Machine gun gestures during Adebayor substitutiion?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Nick 0208 Ldn, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. Jan 29, 2010
    #81

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    Pretty much agree with all of that.

    It's the attempt to justify some fans acting like twats which rubs people up the wrong way.

    The policing issue is a bit of a side-track. All any individual fan can do, realistically, is refuse to join in. This whole machine-gun thing is a real shame though. Every club has it's cnuts but that really is despicable. Embarrassing really.
  2. Jan 29, 2010
    #82

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    It's the one for all attitude thats sort of instinctive...But when things happen that you'd likely pillor opposition fans for, or wouldn't accept in normal society, it becomes hypocritical. The whole "must try and an excuse anyone who's a red" mentality is self defeating...and I can't see anyone trying to excuse Mick Hucknall
  3. Jan 29, 2010
    #83

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    Not much other match going fans can do about it. You'd want to be a total fecking dickhead to do something like that but there's plenty of them in the world!

    As for throwing coins etc, well its just irresponsible, there are kids etc in the crowd and lobbing something you have no idea where its going to land or what damage its going to do... if one takes a kids eye out some day would it be worth it?

    Aside from that, is a cnut like Bellamy or anyone else worth getting yourself a life time ban over?
  4. Jan 29, 2010
    #84

    ralphie88 Full Member

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    That's not the comparison. The comparison would be if you were watching The Hit Man and Her (remember that? :eek:) and saw someone doing it in the background and then went on an internet forum to mither with loads of other people who saw it on the TV.... oh hang on a minute, the internet didn't exist then.......

    Anyway, I guess my point is that the ones who are always most up in arms about this are usually the ones who don't go to games.

    I'm not defending doing machine gun guestures (I didn't actually see any myself) in the ground, but I'm just saying that in the grand scheme of things that happen at a derby game (crowd crushes, violence, ejections for doing feck all etc.), it's not a biggie.
  5. Jan 29, 2010
    #85

    ralphie88 Full Member

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    Well I'm not still in primary school, so the chances are you would need to ask your Dad to chin me.
  6. Jan 29, 2010
    #86

    Rahul Full Member

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    All fans have there minority of idiots.

    Remember the "You should have died in the tunnel" chants directed at Ronaldo. He didn't seem too fazed about it.
  7. Jan 29, 2010
    #87

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    Probably because noone actually died.
  8. Jan 29, 2010
    #88

    ralphie88 Full Member

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    I reckon he wouldn't have been too fazed about it if he'd died either. ;)
  9. Jan 29, 2010
    #89

    fergieisold Full Member

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    It's amazing the difference in response to two similar incidents. Maybe they should ban Bellamy from football ground for his part in football hooliganism?
  10. Jan 29, 2010
    #90

    gaffs Full Member

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    I dont think anyone is trying to do that.

    People who lob bottles and coins onto the pitch are idiots and they should be
    banned from the stadium and dealt with by the police..


    Where is this "all for one and one for all attitude"? No one is supporting the actions of these idiots. But its true to say that its only a tiny percentage that don’t behave correctly – sadly its those who get talked about.

    This self policing stuff is bollocks - its the police and stewards responsibility to control the crowd.

    I was merely pointing out that Bellemy was mouthing off to the crowd before taking the corner - if he hadn’t have done that, he wouldn’t have been hit by a coin.

    As I say, im not justifying anyone’s actions or supporting them, but players have a responsibility to act correctly.
  11. Jan 29, 2010
    #91

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    I can see all these people who sit in front of the TV during the match, arguing against our support in the ground on matters that frankly they are clueless about.

    Now I did not see anyone make any machine gun gestures. Did any other matchgoer see anything like this? If so please do say here.
  12. Jan 29, 2010
    #92

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    I'm sure they are. But what difference does that actually make? I didn't go to the may day rally but I can still say the people trying to smash the windows of John Lewis (a workers co-operative!) were fecking idiots.

    I go to games ralphie, mainly England, London and Wembley ones now to be fair (I'll be at the final if you fancy a pint ;) )but I used to go OT regularly when I was living in Leeds, and I never get or got the urge to instantly defend or more accurately, deflect attention away from the troublesome few. I know they're a tiny minority of fans, especially at OT, but when I do see them, I see them as an embarrassment. Because I know if I've enjoyed myself I'll go an tell everyone how great it was and they'll probably reply "yeah but what about the hooliganism?" or some such, and the papers will focus on it almost exclusively...Take the United > England thing, a view held in part because of a tiny faction of fecking stupid England fans chanting horrible shit at Becks in Euro 2000...I was at that tournament (not that game tho) And I got angry at the idiots that had caused the media over reaction, not at the people over reacting. Cos in the scheme of being a violent, abusive, insensative cock, and being an over reactionary drama queen, the former is a far more condemnable offence.

