Manchester United: Have fans reluctantly accepted their team's 'B-List' status

To answer the actual title (question) of this thread, I would say, absolutely yes. I accept where we are. We will struggle to make top six, let alone top four.

I worry about the Fulham game.

Good post, absolutely correct. It's an important point too.

The fans have been feeding on scraps for ages, they were happy to see effort. Any dope in here criticizing them United fans last night deserve no respect. Going out to a midweek game in freezing conditions in December to support there club, who are going nowhere. A club that are in a really bad place at the minute, the bar set incredibly low. They were appluading a bit of desire from some of the players. You know they aren't happy with what they are seeing, still wanting to support them as best they can. What would people do if they were at the ground last night? Boo and stand there for 90 minutes silent with there arms folded. It's times like this you see what the fan base are really made of.

I want Mourinho out like most people, he's destroying us and everyone can see it. We know it's going to end sometime, sooner rather than later by the looks of it. You don't turn your back back on the team though, it's easy to support a team that's winning all the time. You stick through it in good and hard times, it's not about being ''a top red". It's being a supporter of any team. I don't enjoy watching United at the minute like many but I know it will eventually change. We still have some really good players at the club that have been lost to this manager, it will get better. I don't think it's good enough and have high standards for United, not turning my back on them though. It will take a season or even two. I love United and it hurts to see the fall, I know it will mean so much more when we eventually get back to the top. Sick of posters in here acting almost enlightened about how people should act at Old Trafford. The absolute state of them, unless you were at the game last night don't be commenting on the fans. Analyse the game, performances ect..not the fans trying to support the team.

Agree with most of this...... Support the team? Yes. Cheer for a lung bursting run or a thumping tackle? Yes. Cheer when Bailly asks for some more noise? Yes.

Sing any song about Jose that doesn't include the words "feck off Mourinho" in it? NO

For years under SAF I thought Madrid fans spoilt and impatient but after the last few years am actually starting to envy the culture. There's zero tolerance for mediocrity and never rationalise bad situations. Their greatness certainly goes beyond their joint monopoly in La Liga.

We on the other hand hold this subservience to managerial authority and since SAF left we've had a ton of false shepherd managers abuse this trait

Yes, match going fans are accepting that we are a b list club now as far as the football goes. This is why this support the manager mantra is being by most of them and serenade Jose every day during the match.
Yesterday's match was entertaining not because of the good football but of the comedy factor of the goals scored.
I am as puzzled as anyone why the match going fans still support Jose? He is throwing everyone under the bus now. And he is still getting his team selections wrong and his tactics wrong.

what sort of football fan are you?
Hounding managers/players is what we do best

And referees and Owners and the Board too.

That’s the point though, isn’t it? The players aren’t trying, at least not consistently. No doubt in my mind that if we tried more, we’d win more games.

Complete nonsense, just a few games ago the fans were booing a poor performance. The game against Arsenal was praised because we put in enough to win, if it were not for individual mistakes at the back. Match day is not the place for making salient points, fans don't think like that on the day.

Anyone that thinks this is some sort of manipulation by the manager is completely detached from the match day experience. Most match going fans want Mourinho out, they are simply not so deluded like arrmchair experts on the caf that think that a new manager would turn us into a world class team.

Matchday fans don't think that a new manager could turn a team around as has been evidenced a million times before? (Are you one btw?)

We put enough to win ? How? What chances did we create? At no point were we in winning position
Last time I checked DDG had to save us twice whilst their keeper was untroubled especially those last 20 minutes.

Would you try for this manager?

Are you a match going fan? I ask not to get into top red stuff as I am not a regular match going fan myself. I've been to plenty of games and hung out with match going fans and my perception of the local match going fan is that watching United is more about their experience and ritual. The result, and even to a certain extent the style of play, are second and third to this.

Hence why, when I listen to some united podcasts recorded on the buses to and from away games and I often hear fans describing their enjoyment of games in terms of the day out and the craic and less so the result or performance. It even goes so far as they value whether the players and manager came over and acknowledged their support after a terrible performance / result more than the performance and result matter.

