Marouane Fellaini 2018-19 Performances

Its not exaggerating at all, in 5 and a half years how many times has he scored the winner or an equaliser in the last ten minutes?. I don’t know the stats but it will be a handful and on average once or twice a season and that’s what you said we should keep him for.

Too many fans have convinced themselves you need this option and it works and the reality is it doesn’t. Not having him on the bench won’t make the slightest difference over course of a season.

You said initially time and time again he has been effective now it’s just he ‘can’ be effective which is what I said from the start. Few times a season it works, most of the time it doesn’t and trying other things instead will get better results.

He has just been fortunate to play for United during the tenures of outdated, negative and failing managers. That’s why he has had a career here, it shouldn’t be seen as some kind of achievement.

Everton got the best out of him by playing very direct, his best skills involve the ball being in the air so to see the best of him you have to play a certain way. If you want to play fast, attacking football he isn’t suited to it and won’t be picked. Why would you play him unless you are going to play direct or lace a lot of emphasis on set pieces/crossing. He’s a make do option (like plenty of others) that we need to move away from.

Like a number of other players in our squad he simply isn’t suited to way we are currently playing.

I've absolutely nothing against Fellaini. He's a warrior and has never hid in the big games like some others have.

He's just not a good fit for our style of play. Moving him on would be a positive sign.

100% agree. He's not my cup of tea but he's also not the terrible player some people make him out to be. When he was used in his best position (number 10) he was pretty useful at times and scored some absolutely vital late goals. Even in midfield he seemed to rise to the big occasions when others wilted.

He's probably been wasted at United. Playing off the striker every week at Everton was a much better use of his abilities. He will definitely be a useful asset for whatever club he ends up at. Few defenders will look forward to having to deal with him.

Well he has at least 7 goals alone off the bench for us, but you think he's only been effective about 5 times.

So unless he scores or directly assists he's not made a difference? Just look at the impact he had when brought on against the Juve comeback. No assist or goal, but his introduction forced Juve to change their set up and approach entirely. But you wouldn't count that.

Have a look at the numbers of some of the most prolific players off the bench. Hernandez had 1 goal about every 95 minutes. As a sub he was rarely brought on before the hour mark, and usually much later. So that would be a goal every 5/6 sub appearances at the most? And this is a player that contributes little more than just goals. Our current manager and fabled super sub, arguably the best player we've ever had coming off the bench, only scored a goal ever 92 minutes off the bench. Factor in both of these players played in a time where we scored significantly more goals than we have since Fergie retired.

Seriously, are you even reading what I write? You're continually creating this straw man. I've said several times now that I'm apathetic as to whether he stays or goes, nor have I said we should keep him. I'm certainly not one of these posters who is convinced we need this type of option, so if you're going to continue this line of argument, then you need to provide me with a quote where I've stated it. Otherwise respond to what I've actually put, not what you want me to put. All I've said is he can be effective, and if he remains at the club he will continue to be a valid option off the bench. That doesn't mean there aren't other avenues we can go down.

When he came I hoped he would be the physically strong defensive midfielder that I thought we needed at the time, but he's never really excelled in that position. The game seems to pass him by and gives away too many free kicks.

These days for a defensive midfielder you do need someone who other than reading the game well you need someone who can switch play and hit passes through the lines (certainly for the top sides anyway ). Probably simular in that respect to central defenders who for top clubs can no longer just be good at heading, tackling and marking.

He is better then some people say he is but he certainly not a United central midfielder or even worse a no.10 which he has played at times.

I won't be dancing on his grave if he goes as I think he has tried his best for us and does deserve a bit of respect but I won't be sad if he leaves in January.

No idea why there's a debate between anyone, the opinion should be that he is not, never will be, and has never been good enough to play for this club, of course, some people won't be happy unless we have a team full of Fellaini's "working hard" and "doing a job" with a "warrior's attitude"

The guy has 0 technique and has virtually contributed nothing to this club since he's been here besides his considerable height, which has helped him to score 22 goals in 177 appearances for us because of the negative managers we've had, it should come as no surprise that as soon as a more progressive attack minded manager has come in they clocked onto Fellaini's game immediately and he's barely featured or been in the squad, apparently this doesn't twig for most people though.

So 7 times in 5 and a half seasons, 1.3 times a season which like I said is rarely effective and wouldn’t be missed. He played a part in the Juve game, the Mata goal really changed it but is glossed over. He came on against Liverpool, had a 30 percent passing accuracy and hit a steward with a shot. Can’t really quantify either of those type of games but he doesn’t regularly score or create goals, his assist record will be even worse than his goals.

