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I don't think anyone does.
Reading this thread would make you think Jamie Redknapp had decided to open some RedCafe accounts.
He doesn't need a loan, he's doing fine as he is, he just needs to keep working and improving, we've just given him the number ten shirt he's obviously not going anywhere.
He is such a talented player with incredible dribble and rocket speed, he has two problems that unfortunately our manager can't fix because he don't have the tools to improve youth, first his decision making, second inconsistency. If Sir Alex had Rashford as a product he would have turned into world class player.
Nah, Sir Alex would have found a place in the side that could hide his flaws while somehow increasing the level of the starting 11.
We dont appreciate LVG enough for developing young players. If Jose was the coach at the time not sure Rashford ever would have got the chance.
Its unfortunate that neither Rashford or Martial seem to have improved since LVG but both are still young and I see great things.
Rashford isnt far from putting it together and when he does, should be absolutely elite. Needs playing time though, for sure. I guess whatever I say about Rashford goes for Martial, too. They both are similar level, have similar strengths and weaknesses.Both lack a little bit of confidence, decision making and intangibles to be elite
Then again can we evaluate them accurately under Jose? No one looks good. Sanchez looks average. Rashford and Martial looked far better under LVG than the present level Sanchez.
Don't do it to yourself buddy - giving compliments to LVG will only be attributed to being blind. He had much more of a long term plan which always utilized younger players & I wonder who else would be here if he had stayed. The fans would have left the stadium though - I can't deny the football was purposely restrictive but ultimately beneficial to young players over more experienced players.
If he had just a couple games post FA Cup win he would have plopped martial & Rashford in partnership with Lingard behind which would have extended all development. He also unearthed the best CDM/CB hybrid in Blind but Jose sold him to let Fellaini do that. 352 was the answer to develop all the players from TFM to Rashford or Martial.
It’s like everyone has been hit over the head. Look at the amount of youngsters playing and brought into the club ffs. Look at what we are seeing from Shaw; look at how Lingard has developed. Look at the comparable to Pep who, for some crazy reason, is heralded as a champion of youth. It’s like if you have a negative opinion about a player or manager, you can just keep throwing shit regardless of whether it actually makes sense or not.
Despite the plethora of evidence available, people still keep pretending that top managers continue to develop and produce youth players. All of them buy in their talent, none have the time afforded to them to give youth a chance when it isn’t quite ready unless they have no other choice.
I agree on Shaw (this season so far) and Lingard. Not sure about the comparable to Pep comment, since they had Sterling and Sane starring last season.
Both of whom were established players bought for huge sums of money. Coincidently, Sane is in almost an identical situation now that Rashford is. At least Jose trusts him enough to start him.
Bit like Shaw.
Anyway I think this thread shouldn't focus on the managers.
Rashfords development is interesting and IMO development of strikers in the modern game too. Football now has the tendency to push young strikers into wide positions, its not just happening at United.
Exactly. So how does Jose come in any less favourably? The only concernable difference, is that Jose plays academy players.
I never said he did, and again I don't think this thread should focus on the managers.
You said you “weren’t sure” about the Pep comparable, and then provided some players in an attempt to counter my post. If you weren’t disagreeing with the point I made, then what were you trying to say, exactly?
The point I was making was Shaw (4 games this season) and Lingard are not comparable to Sterling and Sane of last season in terms of their development as players.
You were comparing a player who was basically no where near good enough last season and has had an decent started this season yes, but its only been 4 games, and then Lingard who again was in and out of the team last season with 2 players in the running for team of the year last season.
You then said both were established players bought for big money, as if Shaw wasn't. It just wasn't a good comparison that you used was my point.
Compare stats as an 18yr old then 19 yr old then 20 yr old club and international !!!
Then why did Jose buy Lindelof and talk up Matic playing as a CB in a back 3 in pre season! N Matic is 30 6'5 has all the tools to play as ball playing CB in a 3 does he not?
Playing a midfielder in defense is a terrible idea. Matic will get exposed in this position.
Lindelof was a mistake of a signing and we should have targeted someone else.
Its ok we've got Fellaini ducks for cover
Yeah that idea needs to really be binned ASAP.
TBF not sure we can play someone else to cover for Lindelof mistakes every game.
Let's go back to Rashford.
Still think he should be played up top with Lukaku. Same with Martial. We've not tried this much (if at all?).
Matic will not get exposed if you have Bailly and Smalling pace plus we dominate the ball and push the team higher up the pitch which he will do naturally !
What's exactly the difference between playing 4-3-3 with Matic as DMF in front of 2 CBs and playing 3-5-2 with Matic still dropping between the 2 CBs ? He can drop and support them in 4-3-3 then.
Hindsight as we know is...a bitch but I have no doubt we would have been so much better off with LVG instead of Jose right now.
Also I'm sure we'd have more young players break through the ranks cuz that was simply the LVG way, he is amazing for developing young players.
That dude we had at the left back, what was his name? Played really well under LVG.
Dont get me wrong, Im not glorifying LVG, we are United and we care about winning first and foremost, it was the right decision to fire him cuz game passed him by just like Jose but gotta give credit where its due. Amazing for young players development and again who knows if Rashford would have got his chance under Mourinho. Ditto Martial.
