Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by RedMachine03, Mar 29, 2018.
I hope you are correct
Man Utd need the right Director of Football to stand any hope of catching Liverpool and Man City
Man Utd and Ed Woodward step up search for Director of Football after Jose Mourinho sacking
Man Utd director of football: Is Paul Mitchell the ideal candidate and how will role work?
EPL has moved on from traditional physical, defensive and route one football. There used to be many lower teams in EPL play this way. For the last few years, even lower teams in EPL fans demand modern fluid attacking football. People like Pulis and Big Sam was sacked by their respective clubs because of negative football. Even England, under Southgate is playing possession based attacking football. For us, it's the reverse, traditionally we are known to play attacking football but somehow we managed to appoint 3 defensive manager in a row in this modern era that caused catastrophy to the club for 5 years. It was atrocious.
The DOF must understand this and have clear plan and strategy to ensure that we keep playing attacking football as minimum requirement. The club structure, long term planning, manager appointment, player recruitment, scouts and youth system must be aligned to achieve the same objective.
As much as I hate to say this, Pep' s tiki taka and Kloop's gegenpressing is the way forward for modern football. There are many good managers out there playing similar style albeit not big name.
Having said that, I hope Ole can continue this form and get the permanent roles. It was emotional to see Man Utd can play good attacking football again under him.
Any update on getting this DoF? Everything has gone silent over last 2 weeks on this front
Email Ed and find out?!
Was hoping to have this done by January but as you say it's gone too quiet for anything immediate to happen
Let us know his reply. Ta.
Are you a total tit?
Right then, I'll explain it slowly for you. . .
Under FFP, clubs can only spend in proportional relation to the money they earn. .
this does not discriminate regards where the money came from / if it's gifted by a billionaire US family sponsoring Trump and the racist occupation of Palestine or if it's gifted from a family leading an arab nation put into power by and supported by the British government; it's not politically driven it's a pure mathematial sum whereby spend is held in relation to income.
Now this may be a surprise to you, but it's true, that we earn more than any other football club . that means . for the dipsticks out there, that our income is greater than any other football club on the planet. . let that sink in.
Thereby we can spend more than any other football club in the known universe. . . let that sink in.
Therefore please stop spouting your purile bullshit about City or any other club having some kind of financial advantage over us . . because it's obvious to anyone with an enquiring mind that it's f*ck!ng nonesense and that makes 'us' . . that is 'us United fans' look stupid.
So wise up please because you're an embarassment to the rest of us.
We are the club that makes the most money in the sense that we do not have a rich benefactor to dump money onto us like city does, we make our own money. So out of clubs like that, yes we are the richest. However, that money is not near infinite like city's and is in fact quite finite and it can all dry up if we continue to be unsuccessful for too long. If city did not have to contend with FFP they would be outspending us more than they already are. We can barely keep up. We also have to balance our big budget transfers with running costs, profit margins etc. We may be the richest, but that does not mean that wealth translates into true spending power.
I'm not getting through to you am I?
Knock, knock; in football there's this thing called FFP which guarantees that the more a club earns the more it can spend.
Now hold that thought in your mind and add to it the fact that we earn more than any other football club in the known universe.
Now; with those 2 facts at the front of your thought process you'll understand that we can outspend ANY club if our owners ever want to. If our owners choose to maximise their profit and income from their investment by turning us into an Arsenal then that's because we've got shit owners.
That's our issue to deal with and you spouting your embarrassing nonesense about 'we can't spend as much as City' (when anyone with 2 braincells to rub together can see that yes we can), is undignified, it makes us look as stupid as you are and it doesn't help.
Oh, and you do know that we cream in a lot of sponsorship from Arab states / oil money ourselves don't you?
Think you're missing the point. I recommend you read the Der Spiegel article on City's finances. It suggests falsely inflated sponsorships and shell companies setup to pay players wages through image rights not accounted for by their club finances. Amongst many other things.
So although our income may be higher. It does not mean we are on a level playing field with all of the alleged financial tricks going on.
