Make your best all time XI then make a team to beat it.

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by P-Nut0712, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. Sep 17, 2016
    #41

    Arbitrium Full Member

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    Aye , but to think that those 3- probably 3 of the 5 greatest players in history- wouldn't be absolutely incredible together and not a clusterfeck like you say , that's just madness. They would destroy any defence you could put in front of them
  2. Sep 17, 2016
    #42

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015

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    The problem is that Cruyff and Maradona in particular played in teams that were built around them in contrasting fashion, to an extent - with Keizer and Neeskens and Haan and Burruchaga and De Napoli in secondary roles. That gave them a license to improvise through their peak. And even though they were both very intelligent players, they did kind of dance to the beat of their own drum, and were fairly egoistical to boot. Having 2 players who thrived on that degree of influence adjacent to each other can be counterproductive, despite the obvious qualities they possessed.

    eg. Here's Cruyff roaming all over and dictating the game (with little intrusion from someone of a similar caliber in terms of attacking and creative influence):



    So there's a (hypothetical) risk of him clashing with Maradona (who also liked to dictate the game) in-spite of Cruyff being a total footballer; and the team's effectiveness on paper might not translate to the football pitch - especially since Cruyff's role will be diminished. FWIW, Di Stéfano is on the same boat given his overpowering influence on the game, which is why he'd also clash with a Cruyff or Maradona if they start in one team. One could even argue that he would clash with Pelé; but compared with Maradona + Di Stéfano + Cruyff, players like Pelé and Messi are easier to fit into teams - because they evidenced the ability to share the stage with the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Gérson, Xavi, Iniesta and co. (who liked to have a fair share of the ball).

    Though I do think Messi's not ideally placed in that setup beside Maradona. Something like this would be better, despite Gento being inferior to Cruyff:

    ---------------Müller-----------------
    -------------------------------------Messi

    Gento------------Maradona

    With Gento stretching the flank (he thrived in a team that had Di Stéfano and Puskás), Maradona to do whatever the feck he wants in tandem with Messi - who has the license to cut in over and over again, and act as the secondary playmaker.
  3. Sep 17, 2016
    #43

    Magnus Another mad swede

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    Your team will never touch the ball apart from the kickoffs after us scoring:-)
  4. Sep 17, 2016
    #44

    nokillingmoths Full Member

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    Its got me thinking, who would win out of the two recent united european cup winning teams?

    Schmiechel
    Neville Staam Johnson Irwin
    Beckham Keane Scholes Giggs
    Cole Yorke

    VDS
    Brown Vidic Rio Evra
    Carrick Scholes Hargreaves
    Ronaldo Rooney Tevez
  5. Sep 17, 2016
    #45

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    ---------------Ronaldo-----------
    Best-----------------------------Figo
    ---------Matthaus---L Suarez M.----
    ---------------O.Varela-------------
    Marzolini--Kohler-Figueroa-J Zanetti
    -------------Schmeichel-------------

    This would be an epic game.
  6. Sep 17, 2016
    #46

    oneniltothearsenal Full Member

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    Here is how I would take on that team

    Shilton
    R. Andrade--Gentile--Maldini--Junior
    Jairzinho--Vieira--Edwards--Nedved
    Bergkamp
    ---------Van Basten​



    ---------------Ronaldo-----------
    Best-----------------------------Figo
    ---------Matthaus---L Suarez M.----
    ---------------O.Varela-------------
    Marzolini--Kohler-Figueroa-J Zanetti
    -------------Schmeichel-------------​
  7. Sep 17, 2016
    #47

    Champagne Football Full Member

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    All Time -

    -------------Kahn----------

    Lahm-----Vidic---Maldini------R.Carlos

    ------Zico----Iniesta---Rikjaard-----

    Messi-----Fat Ronaldo---Maradonna


    Vs Team to beat them -


    --------------Schmeichel----------

    Cafu------Adams-----Hansen-----Evra

    ------Gerrard-----Scholes------Keane----

    Cristiano-------Suarez---------Giggs
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  8. Sep 17, 2016
    #48

    NoPace Full Member

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    Jokes aside, the success of Atletico and Leicester makes me wonder if a 2 banks of 4 team in their style is the right way to counter the great teams. Only using players I've seen, so post '96 or so.