There’s no straw man you said he has proven he is effective time and time again and that simply isnt true. It’s based on an odd game here and there, if we were talking 2-3 seasons at the club you might have a point but this is his sixth.

I have maintained from the start he is rarely effective that’s all.

Fellaini doesn’t fit us or our style. Never has done.

But let’s not pretend we didn’t see him play out of his skin for Everton at times as a battling cm, not defensive mid, with the ability and allowance to get in to the box.

If we are selling him because we do not want to use him then it is a different story. It does not mean that he has not contributed to the success of United in the past few years. For sure he was one of the most important factors in us beating Ajax in the EL Final. Also the win against Juve was a lot due to him. He played well when used in defence too early in the season.
I am sure that as some others have said he will be useful to where ever he goes. He will create problems against any team. As for him to able to play good football, he plays regularly for Belgium and they have Hazard and KDB in their team too. Fellaini is an important part of that team that won 3rd place in the WC.

I said at least 7 goals. You might want to consider context. #10 on the all time list in the PL has 13, and every single one on that list was a striker. 13. You seem to be wildly overestimating the amount of goals players score from the bench. What subs can do is change a game, add another dimension. That's what Fellaini can do. Thats not to say there isn't other ways of doing it, or ways that might suit us better, but it's undeniable he can change games as a sub.

Here's another stat for you: Under Jose when drawing and we bring Fellaini on as a sub, we went on to win over half of those games, which, comparatively, is a massive impact.

So you're still refusing to acknowledge a player can effect the game unless he scores or assists? What's the point of bringing anyone on who isn't a striker then. What's the point of even bringing on subs?

Played a part? They completely changed their set up to deal with him. He entirely changed the direction and momentum of the game. Even our second goal came from a flap from Szczęsny when trying to deal with a high ball to Fellaini - whilst he had three defenders marking him. No assist or goal though, so doesn't count?

Of course theres a strawman. It's literally there in your previous posts. You're attributed a position and an opinion to me when I've categorically stated the opposite because it suits your stance. You've defaulted to argue with an extremity that simply isn't there, even going as far as to say I've said we should keep him and that we must have a player of his type. Even though I've literally stated to the contrary.

He's proven to be effective from the bench. If you insist on only consider stats then I suggest looking at them. In comparison to other players, they are very favourable.

I’ll be sad to see him go

Had a soft spot for him since all the day tripping cnuts booed him when he got brought on in the Valencia friendly at OT in 2014 (Van Gaal’s first game) and went on to score the winner

He’s had a couple of bad moments but on the whole he is a warrior who’s worked his arse off for every manager he’s played under

At what exactly?

Because its not scoring off the bench not when we're chasing games anyway. Coming on as a late sub in games we're losing or drawing he has 2 goals and one assist in 5.5 years. Both of those goals came in the last 8-9 months and one of them lead to nothing as we lost the penalty shoot-out anyway. So his goals as a late impact sub have changed one game for us.

Yes he is a nuisance and a hand full for defenders so are lots of players at all levels of the game but how many times has his nuisance factor actually lead to something if he's not scoring or assisting?

League is bread and butter and the fact is he scored 1 league goal in 2018. We also play terrible football everytime he graces the field whether we start hoofing it to him or he himself slows down play with his lack of ability on the ball. Needs moving ASAP but we will find it hard without offering to subsidize wages unfortunately. A parting gift by Mourinho.

How am I possibly able to quantify that? You're asking me to prove something that no one can prove. I provided plenty of stats in the post you responded to about his effectiveness, that show statistically he changes the course of the game. If we go by those stats, then Fellaini had no impact when brought on against Juve, right?

In total under Jose, we have scored 25 goals after Fellaini’s introduction in the 42 appearances he has made off the bench, with Fellaini himself netting five of them, and have made a net gain of 13 points as a result. What's more, he has been brought on 11 times under Mourinho with United drawing and they have gone on to win six of those games, making Fellaini odds-on to have a game-winning influence.

Is he amazing? No. Does he suit our style of play? No. Can he be upgraded? Yes. But can he influence games off the bench? Absolutely.

To be fair mate in your last post you said it was proven thats he's effective form the bench, now you're saying it can't be proven. Fair enough it was probably just a turn of phrase in your first post, i'm not trying to be a dick.

But i'm not sure those stats prove he alone changed those games, so just because he was on the pitch the game changed because of him?

Which other players came on in the same games?

How many times did those other players come on in the same games?

I don't think it's hat black and white mate. He does change games sometimes, but very rarely. Not nearly as much as his reputation on here amongst some would suggest though.

I did, and in that same post I provided stats that support it. I’ve added more in my next post.