Back on topic. I hope we get a director of football on board soon. Our planning has been terrible for years now and we are lagging behind other clubs now in terms of league position(last 5 years), youth facilities and even stadium investment.
Ah, I see! You’re employing the ostrich tactic. Very good sir!
Naive view on FFP there. If only it was that simple.
I've never seen someone get it so wrong while simultaneously patronising other posters!
Mate, why to mega condescending tone? Bee nice, lad.
Dear me. Lots of pent up anger behind this post, unpleasant.
I think both and. Gill would be responsible for the decision formally, but The Glazers, dominating the board, would want control over the decision, and I’m sure they’d want their man on the case and Gill would also normally defer to him as much as to Fergie, knowing Woodward would be guiding the ship from there on. I’d be surprised if they didn’t have regular meetings that whole winter and received reports from trusted men on several potential candidates.
Jose Mourinho? Too soon?
Thought it was a serious bump ffs!
I assume this will happen only in the summer now? Most of guys we would want surely are busy sorting out January and summer windows for the clubs they are currently employed at. Would have ideally liked someone to come in with Ole when Jose was let go. There is lot of trash in our squad that needs to be sorted & I am not sure that a guy can come in the summer and get on the job straight away.
Also, there are lot of contracts that need to be sorted. De Gea, Martial, Herrera, Mata, Jones, Valencia, Young, Pereira etc. - someone needs to make a decision on who will be offered a new one and who'll be let go. I am guessing the structure in place will be taking care of that. Is that ideal, though?
Is there a list of potential candidates for DoF?
What do we need for a DoF? Just knowledge of Football? Or do they need to have MUFC in their blood and DNA?
What level of maturity, personality, and specific experience should we be looking for?
Someone the complete opposite of Woodward. Woodie talked enough shite when he landed the role. "Do things other clubs could only dream of" - relies on Raiola and Mendes to get deals over the line hence our huge agent fees. Even Bayern taking the piss out of him - "we keep getting emails of increased bids from Manchester United for Muller, I can't close down my email account so I told them to stop".
No denying Woodward is class at commercial and marketing deals, he just hasn't grasped how transfers work, or at least how to manage the people involved. Big difference with signing official noodle partners who will gladly have their name appear pitchside - to dealing with a club like say Juventus who want to keep their talented players at all costs or take us to the fecking cleaners.
So we need someone who definitely understands the footballing side a lot more and can work better from club to club rather than Woodies perceived "football to business". Someone with experience within the game, either as a respected former footballer or someone already in a similar established club role. We need that connection - not rely on having to fork out huge fees and huge contracts.
Sort of like Van Der Sar?
Well worded post. Agree completely. Hopefully, Ed does too.
For sure. He’d have instant respect and doesn’t talk nonsense. Board will still set the budget of course, but someone of his stature would smooth things over quicker with all parties, he is well spoken also - rather than needing third parties/agents to get it over the line like we seem to do currently.
We badly need someone to be the voice and face of transfers, also getting players to swing in our direction without having to add extra zeros to their contract.
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To me, this is more intriguing then who will be our next manager. Its a role that has different responsibilities at different clubs, or so it seems. My impression is that it would be like real life football manager.
Also, if we were performing badly on the pitch, who is that on? the manager? the director of football? how would you tell?
We want Mitchell to be something he's never been..? Doesn't make sense..
If we want a DoF, then get someone with expirience.
The big question is whether the potential new appointment of a DoF(i will believe it when i see it) will remove certain people at the club away from footballing decisions. Will Woodward and the board continue to decide which players we can buy, extend contracts with, or will they completely remove themselves from these areas of the clob and only put a limit on the amount the football side of the club is allowed to spend?
Personally, i fear that this DoF talk is only meant to appease the fans when they and the media start to point fingers at Woodward/the board. And if we appoint one he will only be a figurehead with not enough authority/responsibility.
Good post mate.
The part in bold was what I have been thinking and fearing for a while that so-called 'yes man' will come in for Woody.