    All I'm saying is that I think you, and others, come in these threads with the pre-planned agenda of although not defending these fans, sort of trying to play down and deflect attention away from, or in the worst cases, excuse them. For the same reason as above, your great experience is being lambasted because of a tiny minority, but I think you're aiming your annoyance at the wrong crowd. Which I think is a bit silly (not in all cases though, I remember you did stirling work tryna get the Rome thug identified, kudos for that - and I'm not talking directly about you at all). I understand it, but I think there's an us and them mentality and the "us" has a very heavy leaning towards the idiots than the armchairs....Like you feel more solidarity with them just because they went to the game so you feel like you have to try and defend them in some all be it small way because of it...I don't think I've ever seen one of the ******* massive (sorry about the phrasing, but it's the easiest way) ever come in one of these 'crowd violence threads' and not have a go at the people over reacting or in some way try and blame the police, or the player or something else...With the exception of instances where reds themselves have been affected. I just think it'd be better of universally condemned and then we can leave it. Cos tollerence or excuse mongering of it just means it wont go away.

    I agree, but that annoys me more because the crowd were so good on wednesday that those few idiots have tarred it in some peoples minds with their idiocy. In the papers for example, it's fecking annoying to read about that and not the thumping atmosphere, but the blame must lie with them for that. To use a very extreme example, the relative inaction in the vastly peaceful muslim word of unanimously condemning the extremists (lets just say the people like Islam4UK, not the bombers cos that would be taking it too far) doesn't reflect too well on the muslim world. Everyone would be better off if the people with the power and influence to affect change, i.e. the people these idiots see as their friends and peers, condemned it fully too, thus not making them feel so safe in numbers to do it again?..

    Massive rambling rant over...I hope that made some sense

    Oh and..

    :lol:
  13. Jan 29, 2010
    #93

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    What? Again?

  14. Jan 29, 2010
    #94

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    Well it's obviously not fairly noticeable if just a couple have noticed it.

    Also it depends where it was and how its interpreted. It's fairly common for people to shake their wrists and do a wanker sign at the players, especially at the biggest wanker there is in football. Maybe people saw these as machine gun gestures.

    I did not see anything coming from the East Stand and neither did Heap. None of my mates said anything about it either. It must have come from somewhere in the South Stand because that's where he was closest to. He barely even looked at the East and even his racist song didn't get that much of an airing. Only when we joined in with their City song and even then it was few people.

    The south standers are not your average match-going fan. Usually there's people like yourself there, those who can be arsed to make their way to a match once in a couple of months and who like to sit and watch the football quietly. Kids too.

    I hope I'm not stereotyping much? ;)
  15. Jan 29, 2010
    #95

    Sir A1ex Full Member

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    This thread confuses me a lot...

    Starts with the opinion "People doing machine gun gestures are a disgrace"...

    ...Ralphie and others conribute the opininon that CES & the police should be on to these people and chuck them out....

    ...Ralphie and others get slagged off because appraently this is justifying the machine gun gesturing idiots?


    If I said that I think the police should do mroe to stop terrorists, does this mean I support terrorism?
    What is this place, Bizarro World?
  16. Jan 29, 2010
    #96

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    As far as both incidents go (coins and gestures)

    - Its not representative of the majority of our support.
    - Its a shitty, stupid thing for someone to do.
    - No one really wants to see it happening.
    - Its a pain in the hole that the actions of a few idiots get so much attention.
    - The stewards & police should stop it when it happens.

    I think we'd all agree with those points wouldn't we?

    I dont really see what there is to argue about apart from people getting a bit over-sensitive.
  17. Jan 29, 2010
    #97

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    You're stereotyping alright but it's the distinct lack of logic that stands out the most.

    You seem to be trying to blame the South Stand while at the same time portraying it as being usually full of intermittent attendees and kids, who like to sit and watch the football quietly.

    As someone who occasionally frequents that particular stand I agree with your general gist of your description which makes it all the more unlikely the South stand fans would be getting Elephant/Whore chants going or abusing Adebayor in general.
  18. Jan 29, 2010
    #98

    Sir A1ex Full Member

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    Can you do that?:confused:
  19. Jan 29, 2010
    #99

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    This bit here does explain that I was talking about his song not even getting an airing in East Stand. Surely?

    And as for the kiddies comments, well those who are fairly immature would be expected to do such a thing. Surely?

    Therefore that's why I said the culprits must have been in the South Stand. Unless it was the disabled supporters underneath the City fans? Surely not?
  20. Jan 29, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    Good question.

    I was gonna go with "intermittently" but I'd already used it elsewhere in the post and I try not to be repetitive with my adverbs.

    If some pedantic cnut now points out that they aren't adverbs I'm going to have to slap them.
  21. Jan 29, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    This bit is just wrong though.

    He looked up at the East a few times and acknowledged the City fans applauding him. So if you're gonna get basics like that wrong I'm not sure I can be certain about the rest of what you said.