    -----------Drogba---Suarez-------
    Bale-Effenberg-Essien-Nedved
    Cole--Terry-Vidic-Thuram
    ----------------Kahn----------------

    CBs dominant when they can sit back, 2 brilliant defensive FBs, scary pace on the wings, Essien to run and burst forward judiciously, Effenberg to tackle and shield and pass, Drogba a target man with pace to counter too and Suarez a great hold up player who can also create.

    Considered Godin for Vidic, Vieri for Drogba and I'm sure im missing an obvious name or 2.
  9. Sep 17, 2016
    #49

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    Only doing players I've watched

    Best team:

    Neymar-Suarez-Messi
    Iniesta-Xavi
    Busquets
    Abidal-Puyol-Pique-Alves
    Valdes

    Might defeat the point, but all players have great cohesion and synergy with 1 another. Think it'd be amazing to see. Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets in their prime with MSN up top. Ideally, I'd have the 2010-2011 Messi which was Messi's best season for me. Opted for Abidal over Alba, because 2 overlapping fullbacks is overkill to me and Abidal's a good outlet on the left anyways. Might not be the greatest compliment to Neymar and also may not take advantage of Messi's lofted passes towards the left if Abidal doesn't overlap as much as Alba does, but Messi in 2010-2011 didn't have the passing range and consistency he does now. His dribbling will be more of a weapon and he'll cut inside with more ease I feel, because that team will always dominate possession. Opted with Suarez over Eto'o/Villa up top, because he's got a better connection to Messi and Neymar and I think he's a better player. Didn't want Ronaldo on the left, because I don't think the team would function as well. Pep Guardiola is the manager. Basically the 2010-2011 team on steroids(I know Messi was the false 9 then, but I don't think problems will arise with him out wide with license to roam around as he pleases).

    Struggling to think of a team that I'd have to beat it.

    Will edit post later.
  10. Sep 17, 2016
    #50

    harms Full Member

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    Your team lacks* a genuine playmaker - neither Vieira nor Edwards were known for dictating the game. Nedved and Junior will help, but they both were more secondary playmakers than the main ones. Suarez will win the game for the opposing team here.
    It's also strange to see right back and left back forming a central duo without a sweeper who would've made it a back-3, with all the available choices.

    Bergkamp - van Basten though :drool: Aesthetical galore
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  11. Sep 17, 2016
    #51

    harms Full Member

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    What's the point of having Suarez here and starting a false 9 goalscoring version of Messi on the right then? Messi and his creative game is the main reason why MSN works as well as they do - starting Suarez basically on the right with Messi centrally would be a total waste.
  12. Sep 17, 2016
    #52

    Alex99 Rehab's Pete Doherty

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    Going for two United teams of players from different 'eras' that I've seen play:

    ------------De Gea
    Neville---Rio---Vidic---Irwin
    -------Keane---Scholes
    Ronaldo---------------Giggs
    ---------------Cantona
    ---------Ruud

    --------------vs.

    ------------Zlatan
    Martial----Rooney----Beckham
    ------Carrick--Hargreaves
    Evra---Stam---Bruce---Rafael
    ------------ VDS

    Top team is my best United XI from players I've seen, but I think Martial and Evra would have a field day against G.Nev given that Ronaldo wouldn't offer much help, especially whilst Zlatan and Rooney kept Rio and Vidic occupied in the middle. I reckon Beckham's crossing would also be a constant threat with Zlatan a perfect target man. A peak, bust-a-gut Rooney going up and down the middle to supplement a midfield of Carrick and Hargreaves I think would stifle Scholes and Keane to an extent. Bruce and Stam are big enough and good enough to deal with Ruud and Cantona, and I think there's enough pace in the full-back positions to cope with Ronaldo and Giggs. Both GKs are excellent but I think VDS would organise that defence well enough to cope with any Ronaldo miracles.
  13. Sep 17, 2016
    #53

    oneniltothearsenal Full Member

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    Fair point. Say Mascherano and Falcao then instead of Vieira and Edwards.

    Oh and I also limited the pool in my head a bit not trying to pick ones Ive picked before or popular other picks like Neeskens, Beckenbauer, etc
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  14. Sep 17, 2016
    #54

    2cents Full Member

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    I start in the early 90s:

    -----------Schmeichel------------
    Cafu--Costacurta--Baresi-Maldini
    --------Xavi--Busquets-------
    Messi-------Iniesta-------Ronaldinho
    ------------Ronaldo------------

    I have the bedrock of the greatest defence of all time together with the greatest midfield of all time. Could certainly be argued that there have been plenty of better centre-backs than Costacurta, but as a partnership with Baresi he can't be left out. The Barca trio in midfield have to be there. And up front I've gone for the magic of Ronaldinho over C. Ronaldo's efficiency.

