Manchester United dropped 15 points against bottom 7 teams, more than any top 5 sides.

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by deafepl, May 12, 2018.

  1. May 12, 2018
    #1

    deafepl Full Member

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    City has dropped 2 points against bottom 7 teams and surprisingly Chelsea has dropped fewer points against bottom 7 than Spurs, United and Liverpool despite Chelsea is 5th in the league position.

    If United dropped the same amount of points as City against bottom 7 team, would be still behind City by 4 points and above Liverpool by 21 points gap. Also If United had the same amount of points as last season against the bottom 7 teams, would be still behind City by 9points.

    However, United has dropped 16 points against a 7-13th team last season but only improved this season by dropping just 6 points meaning United have gained more 10 points from 7-13th this season with a game in hand than last season and also gained more 10 points but dropped more 9 points from 13-20th placed this season than last season, I think this is not really kind of improvement I would expect from United against bottom 7 teams.

    Let's see how City progressed from last season, City has gained biggest difference points compared to last season than any team with a game in hand. City has dropped more 4 points against 7th-13th, 2 less than United with a game in hand against the 13th team but City has gained more 8 points from the 7-13th season, only dropped more 2 points from the bottom 7 team with a game in hand and gained 12 points from top 6 sides, which is their biggest difference point they have gained compared to last season. It's not about how the shit bottom team is compared to last season but top 6 sides allowed City to walk the league easily as they gifted City 12 points more than last season. If we didn't improve our difference point against bottom 7 teams next season compared to this season despite probably keeping the same amount of point we would gain next season against 1st to 13th compared to this season, we won't win the league. If we do improve, we would be in a good chance of winning the league next season but it'd be difficult and hopefully, City won't replicate next season.

    United's biggest weakness is set species as they conceded nearly half of the goals coming from set pieces that easily resulted in a draw and loss - Newcastle, Stoke City, Burnley, Leicester City, West Brom so we dropped 11 points from that than any team but we need to improve this and prevent this from happening again next season otherwive we would need to outscore team first by at least 2 goals before we conceded a goal from set pieces to assure that we don't drop point from that. On other hands, our attacking display is so meh, so cold and hot, inconsistent. Looked worse against bottom seven placed.

    That's why I don't have enough confidence that there would be literally improvement next season, there would be 50/50 we would get worse or going opposites in a different way like we gotten worse against 14th to 20th or gotten better against 7-13th and top 6 sides, we need to do both at same time, hopefully, better.


    Hopefully, we can sort this out next season.
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  2. May 12, 2018
    #2

    Glideman New Member

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    Things can change in an instant, let’s see how our transfers go, we can’t predict the future... no one really knows if we will be better next season
  3. May 12, 2018
    #3

    Litch Full Member

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    Stats don't always tell the full picture but there's definitely games we should have won that we could have made the league more interesting.
  4. May 12, 2018
    #4

    Bocca9978 New Member

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    This has been my problem with this season. Didn’t we lose to the bottom three sides?
    Amazing for a team that sets up to defend!
  5. May 12, 2018
    #5

    2cents Full Member

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    Reminiscent of Liverpool under Benitez.
  6. May 12, 2018
    #6

    AR87 Full Member

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    Has fallen for Fred way too soon
    I think a DLP, a box-to-box all action type to compete with Herrera and 2 FBs would make a major difference. There may be some structural issues remaining under Mou but if we added those 4 pieces I'd feel strongly we'd finish right around or above 90 points.
  7. May 12, 2018
    #7

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    The reasons for those stats are fairly simple, to be honest.
  8. May 12, 2018
    #8

    deafepl Full Member

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    It is okay to lose games or draw against bottom teams but drops 15 points is unacceptable.
  9. May 12, 2018
    #9

    AR87 Full Member

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    Has fallen for Fred way too soon
    I agree and I think it's largely because we miss the pieces I outlined which I feel are of utmost importance generally, but especially in breaking down deep lying defensees. Our FBs are a major reason I think we've looked as vulnerable on the counter as we often have in these matches.
  10. May 12, 2018
    #10

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    All those predictions assume we'll be as good as this season against the top 6 which is not a guarantee either
  11. May 12, 2018
    #11

