Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Gentleman Jim, Jul 2, 2019.
If you want to talk about the lack of investment between 2005-2011, go to another thread.
Perhaps I should have spelled it out to you that Ferguson's relatively gentle introduction to football management was at East Stirlingshire and St Mirren. Wasn't referring to Aberdeen as that was indeed a high pressure job with the Glasgow giants to contend with.
The asterisks I refer to are in your constant arrogance regarding United's entitlement (in your mind) to be the preeminent team in England "taking back our title".
If I could be bothered to comb through your previous body of work through all of your accounts I'm sure there would be many more examples of this.
Pep at City took over an ageing squad that had scraped 4th on the last day of the season and gutted the creaky defence, improved the midfield and strikers beyond recognition and added players who have drastically increased in value since they arrived. He has broken most extant records in the toughest League in world football (weakening League my arse) and established a style of football that chief rivals in England and even the National Team use as a template to aspire to improve themselves.
Back to Ferguson, though. He was a superb man manager and strategist. Better than Pep in that regard. His durability and foresight will likely never be equalled.
As a man I couldn't warm to him, not just because he was United's boss-I was a big fan of Tommy Doc-I just found Ferguson a bit of a user and a bully but that in no way detracts from the towering figure he was for the vast majority of his time at United.
Saint pep , does nothing wrong everything right. Won a title or 2 with Bayern , but anyone could there. Pissed off when no money to splash around. Give a man or woman the right tools to do the job, and usually you can get it right.
He's been given the right tools, called a overseas bag of cash.
Mou at United?
I dislike City as much as the next United fan, however, still doubting Pep’s worth as a manager? Must take some mental gymnastics to manage.
Mou had million pound knife and fork and told to build a house out if , by a munchkin from Neverland, not the right tools.
What position did Woodward play?
Did he have Joel Glazer on the Right Wing?
He also allowed Rui Faria to leave.
Its amazing that people who support and follow United still feel this way
plenty of City fans thought the same about Fergie
You throw it out and it's reeled In , fair play. City don't have followers, oh they have since 2008? Good luck to them deserve everything that's coming to them.
If they sign Cancelo or another RB i can see Walker playing some at CB.
You have fell into the trap that many opposing fans do. We had financial dominance over the league in the PL era but we didn't use it. This is Borne out by the stat that SAF was only the biggest spending manager in 1 of his 20 PL seasons. The football fan of today may well see this as a weakness. If we had used our financial advantage we would probably have won more than the 13/20 PL's SAF contested. SAF though was a very proud man. He didn't want to be known as a cheque book manager & he also wanted to bring through youth. It's ironic as the uneducated masses still put Utd's dominance down to merely outspending our opposition when this clearly wan't the case.
I can't think of any players youv'e missed out on due to financial constraints. I understand you gave up your interest in Fred. Jorginho wanted to join up with Sarri so his decision wasn't financially motivated. You could point to Sanchez but missing out was down to stubornness on your part. You had a deal agreed but we came in with a better offer. You could have easily matched what we offered but dug your heels in.
As the team with the largest amount of league titles we are entitled to call it our league. If Liverpool (closest challengers) or any other club break our record they would be entitled to do the same thing. It's a mark in history, which contrary to what many City fans seem to think, still counts.
All the stats point to the league weakening year on year. You won the league last year by 19 pts. This season Liverpool only challenged due to an incredible amount of good fortune. There was a 26pt gap between 1st & 3rd & a 32pt gap between 1st & 6th. We've had the Leicester & Chelsea seasons before this. I don't know how you could think that the league is of a better standard than a decade ago when the stats clearly don't bear this out.
You can't call it 'our league' title if you don't hold it anymore! The amount of times you have previously won it has no bearing on this.
Also Liverpool amassed 97 points, and won the Champions League last season. This wasn't down to an incredible amount of good fortune!
It was down to years of putting together an incredibly talented team and making two big signings in Van Dijk and Alisson that finally solved years of defensive issues. Yes we had some luck with late goals and GK errors, but so did Man City, yet you wouldn't say they were lucky?
You're taking this all too literally. The league winners trophy has spent more time at Utd than at any other club. It's normal to view OT as it's natural home. Other clubs will obviously win it & be champions for that year. If any club wins it 21 times then the baton passes to them & you could call Anfield or wherever it's natural home.
I never mentioned the CL but will admit you were the best team in it & deserved winners. Your league campaign flattered you immensely though. I have never seen a team have the amount of luck you had. Dodgy penalties, offside goals, & opposition keepers throwing the ball in is all that allowed you to keep pace. If you'd had a relatively normal amount of luck you would have got a points total in the mid to high 80's. This would have led to City winning the league by 9 - 12 points.
I read that City didn’t score a single winning goal after 75 mins in any match last year in the league! If true then would suggest we didn’t need any particularly late goals. I agree with the rest though!
thats just bollocks isnt it.
By your logic OT has only been the league trophies natural home since 2011.
I know that fellow united fans considered its natural home at least a decade before that. Because we became used to winning and rightly felt entitled to win the league as we had the best team. As lots of city fans do now.
rewriting history is a cnuts trick
Liverpool did get some luck over the course of the season, but you could just as easily say that City were lucky that the Mane Chance at the Etihad got cleared off the line through Salah's legs and the goal away at Burnley that was only just over the line and that Vincent Kompany scored a wonder goal that at home to Leicester that 99 out of 100 times he puts in to row Z etc.
I think that when you're a really good team you make your own luck. If you keep creating chances then you force the opposition in to mistakes.