    Surely?
  22. Jan 29, 2010

    Dwazza Van Hernandez A Special Kind of Hipster

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    pretty ignorant if anyone made machine gun gestures should you ask me, regardless of what happened to the Togolese team.
  23. Jan 29, 2010

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    That is correct that they were in the East Stand, but it's not what I meant to say. I meant to say the East part where United supporters were.

    [​IMG]

    The blue represents the city fans in the East. The red dot is me. The pink line Adebayor warming up. I'm not sure how much they had of the Tier above me though as they weren't that vocal.

    The vocal supporters were to our left, and they were the ones Adebayor was clapping a couple of times, which technically is in the East Stand but no United supporters were there, except for the disabled ones.

    He didn't once turn his head and clap the ones above us as they were literally singing feck all up until they scored the goal, where really most of the noise came form jumping up and down.

    I might have missed when he turned to clap them, because we were actually busy celebrating Carricks goal, and mocking the City support to our left at that time, but to be honest I don't think that anyone had time to make machine gun gestures at Adebayor then.

    As I said he was closest to the South Stand United supporters and they might have been the ones who were making those stupid gestures.
  24. Jan 29, 2010

    gaffs Full Member

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    Spot on.

    No one is defending the actions of a tiny minority.
  25. Jan 29, 2010

    peterstorey Specialist In Failure

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    ... and they are lovely beyond any singing of it.
    Amen. Well you'd think so but I reckon there's a another hundred posts in it.
  26. Jan 29, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    Thanks for the geography lesson but your own diagram shows that he was warming up in direct proximity to United fans in the East stand, disabled and otherwise. The television coverage also clearly showed him acknowledging the City fans seated directly above you, almost all of whom were giving him a standing ovation as he warmed up.

    This is all moot though and feck knows why it matters to you to blame it all on United fans who happened to be in a different stand to you. Does that really make any difference to what's being discussed?
  27. Jan 29, 2010

    gaffs Full Member

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    The guy caught on TV doing the machine gun gesture was in the South Stand.

    No one was getting the "Elephant/Whore chants going". The City fans sing their song "The City is Ours", which is sung to the same tune as the Adebayor song. Some United fans (one or two near me) sing the Elephant Song ontop of the City fans.

    In the same way fans of crap clubs like Bolton sing "your gonna win feck all" if were having a crap season. Our fans will then start singing "you always win feck all" over the top.
  28. Jan 29, 2010

    niMic Curvy gay

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    I genuinely can't believe we have people here actually defending it. Perhaps not agreeing with it, but almost justifying it.

    Nope, scratch that, I can believe it. This is the Caf.
  29. Jan 29, 2010

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    Just to point out that they are not your average match-going fan, and that the blame should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves". ;)
  30. Jan 29, 2010

    gaffs Full Member

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    Who is defending it?
  31. Jan 29, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Oh right, and the blame for flinging bottles and coins on the pitch should be found, named, shamed and corrected amongst "yourselves"? (whoever the feck "yourselves" are)
  32. Jan 29, 2010

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Atmosphere is what makes football supporters go to matches. Matches like that on wednesday has a drug like effect. Football matches are those rare events in life where we can let go to some extent.

    I think the desire on some peoples part to condition fans and become more gentile will backfire. More than money I reckon lack of atmosphere at grounds is driving people away.

    Just imagine the game on wednesday was played out with merely hand claps at any piece of good play, for any side, and perhaps have the same unified chant such as ‘kick the ball, lets win together, yay! both the supporters and the players would soon lose passion for the game in no time.

    The irony is unsavoury chants is helping football by creating rivalries. As long as it's not racist, or physical it's no big deal.
  33. Jan 29, 2010

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    There's another thread to discuss the Bellamy incident.

    It's called, predictably enough, "The Bellamy Incident".

    http://www.redcafe.net/f6/bellamy-incident-284118/

    :smirk:
  34. Jan 29, 2010

    Utd heap Full Member

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    What a bizarre thread.

    Only on the Caf eh, and that's not a dig, 'cos i contributed!
  35. Jan 29, 2010

    gaffs Full Member

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    Do you not think Bellamy is partly to blame for provoking the crowd?
  36. Jan 29, 2010

    Adzzz Astrophysical Genius - Hard for Grinner

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    In short, yes.
  37. Jan 29, 2010

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Who's discussing the incident?

    I'm just trying to be clear on what the feck you mean by "yourselves" and how they're apparently responsible for all the idiocy that took place on Wednesday night.
  38. Jan 29, 2010

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    Can someone tell me how the stewards or the police can stop such gestures however idiotic?

    Are they even illegal?
  39. Jan 29, 2010

    Sultan السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته

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    I'd like to know how other supporters feel on this question.

    I don't now feel anything when opposing fans make aeroplane gestures or sing Munich songs. Is there something wrong with me?
  40. Jan 29, 2010

    AgainstAllOdds Banned

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    It's a matter of personal opinion in the end Sultan.

    I'm disgusted by anyone that mocks the dead, or wishes injury/death to anyone.

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