fit in the team regardless of age or experience.
  32. Jan 9, 2019
    #72

    breakout67 Full Member

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    Greenwood and Gomez were doubts for the game. I would say Gomez and Greenwood are much bigger prospects than Chong. Chong most likely gets more opportunities because we have no wingers in the team and he is a proper winger.