    This team would give it a game!

    -------------Buffon------------
    Lahm----Nesta---Cannavaro---Carlos
    --------Keane-----Pirlo-------
    C. Ronaldo----Zidane-----Baggio
    -------------Romario------------

    Main problem there is having Baggio on the left but he's my favourite non-United player ever so had to squeeze him in somewhere. Can't go wrong with another Italian CB pairing.
  15. Sep 17, 2016
    #55

    harms Full Member

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    You can play Zidane as a leftish attacking midfielder - he favored the left side anyway and play Baggio as a Romario's partner? It's United version of Ronaldo anyway, I assume, so it's not like you have 3 strikers here.
  16. Sep 17, 2016
    #56

    2cents Full Member

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    Yeah I thought about that, it would be nice and fluid either way :drool:

    Ffs looking at the first team I put out, all the front six played for Barcelona. Imagine being a Barca fan since the early 90s?
  17. Sep 18, 2016
    #57

    Jacky Quacky made eight consecutive posts about Fellaini once

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    Schmeical
    Cafu-Nesta-Ferdinand-Maldini
    Scholes-Zidane
    Ronaldo(fat)-Messi-Best
    Pele

    Honestly don't think any other team could beat this.
  18. Sep 18, 2016
    #58

    Šjor Bepo Full Member

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    why not like this and you have everyone(at least offensive line) playing in their position rather then having Ronaldo out on the wing....
  19. Sep 18, 2016
    #59

    Macern Searches images of footballers ballsacks

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    A team to beat all your best teams:

    De Gea
    Thuram - Cannavaro - Vidic - Maldini
    Makelele
    Keane - Vieira
    Garrincha - Ronaldinho
    Ronaldo
  20. Sep 18, 2016
    #60

    JB08 Searches for nude pics of Marcos Rojo

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    Schmeichel
    Thuram - Cannavaro - Maldini
    Cafu - Vieira - Matthaus - Facchetti
    Zidane
    Ronaldo - van Basten
    By no means the best, what I wouldn't do to see this team play together though :drool:
  21. Sep 18, 2016
    #61

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    Messi was extremely creative in 2010-2011...

    He's always been creative lol.

    Messi is starting on the right in the team I posted with Suarez central.
  22. Sep 18, 2016
    #62

    harms Full Member

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    He is much more creative now, he drops deeper regularly (more so than earlier) and his ball to the left (to Neymar or Alba mostly) is the most consistent and productive attacking move in the world right now. He was very creative as a false 9 but he upped his game massively. Now he shares a playmaking burden with Iniesta (and Busquets/Rakitic, but less so), in 2010-11 Xavi did most of the build-up

    Messi as a goalscoring false 9 is starting on the right in your formation, you say - yes, but it's an oxymoron. If it's 2010-11 Messi, he won't spend a minute on the right and will always occupy central attacking area, which will shift Suarez out wide on the permanent basis, which is a total waste of his talents (with his movement and goalscoring being his main attributes).
  23. Sep 18, 2016
    #63

    harms Full Member

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    An unmarked Maradona/Cruyff/Di Stefano will murder this team, with tons of space between the lines centrally. Scholes was never a purely defensive midfield, Keane and Carrick (albeit being completely different players) compensated for it with their tackling or positioning and Zidane's defensive workrate is almost non-existent on this level.

    --------------van Basten---------
    --------------Maradona-----------
    -----Matthäus--------------Nedved
    ---↑--Rijkaard---Beckenbauer---
    Facchetti-Baresi-Figueroa-Djalma
    ----------------Zoff---------------

    An ultra-defensive team that is comfortable sitting deep and soaking up the pressure and to hit on the counter.
    The defence is simply better name-for-name, with Baresi and Figueroa being arguably the greatest center backs ever; midfield is full of tenacious and intelligent geniuses, Matthäus is playing centrally, slightly ahead of Rijkaard and Kaizer (with Facchetti having the whole flank for himself as your team doesn't have a right winger), Nedved is helping our Djalma against Best while keeping an eye on the midfield battle. Out of the 8 deepest outfield players only Djalma isn't capable of an outstanding on-the-ball contribution.