Personally I just want the appointment to happen as soon as possible and when this does keep Woody as far away from key footballing decisions. I hope that he gives the DoF the freedom they need to get the club back where it should be, competing for the top trophies
Well, yes and no. The DOF may be responsible for signing the "right" players but it is the Manager who deployed tactics. What if we sign Conte as the next manager who would like to deploy 3x DMF, and keep on asking for more DMF in case one of the 3 get injured. So the entire squad will have a dozen DMF in case the back up get injured. Or we re-sign Moyes as Manager who would like to make Century Cross into the box, obviously we need to sign Carroll, Crouch or anyone above 6 feet. If we force the new manager Mourinho #2 to use whatever he has, then he start bitching to the press about lacking support....
The DOF overlooks the signing of players and managers.
I'd like to think in a hypothetical scenario where OGS has done a fantastic enough job that he is given the position full-time, with a view that OGS would step upstairs to be a footballing director, once he had done all he could for the club as the head coach whether it be he's highly successful and doesn't think he could do more with the team a la Zidane or works himself into the ground after successful period a la Guardiola.
OGS clearly understands Utd and having him be an integral kingmaker at Utd would be great... heck if an appointment goes bad, OGS steps in for the rest of the season a la Heynckes.
So Ole does a spectacular job as head coach only to be moved to a different position anyway? Why do we need to fix something that's not broken?
Based on how the average head coach/manager cycle goes, it's usually between three and five seasons before they move on or get sacked. OGS even in a hypothetical position where he is a first team head coach and has a football directorship hierarchy working with him on all the facets of Utd, will still have a lot to do. Guardiola famously ran himself into the ground at Barcelona and just said 'feck it, i need a break even from my favourite team'
God only knows if OGS can create a trophy-winning team, but awesome if he does but we've seen many good managers do that and then they fail when their old team breaks up and they have to create a new one. That's why Sir Alex is so reverred because he did it 4-5 times for 1 club, and there really aren't many managers out there who can boast that. He might be the only one who's done that at this level so there's an extremely small chance that OGS could do it too.
But if he can do it and he doesn't significantly drop the standards like SAF did then let him continue, but in the more likelihood that OGS could hypothetically make one great team and fail to create a new one to emulate or even surpass it, meaning in the most cases a club will be looking to part ways or sack them, then we look to try to keep hold of him and move him into a football director position where he can still have an impact on the club and doesn't have to do the day-to-day stuff if there's a scenario that he's burnt out or has taken the team as far as it can go.
It's like how Matthias Sammer's coaching career has gone where he was a successful manager for a short time with Dortmund, then became a sporting director with Bayern after the Dortmund gig declined, but was able to be a part of a Bayern Treble team.
Tl;dr version - OGS could be successful but as current cycles go where 3-5 years is a typical cycle before a decline hits (unless they're some SAF 2nd coming) but if/when a decline hits, we shouldnt get rid of OGS and we should try to keep him on as a football director due to his vast knowledge of the club. Alternatively if he runs himself into the ground Guardiola at Barcelona style after success, then we should try to keep on as a football director and he has a less hectic role and more knowledge of how the club is run if that were to happen.
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Would rather see a DoF coming in now than in the summer.
As would I definitely.
The sooner the better in my opinion, to give them more time to fully assess the situation at the club and then start implementing the necessary changes as soon as possible.
Although I want the DoF in now, I want to make sure that the club bring in the right person as I believe this is going to be one of the most significant appointments in our history and I am not sure how lengthy a process this is going to be.
Good post! The bolded bit is absolutely key. I think it goes further than being shafted on fees as well; some signings (Di Maria? Mkhitaryan?) seem to have come about more as a result of the agent looking for a buyer than the club actually wanting the player. The DoF needs to be able to have a good professional relationship with the agents without being taken advantage of.
If they're going after someone at the level of Berta, we're probably not going to get them before that. They'd probably want to finish up things for the season rather than leaving their current club high and dry.
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