They've been there in the good times and bad and they've seen so many triumphs that their perspective on success is fairly well balanced. There is also a bit of a loyalty code and unwritten rules about what is right and wrong when following united. E.g. you don't boo your own team; you get behind the manager until he is no longer the manager etc etc

If I go to a game I find I too am less angered by a result or performance than I would be if I watched on TV; most likely because I got something more than the match from the experience - e.g. the road trip and the social side of meeting up with fellow united fans. I also love that once i am around the ground I feel I am among 'my own' even though i am an out of town red who has very tenuous links to Manchester at best.

Not what I said at all. Matchday fans want Mourinho out because its obvious we should be competing for the top 4, not in mid table. I have however yet to meet any match going fan that thinks we'd be an elite team if we just attacked more, which was quite popular here last season because De Gea was masking our defensive problems. This season he's not been superhuman so the shortcomings of the defence have been exposed. This is my experience from going to about 20 or so games a season, althought i used to go to more games when I was still a student.

Part of it is desperation I think, it’s a big part of your life if you go regularly in terms of time, effort and financially as well. People don’t want to believe it’s hopeless and that it will somehow magically all get better.

Fans are clutching at straws from last night like they did after the Spurs game because there is nothing else to hold on to.

Stick that matchday fans are getting here is absolutely disgusting.

I think we have accepted that we are no longer a TOP club (results and performances wise, I couldn't care less about Deloitte or Forbes richest lists). However blaming match going fans is stupid and the people who do it probably never been in a football stadium. You go there to support your team, doesn't matter how bad they play but if you buy the ticket, spend hours to get to the stadium, you support your team. People who just can't watch this crap simply no longer go to matches. After bad performances supporters let their feelings known by booing, what else are they supposed to do? We all know our board is absolutely useless and they won't take any action until it's cheapest. We had planes, massive boos when LVG was in charge, board just doesn't give a shite.

We are miles behind at least 5 clubs in England (jury is still out on Arsenal but so far they look a much better team with Emery in charge). And we are not closing a gap, we are lagging further and further behind if anything. Most of the fans have no confidence in the manager, the board and even the squad which is filled with lots of players literally stealing a living. While losing a game would really hurt a few years ago, now it's just "eh, whatever, we are shite anyway" so at least I kinda accepted it especially as I don't see us challenging for a title anytime soon (basically as long as Pep is in England).

So why so many people moan about the Glazers? Did the old ownership provide free coach travel?

Sorry, I don't understand the first question. Can you rephrase or explain it please?

I also don't see the relevance of your second question or how it could relate to your first. Again, if you are able to clarify or contextualise it in a different way it might help me here.

People love to moan about everything. When a player makes a tackle, he gets applause. You can either appreciate (or ignore) it or say "Has this what it has come down to. Claps for a routine tackle"

Exactly this, the cult of the manager has turned into a noose around our neck, at any other top club the fans would have called out Mourinho on the shite he's serving up week after week, but here the fans inside the ground think they are obligated to treat him like a deity, even if they talk shit about him once they get out of the ground.

I don't believe anyone is happy with the current situation. I was there last night and I'm 100% Mourinho out but I always want us to win, I don't know any other way. So I'm going to get behind the team and support them, I'm not going to boo and I'm not going to sing Mourinho's name.

I'm sick of the poor leadership of this club and it has gone beyond embarrassing. Mourinho is toxic and the board are spineless - it's exasperating.

I genuinely believe we are about as low as we can get right now. Being this bad and being Stoke means you get relegated but being this bad as Man Utd means you drop to mid table. Why Jose is still in a job is deeply frustrating but he has successfully lowered expectations, deflected blame on to the board and to the players before we even started to lose games. The result is that broadly speaking, the fans are divided into blaming the board, blaming the manager and blaming the players. In truth all have to take responsibility but the board and the players aren't going anywhere fast. Removing Jose will not mean a quick fix but it will improve the atmosphere around the team and might ensure some of our best players want to stay. It could hardly get worse by appointing a caretaker manager until the end of the season.

The board probably don't want to sack Mourinho because then the attention will turn to them and whilst the fans continue to support the team, they can sit comfortably counting the commercial revenues, waiting until Mourinho mathematically fails to get rid of him and then start planning by which time we will be another 6 months' behind. If they were actually looking to appoint a DoF then at least we would have some hope that things are going to change but Ed Woodward doesn't want to relinquish power it seems.