    Maradona is running riot here, with tons of space between your midfield and defence, van Basten is harassing your defenders, making space for our midfielders to come forward
  24. Sep 18, 2016
    #64

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Buffon
    Cafu - Ferdinand - Vidic - Carlos
    Beckham - Keane - Viera - Giggs
    Zlatan - C.Ronaldo

    Crosses onto whichever striker Baresi is picking up.

    Ferdinand with the intelligence and Vidic with the physicality to deal with Van Basten.

    Note:- Tried avoiding GOATs which made it even harder :lol:
  25. Sep 18, 2016
    #65

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    @harms My team above with Ronaldo (that I think P-Nut tried to counter) in was a team to beat my Pep inspired team at the top. How do you reckon that match would turn out?
  26. Sep 18, 2016
    #66

    BorisDeLeFora Full Member

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    Of players I have seen, a Pep Barca formation:

    --------------Buffon--------------
    Alves--Thuram--Nesta--Maldini
    -------------Redondo------------
    -------Xavi-----------Iniesta----
    Messi------Ronaldo----Cristiano

    To beat them...

    ---------------Schmeicel--------------
    Maicon---Cannavaro--T. Silva--Alaba
    Gerrard--Keane----Viera----Nedved
    -----------------Kaka-----------------
    ---------------Batistuta---------------

    Maicon has the physical attributes to do a decent job on Cristiano, Gerrard comes narrow with Keane and Viera whilst Nedved is slightly more withdrawn to look at Alves. Kaka is there from his powerful bursts on the break.
  27. Sep 18, 2016
    #67

    paulscholes18 Full Member

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    Great Dane
    Cafu Moore Baresi Carlos
    Beckenbauer Edwards
    Best Messi Ronaldo
    Eusebio

    Vs
    Pele
    Cruyff Maradona Garrincha
    Pirlo Keane
    Maldini Figueroa Passarella Santos
    Yashin
  28. Sep 19, 2016
    #68

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    -----------Ronaldo------VanBasten-------
    ------------------Maradona----------------
    -----------Zidane---------Edwards--------
    ----------------Beckenbauer--------------
    Carlos----Figueroa-----Moore----Maldini
    -------------------Buffon------------------
  29. Sep 19, 2016
    #69

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Tactical masterclass time

    Schmikes
    Thuram - Baresi - Maldini
    Nedved - Rijkaard - Giggs
    Di Stefano
    Messi - R9 - Best

    Make a ring of 6 options around Di STEFANO and watch him run the game with options everywhere!

    Nedved and Giggs to offer the width up and down the flanks. Thuram and Maldini as the covering cbs.
  30. Sep 19, 2016
    #70

    Sam M Banned

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    Neuer
    Alves Rio Nesta Alaba - Not the best players as much, but my favourite group. Partially inspired by the wonderful 12/13 Bayern side.
    Keane Davids
    Messi M. Laudrup Cristiano
    Romario


    To beat them with rapid counters:
    Buffon
    Thuram Thiago Silva Stam A. Cole
    Makalele
    Bastian Gerrard
    Robben Nedved
    Suarez
  31. Sep 19, 2016
    #71

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Your top team wins that 9/10 times
  32. Sep 19, 2016
    #72

    Sam M Banned

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    Yea, I figured that only halfway through. that Keane + Davids duo is very tasty
  33. Sep 19, 2016
    #73

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    I'd be interested to see a temporary you think would beat my 3313 formation I posted a while ago though
  34. Sep 19, 2016
    #74

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    In countering this set-up, the key principles would be to keep the park as wide as possible and to get a grip on the centre of the park with an extra man. Therefore I'd go 4-2-1-3:

    GK: Sepp Maier - top tier and has a Euros and World Cup winning connection with Beckenbauer in front of him.
    RB: Djalma Santos - to be positionally disciplined with Garrincha ahead and the Kaiser inside, tucking into form a back three if the latter moves forward
    LB: Giacinto Facchetti - right-footed to deal with Messi and has the athleticism to outstrip even Nedved going forward.
    CB: Jurgen Kohler - on the left to deal with an incutting Messi (see Italia '90).
    CB: Franz Beckenbauer - to dictate the game from deep, using early diagonals and switches of play to stretch your back three, with the covering ability to keep some tabs on Ronaldo.
    CM: Marcel Desailly - to stop Di Stefano from running the game, can also drop in for the Kaiser.
    CM: Edgar Davids - to provide energy to keep tabs on Nedved cutting in and the free-roaming Messi and Ronaldo, while providing a double-pivot to screen out Di Stefano's forward options
    AM: Diego Maradona - there'll be too much space for him here, he'll isolate Rijkaard, draw Baresi out and win the game
    RW: Garrincha - to draw Maldini out of the centre
    LW: Dragan Dzajic - plenty of inside-forwards or support strikers who could have been squeezed in here (Puskas, Zico, even Pele) but the park needs to be kept as big as possible. He also has the nimble dribbling style more likely to cause problems to a big defender like Thuram.
    ST: Gerd Muller - gets in ahead of Romario because Baresi did a fairly good job of shutting him out in 1994, and while Pele would work here, there is nobody better at getting on the end of balls across the end of the six-yard box. Also a focal point for Maradona in the box.