You have to bear in mind that if you get a lucky goal to nick a 1-0 win then that also means that you've defended well enough to keep a clean sheet to get you to that point.
Who does City play in the original "Pep" role he played at Barca? Cruijff is a very pure theorist while I do not think Pep is so. But again in those days it was a team effort and lots of players did the dirty work of getting the flair players the chances to do things they do best. Players like BAkero would do their jobs given to them so others do their jobs.
If he follows Cruijff correctly then he would not get the full backs to start the attack. Cruijff is dead against it. I think like all good players he is finding it difficult to get someone to play in his role at Barca at City. The day he gets that sorted out they would be much better than even now.
I think Rodri could be the Pep, with Fernandinho being the Bakero, although I am not sure Pep is copying Cruifjs Barza. I think he is more adaptable to the opposition. Football has evolved since the last 30 years and I believe now is more of a team effort than before, pressing as a bloke and Pep even has Silva pressing... something I am sure Criujfs would never have done
It will be very interesting to see how Pep will set City up this season, thats for sure, and I believe their main focus this year will be the champions league, leaving Liverpool an easy way to the EPL. Hopefully Liverpool somehow manages it to feck it up but still think City's eyes will be in the champions league
City should sacrifice domestic cups if they want to have more chance in Champions League.
Pep cant do that
Citys owners want the champions league but citys fans in the main dont seem to care about the champions league, hence all the booing of the champions league theme for the past decade.
pep will not want to alienate the majority of his supporters
The fans are invested in Pep to such a degree that they just want what Pep wants.
Now that he’s convinced most of his critics that his methods do work in English football he will want to get the CL monkey off his back. He just loves solving puzzles and proving people wrong and this is the one remaining stone in his shoe.
City fans will quickly forget their aversion to the trophy if a realistic chance to win it comes along and it may well come along this season.
and last season wasn't?
i dont think the majority of the long time fans will, having talked to lots of them.
The new ones probably will
Just seen bit of Rodri press conference, his English is incredible for someone I assume hasn't lived outside Spain before. Should be quicker to adapt than many players who come from abroad.
Of course it was. City were bookies favourites for most of the tournament and somewhat messed it up but that’s the past and we can do nothing about it other than learn from it and go again.
I’m a long time fan myself (first visit to Maine Road 50 years ago) and the psyche of most of the old gits is to moan about things until it’s within reach then warm to it gradually.
It’s difficult for most to understand and defies logic.
After what looks like another dreadful transfer window for Utd, I am ready to get fully behind cheering City on in the League yet again.... Very sad times.
The Etihad almost exploded with joy when Sterling scored what he thought was the last minute winner against Spurs in the quarter finals. It's laughable to even suggest that a contingent of any club's supporters would give the cold shoulder to winning the biggest prize of them all.
I would categorise myself as a long term fan (47 years) and as with most of the City fans I know I still see the Prem as the priority. However I would have no problem playing reserves in the domestic Cups if it gives us a chance of a Prem/Champs Lge double. There is no way Pep is going easy on the Prem to get a Champs Lge though, and I expect us to aim for over 94-95 pts again.
I gotta say I really find City's transfer policy smart. They are not splashing insane amounts on star players instead going after multiple younger targets in the 40-60mil range that fit their philosophy and then groom them. I was actually shocked when I read that Rodri was their most expensive purchase in history.
They’re doing almost everything right whilst PSG are doing almost everything wrong.
I mean, kind of. We're both in a very similar situation - excellent domestically but underachieving in Europe - but City's achievements look better because the quality of Ligue 1 leaves a lot to be desired.
Yes they are doing everything right, buying the right profile of player largely.
They do however have a slight question mark at centre back right now as to who partners Laporte. Are they happy to go with Stones hopefully stepping his game back up to where it was (off field distractions have surely impacted his performances) and then Otamendi as backup? I have already stated that I think Walker could play there if they sign another RB. And there has been some suggestions that Fernandinho could drop back there too. as of right now though it is the glaring weakness in their squad.
And then looms the mammoth task inside the next 18-24 months of finding a successor to Aguero. Unless they strike gold somewhere that they will not be doing in and around the £50-60 million mark.
To me it seems like City are a well run club with not much drama surrounding it.
From a footballing perspective a far more balanced squad of players than PSG’s, and players who are playing like devoted footballers and are playing for each other, don’t see a hint of mercenary mentality there.
I can’t say the same about PSG.
Winning the CL is incredibly difficult and it takes a lot of luck as well, as in every KO competition.
No doubt City should be doing better in Europe, they were favorites in every tie they’ve lost in the KO of the CL since Pep was appointed.
The losses to Monaco and Liverpool reminded of some of United’s loses in the CL in the late 90’s, early 00’s, a lot of tactical naivety, over risky set ups.
The loss against Spurs was imo mainly Pep trying to overcomplicate things unnecessarily.
So what's happening here? Heard that their pre season flights got canceled twice?
They are grounded, hahaha.
China does not allow Club Jet to enter their air space. They will need special permission for this.
Awful setback to be honest. We're supposed to play West Ham on Wednesday but it might now happen now. This could impact our early season so I hope we get out there today.
They achieved 100 points with mainly Orta and Stones 2 seasons ago, so add Laporte to the mix and they don't have that many worries. Plus Ferna is more than capable of playing at the back. Walker isn't good enough for CB. He's too error prone and struggles sometimes with basic passes out from the back. His reading of the game is below par for whats expected for that position.
Aguero will be tough to replace. I wonder if Icardi can be that man? There aren't that many top quality options out there for centre forward.
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