This is really something that grinds my gears right now and I can feel that I take on that attitude as well at times. "Well we put up a fight and didn't play like the Stoke of old for 10-15 minutes, so I can't be too angry about the result." But the truth is, just because we can look much worse than last night, we shouldn't accept that what we saw last night is going to be our best from now on. We should strive to close that gap to City in the near future and leave no stone unturned to do just that. They raised the bar and it's upon us to rise to that challenge and I can't stand seeing my club in a state where a mentality is setting in of "Oh well maybe we can make top 4 this year with a bit of luck."

Look at the league table and it will tell you how far away we are from the top teams. 3 wins in the Premiership this season. Scandalous for a club like Manchester United.

Yeah there's some truth to that. I think they've (match going fans) have become far too idealistic and self conscious as fan base. I admire them for the fact that they physically support the team whereas people like me do not. However I do think fans have to communicate and voice their views in some manner. Just coming and cheering is not for me the only role of our fans. You have a place, an importance. That must be acknowledged and acted on.

I guess the supporters want to show some kind of support when team's obviously in trouble after lackluster summer preparations also thanks to Ed Woodward's lack of balls on the market.

United supporters are far from being spoiled. They're extremely patient and understanding. The player's cars are not stoned, you don't see white tissues waving in the stadium, players are not harrassed by some fanatics who can't have life outside football and list goes on and on...

It's just sad that people in charge use fan's civil behavior to continue their shenanigans towards football matters.

EDIT: Giving new contracts to same underwhelming players doesn't help, too... wondering how long will last the manager after Mourinho.

Yeah, people are pleased with us running around or getting draws these days. To be fair I think the fans at OT are also sick and tired of Mourinho. But I find it a bit strange that our performances have apparently not been poor enough for much dissent to surface.

I've accepted our B list status while Mourinho and Woodward are in charge. Just wish they'd hurry the feck up in firing the pair of them.

Don’t worry about it mate.

I get your frustration, believe me. But I don't see how booing during the game is going to make the players play better. It'll also create a horrible atmosphere inside the stadium.

But we certainly shouldn't be singing songs in support of Mourinho if we don't want him here. If fans think he's the right man, fair enough - they pay their money and can sing whatever the like. But I'd question the motivations of those who sing 'Mourinho's red and white army' even when they want him gone.

To be honest the best protest of all is simple: don't go.

We played good? Where/how? We were below par again, this was at home and we are happy with a draw? This is the problem!

United are one of the elite clubs in the year, but we are playing like a mid table premier league team, if that.

Where has the ambition and desire to be the best gone form our fans? Shameful

If our club had really gone into B list status, places like the BBC wouldn’t be so gleefully discussing our every event on an hourly basis.

It is terrifying me to feel that way. We should never let anyone make us settle with that B team status or whatever that is. I am afraid that the board has a very limited ambitions.

The booing is an end to a means. It is simple. Booing will make the press pick it up and that gets Ed Woodward worried about things and may make the right decision in sacking Jose Mourinhio. Booing does not mean that we do not support the players, the team or the club.

Mourinho needs to feck off from the club.

That's what we need to accept

I know we all like to moan and whatnot. But Arsenal were the team this place was creaming over just on Sunday and almost all of this place were predicting a thrashing. It was an evenly matched affair with quality and a lack of it. For what it's worth, I thought we played well - significantly better than we have since the City game.

As for the overall point, as someone who defended (past tense) Mourinho for most of his tenure, I don't think standards have dropped. Up until this calamitous season, it looked like we were heading in the right direction. However, we may not need to accept the b-list status as we're close to becoming a second rate team.

It just shows how far we have fallen and how well Jose's mind games have worked on quite a few people.
Now all that is needed to label a performance as satisfactory is for players to have tried hard. As Roy Keane would say, that is the bare minimum that we should see for every single game. Trying hard is the base level and that on its own is not fecking good enough. The problem is we've dipped below an acceptable base level so often this season that we now think that trying hard is something special.

When lots of players aren't giving a shit from game to game, that is a problem with motivation. Its Jose's job to motivate the team, ergo, Jose should be long gone. Its tragic that he is still here..........

I've accepted that we're a B team now, but I've not accepted that we can't do anything about it.

We need to get rid of Woodward - he's responsible for a lot of the mess we're in and seems unable to do anything about it.

Effort is to be expected, not applauded.

I remember a time when without effort payers wouldn't be allowed past the gates at Carrington, now it's reason for applause at OT.