    Subs: Pedro Munitis and Brian Laudrup - probably the two attackers - Ronaldo apart - who caused the most problems for Thuram and Maldini respectively during their careers.
  35. Sep 19, 2016
    #75

    P-Nut0712 fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho

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    Nice I'd love to see Best, Ronaldo, Messi as a front 3 with Giggs and Nedved overlapping them though. All dictated by Di Stefano (struggled not picking Platini here).
  36. Sep 19, 2016
    #76

    2cents Full Member

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    Davids was great, but didn't Keane say he was a pussy or something along those lines?
  37. Sep 19, 2016
    #77

    Gio 4 times Redcafe Draft Winner

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    Not quite. In his book, Keane referenced a challenge he won in midfield against Davids in the famous Turin semi-final. Fairly sure it's at 5.45 below (or the one at 6.20):

  38. Sep 20, 2016
    #78

    Isotope Full Member

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    ----Best---------Messi---------Ronaldo--
    ---------Charlton--------Matthaus------
    ------------------Rijkaard--------------
    Facchetti----Kohler-----Baresi----Cafu
    -----------------Schmeichel--------------
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  39. Sep 20, 2016
    #79

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    :(
  40. Jul 17, 2017
    #80

    Synco Full Member

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    Old thread, but such a nice idea & I wanted to do this since then. I added bench players, so it's 18 vs 18.


    All time XI

    Matthäus ahead of Di Stefano may be unusual, but this team desperately needs balance, and Maradona already is the main man centrally. Otherwise it's the cram-everyone-in-regardless-of-synergy approach traditional for GOAT teams like this.

    Dunno about right back, just picked one of the obvious Brazilians. Carlos Alberto is said to have been a strategically minded player with good build up skills, so he's my choice.

    Puskas beats out Garrincha, Eusebio, C. Ronaldo for a place on the bench, couldn't go wrong with either I guess.


    ----------------------------Yashin----------------------------------------Zoff
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Baresi
    C. Alberto-------Moore---------Maldini-------N. Santos------------Facchetti
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Rijkaard
    --------------Matthäus-------------Beckenbauer---------------------Di Stefano
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Puskas
    --------------------------Maradona--------------------------------------Ronaldo9
    -------Messi------------------------------------Cruyff
    -----------------------------Pele


    The team to beat them will be a Serie A-heavy side full of talented, hardworking, tactically brilliant & tough bastards. I guess they would be much more of a cohesive unit than the GOAT XI, and that they'd have the right answer for basically everything short of otherwordly genius (which may happen, of course).

    The obvious approach would be to set up a deep defensive formation, aggressively close down & isolate the oppo's ball carrier, generally applying pressure only in one's own half for the sake of compactness. Every CB/CM here is able to rapidly pass or carry the ball into midfield openings in transition after winning it. The wing backs should give that GOAT team plenty of trouble on the flanks in such situations. I reckon the team as a whole should be able to contain them centrally, while also forcing them to think more about defence than they'd like to. My grasp of tactics is too limited for anything more specific :lol:

    Gullit was an all-purpose attacking player and a defensive menace, so he starts. Müller was a determined & super-intelligent defender too, so they'll constantly annoy & harass the oppo's build up after it passed the halfway line.

    Plan B: Best/Robben as super subs will change the whole composition of the game if needed, with the formation switching to 4-2-3-1. Robben could also replace Gullit to replicate his WC 2014 role.


    --------------
    G. Müller----------------Gullit-----------------------------Van der Sar
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------Thuram
    ---------------------------Platini------------------------------------------Marcelo
    Brehme------------------------------------------Dani Alves------------Keane
    ----------------Davids-------------Robson------------------------------Best
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------Robben
    --------Kohler-----------Nesta----------Bergomi----------------------Van Nistelrooy

    ---------------------------Buffon
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017