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    Beating the smaller teams requires breaking down deep lying defences and organized teams which we don't seem to practice or be ready for. My problem isn't even the goals we've given away. Against Huddersfield for example we conceded two silly goals but there was still ample time to get ourselves back into it. We spent what 70 minutes messing around, looking like we had no clue how to score until we forced something near the end. I've always felt that the smaller teams have us under control and this is for me a big concern. Our record against the big teams this season is decent but I don't believe we'll replicate that next season so if we don't improve against these small teams we will be even further away from winning the PL. Personally I believe we are closer to falling out of top 4 than we are to winning the PL. Our challenge will be to stay in the top 4 next season which is very difficult to accept.
  12. May 12, 2018
    #12

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    This. Liverpool are a good example.
  13. May 12, 2018
    #13

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt Scouse Lover

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    It is normal for a poor attacking team to struggle against deep defences.
    The reasons we are such a poor attacking team has been discussed in other threads.
  14. May 12, 2018
    #14

    deafepl Full Member

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    Over 4 season, I think United has gained 18/19 points each season from the top 6 with the exception of 2016-17. I agreed this is not guaranteed, but if we win a game away at top 6, this is big for us.
  15. May 12, 2018
    #15

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Thats nuts when you look at the height of the current squad. This is the biggest United team i can remember.
  16. May 12, 2018
    #16

    2cents Full Member

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    Yeah. Two of our tall lads - Lukaku and Pogba - are actually liabilities at set pieces at times, while others like Matic and Bailly are quite useless in the air despite their physicality.
  17. May 12, 2018
    #17

    Water Melon before it dries out, eh

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    What is amazing is that only top 6 teams have positive GD in the league. Our's is 39, City's is 78.
  18. May 12, 2018
    #18

    Minimalist Full Member

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    All there is to it really. We're not a very good side in the final third (no matter what players are put in there). It's impressive that we've finished 2nd in spite of this.
  19. May 12, 2018
    #19

    coolredwine lameredboots

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    :nono:
  20. May 12, 2018
    #20

    coolredwine lameredboots

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    Doesn't add up with the usually rigid defense though.
  21. May 12, 2018
    #21

    Hammondo New Member

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    Our attack is simply not good enough.
  22. May 12, 2018
    #22

    Minimalist Full Member

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    All teams concede goals, unless they're drilled by a madman like Simone. United either through their tactics or De Gea's heroics have a decent goals against total.
  23. May 12, 2018
    #23

    Shark @NotShark

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    Hasn’t been for about 5 years now.
  24. May 12, 2018
    #24

    2cents Full Member

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    In more ways than one IMO - average wide players, dull football, decent cup side, capable of game-raising, but always likely to drop points against the dross.
  25. May 12, 2018
    #25

    Bojan11 Full Member

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    Agreed about the set pieces bit.

    In the last two seasons City have come to Old Trafford. They scored from one long ball. Then two set pieces this season where the giant David Silva scores past us. That’s appalling.

    If City came to old Trafford and opened us up with free flowing football then you can accept that even though it is hard. But conceding from set pieces against them is ridiculous.
  26. May 12, 2018
    #26

    Hammondo New Member

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    I don't think it's getting much better.
  27. May 12, 2018
    #27

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    In fairness, that first half in the home game against us last year they absolutely played us off the park.

    This year we played ok, and it was the set piece that did us in.
  28. May 12, 2018
    #28

    Stocar Full Member

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    Set pieces are usually about that extra sharpness that comes out of strength of will. Being good at set pieces, either offensive or defensive, is a testament to positive mentality of the team. That's why a team like Atletico is great at them, not because they are taller or stronger than anyone else.
  29. May 12, 2018
    #29

    stevoc Full Member

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    Welcome to United JoMo!
    Yeah must say i agree our centre backs in general are not great in the air with the exception of Smalling who is good for the most part. It makes you wonder why Mourinho leans towards players of taller stature who aren't great in the air.
  30. May 12, 2018
    #30

    Chairman Steve Full Member

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    This fits well with Jose's style of play for the most part. He likes to absorb pressure and counter-attack. The smaller sides are happy to sit back, set out to play for a point, not go for it initially, frustrate us then feed off of small chances and lucky breaks especially when we've hypothetically made 3 attacking subs and sacrificed a midfield/defensive head(s) for it. We still lack 1-2 additional players who are able to open up a team like that and get that goal that will make them come out of their shell and play to Jose's counter-attack.

    A skillful central midfielder who can put in a devastating through-ball could do that

    A skilful full-back/winger who can deliver a pin-point perfect cross to someones head or foot into the box could too

    A skilful full-back who can link up the play further up the field a la Evra also.