But let the bygons be bygons, hope Mourinho is gone soon. I expect really big things from Rashford. Should be one of the best in the world regardless.
Not having 2 strikers?
2 strikers aren't exclusive to 3-5-2 though. Can play the diamond 4-1-2-1-2.
Sane can't even get a start.
At no point did I even suggest we didn't spend money on Shaw, but if you want that to be factored in, then accept it wasn't Jose that spent big on him.
Just two quick points from me.
1) I really want and believe in Marcus to do very, very well here.
2) Jamie Redknapp can feck off
So we can all agree that he is never a winger, yes?
Rashford is a natural number 9. He should be running in behind and getting on the end of things... not cutting inside or crossing on the wing. That’s not his game. Play him as a backup to Lukaku but don’t play him on the LW...
When people say this it really annoys me.
Firstly United were short of striker options at the time. Rooney was injured, Martial was injured in the warm up, Will Keane was the other striker option but was also injured.
Thus the only reason LVG chose to use Rashford is because none of the other strikers were fit.
If the above 3 were never injured then no way would Rashford have got a chance.
LVG was awful with youth, he had a scatter gun approach, just hoping something would stick.
Blackett and Macnair were both being played under LVG, and are both poor.
The only reason fans put up with him for so long was because he was starting a lot of youth players. Probably only did it because he knew the fans would lap it up and it would buy him more time.
Not really sure I agree it's a good article when it just compares numbers, nor do I understand how it should give people more confidence about him. I can't imagine that there's many questioning what he's achieved at a very young age, the debate is about what will happen going forward and what the best course is. I interpreted Southgate's comments as a way of asking people to reflect over the fact that Rashford is still at an age where even the best players in the world weren't close to being the established stars they have become. Which is fair enough. Just looking at the stats is a bit bizarre, to be honest. What was Robinho like at that stage, stats wise.
The interesting thing about the comparisons, which people miss out on, is the different roads to where the players are. Lukaku proved that you can be at a club with top players (Chelsea) and improve as a player by being loaned out, are people questioning if he'd be a better player now if he had stayed at Chelsea, surrounded by great managers, players and top class facilities ?
In the 05/06 season, when Ronaldo turned 21, Ronaldo was showing glimpses of how good he could be, but he was also at a stage where plenty were questioning if he'd ever become good enough to lead Manchester United to any trophies. Plenty on here wanted him gone after the World Cup debacle between Ronaldo and Rooney. Plenty mentioned quite a few players as better alternatives. He then went on to become one of our most important players when we won the league in 06/07. Very few imagined that he'd become that good, some even preferred it when Darren Fletcher played as a right wing instead of Ronaldo.
Part of the question is if Rashford gets enough development in the right areas on the pitch, not if he gets enough time on the pitch, which plenty of people will have an opinion on.
Given his athleticism, he has the potential to turn into an absolute beast of a player. Question is if we can get him there by mostly playing him off the wing. For all we know he can easily mature into that player during the course of the season. Harry Kane proved that...
Not sure why some feel that there's no valid argument to be had ref his future and how it should be handled.
Mourinho wanted to sign Shaw for big money actually the same year we signed him. Shaw chose us due to our higher wage offer and Mourinho made a stupid remark about it in the media and LvG had a talk with Mourinho.
Rashford to me is proving that he is at his best as a secondary striker which is awesome because it frees up the left wing for Martial.
This should be our attacking line up.
Martial Rashford Lingard
Or Sanchez instead of Lingard.
Rashford is better through the middle IMO whereas Martial is better on the left cuz his strength is taking players on.
I don't think he is improving the winger role IMO, he tries the same kick it past and run after it trick every time.
That's great. Still didn't sign him though.
Rashford a good talent wouldn’t start for any of our rivals so what’s with this entitlement that he should be starting for us week in week out? Is he better Han the players in front of him? No! I didn’t see the media pushing this story when he was missing sitters and ruining attacks. Only after his double vs Liverpool and his double for England we hear this rubbish.
Or a 442 diamond
Biggest pile of nonsense I've ever heard. Lets see what the FACTS are pal not your nonsensical opinion. LVG ran out of striker options when he chose to sell 2. An injury to Martial meant Keane got called up. He got an injury so LVG had to play Rashford. Credit to him for playing him after that but which manager wouldnt if a player is winning you games. Are you going to forget he wanted Muller or Ighalo even when we had Rashford. Also Rashford, Martial and Lingard had their best seasons under Jose. But sure fans like you would believe myths that one of the most successful managers in history doesnt know how to develop players or coach attacking. You would rather have us sitting 15th with Ighalo and Muller up top and Fellaini at CAM with Rooney CDM.
Im not getting into this as it will derail the topic but Jose's inability to develop some of the players that have now become some of the best in the world is well documented.
He holds players back, just like he held De Bruyne, Salah and others back, he is now holding back Rashford.
Dont want to make this about Jose though.
Rashford I think is better than what he's showing now, just like all of our players but like I said, dont want to make this about Jose. As it relates to Rashford and Martial, Im sure both will excel once we have a new manager. Wait and see.
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