    And lo and behold, these are the types of players that universally we want to sign this summer.
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  31. May 12, 2018
    #31

    elmo Can never have too many Eevees

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    Our players are complacent and we lack that player that can just flat out bully the smaller clubs to get us the wins.
  32. May 12, 2018
    #32

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Man. United failing to score in 7 or 8 away games interested me more.
  33. May 12, 2018
    #33

    Tony247 New Member

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    Set up to defend but unable to effectively counter attack due to defenders who cannot play from the back. That brings wave after wave of attacks, making our attacking players put up defensive overtime who are prone to make mistakes on opponent's set pieces anyway.

    We need a strong experienced CB to bring the stability at back and who can play from the back. Only Bailly can play like that and he desperately needs an experienced partner to form something to bloom into terry-carvalho, terry-ivanovic, vidic-ferdinand.

    I strongly believe one real good CB will dramatically improve fortune of this team.
  34. May 12, 2018
    #34

    groovyalbert Full Member

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    I can't think of a single player from the other top clubs that does this, with the exception maybe of Kane. It definitely comes down to our style of play/mentality on these occasions.
  35. May 12, 2018
    #35

    izzydiggler Full Member

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    There are some big flaws with our squad and it can be very dull but in terms of points, we've a) improved massively from last year and b) we would have been challenging for title in many other years with the same results. Man City are breaking records...we should obviously be ambitious enough to try and improve to challenge but I'm not too worked up over the statistic.

    My point is that we've always lost/drawn games we should have won - almost unbelievably, the treble winning side drew 13 PL games that season. Yes, we can and should improve at creating chances and putting worse teams to the sword but it's a tough league where promoted teams are now amongst the richest in Europe...I'm not saying we shouldn't be winning these games but...
  36. May 12, 2018
    #36

    Bocca9978 New Member

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    Completely agree. Would be good to see a Vidic type player come in to calm the back four down.
    Big summer for Mourinho to prove he can get quality in.
  37. May 13, 2018
    #37

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

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    What annoys me is that our default set up is to sit deep with men behind the ball, invite teams forward yet somehow DDG is still one of the busiest if not the busiest keeper in the PL. That doesn't sit right with me. We sacrifice attack to be solid defensively yet we are anything but solid defensively because DDG is being made to work more than he should. In short these defenders except for Bailly are not good enough both defensively and offensively. Defensively because of the reasons just mentioned. Offensively because they can't build from the back. A Serious lack of technical ability and spatial awareness in some of them especially Smalling and Jones. It's not difficult to open up your body and pass in between the lines but they can't even do that. To be honest I can't wait until Smalling, Jones and Rojo are all gone. And if Lindelof doesn't want to man up and be more braver than he can follow them as well. But I'll give him until next season because he only just arrived. Being solid in general is good but not good enough for Untied. We're not asking for Xavi and Iniesta levels of technical ability but we do need upgrades to speed up our laboured play and defenders who understand the concept of things you do to open space and other things you mustn't do because spaces close.
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  38. May 13, 2018
    #38

    cyril C Full Member

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    Putting aside the Lindelof mistakeS, Pogba had his hands on practically all of these. He likes to take on players on every opportunity, but when he failed, there is only 1 or 2 defenders behind him.
  39. May 13, 2018
    #39

    Tony247 New Member

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    Smalling is average. Quite disappointed with Lindelof. The boy does not instill calm at the back. Each time the team attacks it is matic who covers the front of our box, literally stays close to the line whereas ideally he should be manning front half of our half. We invite teams so close to our box it demands back four to distribute balls cleverly to start any effective counter attack. Instead we see Pogba drop deep to retrieve the ball. He needs to be somewhere near the front half of our half to start any kind of effective counter attack. Same with Rashford. Matic is acting last line of defence shows his lack of confidence in CB. Everything is cascading effect of that.

    First get an excellent pair as CB and free up Matic to intercept attack near the front half of our half. If they go pass Matic & Co. then CB should intercept and distribute the ball in midfield. This then will lead to counter attack which can reach to their box before they even recover to their position. You do this 5 times and then opponent will think twice before going all out attack on us.

    Now, how to break them when they sit back is to get a proper no. 10 and a RW who can cross.
    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  40. May 13, 2018
    #40

    Tony247 New Member

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    In his chelsea days Matic in front of Cahill, Ivanovic, Azpi, Terry was different beast. At Man U he is almost a part of back 4 line, and like a magnet he pulls our attacking midfield with him towards our box.
    Last edited: May 13, 2018