I posted stats to support it, and more of in the follow up post. I thought you wanted me to delve further.

You know I can't provide evidence to that effect, and if I could, I certainly wouldn't spend the time doing it. I've already posted far more than I wanted on a player I don't really care about.

They aren't definitive or exhaustive, but it tips it in his favour.

As a person he seems like a decent bloke but as a player we can and should do better.
I can understand people's views regarding how Fellaini could still be a influential figure for the team but for us to finally move forward its probably best that the option of playing hoofball with him,no fault of his own,is detriment to how Ole supposedly see's his United side progressing throughout this season and likely for the new management.

Also the lack of going long,if Fellaini were to depart,should put more emphasis on the current team to be more creatively savy and not focus solely on the quick,lazy fix of lumping it forward to Fellaini.

It makes me angry that finally the most obvious problems are being resolved in the team and people here have some Stockholm syndrome or something.

Not at all. If Fellaini's style does not suit the manager then he should be moved on. The issue is that some of you have are talking about an alternate history. He has contributed to some of the success we have had. Without him I doubt we could have by passed the Ajax midfield and they would have played through us and we most probably would not have won the EL Final.
He was important in us defeating Juve too. They were so scared of him when that cross came every defender including the keeper concentrated on Fellaini and they scored an own goal. Many a times he has created problems in the opposing penalty box and that created the space for others.
I have no issues in him leaving us but at least be realistic and give him credit for what he has done here. When used properly he is very effective. It is the stupidity of some managers that they do not know how to use him properly.

United fans who love this guy really lowered their standards over the years. Fergie would've never signed this guy

Well wrote, sir.

No mate trust me i've taken the time to read all the stats you posted, i just don't think they really tell us much. We would need to know way more variables like as i said who else came on in those matches we ended up winning, were other players moved around to different positions, did we switch formations in those games etc etc. You can't just attribute everything positive that happens in games after Fellaini comes on to Fellaini.

As an example you say he came on in 11 games we were drawing and we ended up winning 6 of them in your opinion primarily because of Fellaini. So was he primarily at fault for us not winning the other 5, or are only positive outcomes attributed to Fellaini's introduction?

The only real stats that can't be argued one way or another that tell us about his effectiveness as an impact sub are his goals and assists. And in that department he is severely lacking as a means to rescue games. Especially as in many of the games we were chasing where he was brought on the majority of our play was directed towards him.

Theres a good chance that based on his limited appearances so far he doesn't suit the current managers style. But the current manager is also only an interim manager, so we have no idea if he has the authority to sell Fellaini on.

Well we disagree there. I’m not contributing all of it to Fellaini, I’m stating his substitution has contributed toward it. If you’re going to question the validity of my stats, then I’ve like to see some statistical evidence that suggests an alternative. You’ve said he rarely changes games. Based on what? For at this time I’ve given plenty of stats to strengthen my position, if you’re going to challenge it, then you need to give some of your own. As of right now the stats favour what I’ve said, as does the constant support of several managers for club and country over the years, as well as the general consensus of fans and in the media that Fellaini is an effective substitute.

No they aren’t. The overall result after he’s been brought on gives far more information than the amount of goals or (the extremely subjective) assists he has. Otherwise, you’ll need to take the stance that any player who isn’t a goal scorer can’t be stated to impact a game as a sub. Simply put, the stats are weighted in his favour as of right now.

Ok fair enough mate, i've no doubt he contributed towards some of those results. But how influential he was is up for debate, and i've yet to see someone make a good case to prove he is very influential in regularly changing games.

I'm not questioning the validity of your stats, i'm not suggesting you've made them up or anything. I just don't see how they really tell us anything about how influential one player is in isolation without many other variables. Stats and information can be interpreted many different ways by different people. Those numbers in my opinion don't really tell us much one way or another. As i said by the same logic someone could say Fellaini's introduction contributed to us not winning 5 those 11 games depending on their viewpoint.

That would be true for most attackers, but Fellaini is almost a unique situation. He's regularly been brought on and put up front and more often than not all our attacking play was directed towards him. Not all attackers are put in that situation.

If he's being used as a target man which as an impact sub he more often than not has been. Then goals and assists are the best way to measure his contribution, yes he's a nuisance and a handful for defenders. But unless someone goes over 5+ years of highlights and catalogues when that has lead to anything, then we can't really now how beneficial that nuisance factor has been in changing games.

I'm sorry mate but to only have 2 goals and 1 one assist coming on late in games we're chasing in 5 and a half years doesn't point to a guy who is an effective game changer in my opinion. People have been saying he's a great plan B for years, and yet he only scored his first goal at the end of last season as a late sub in a game we were chasing that actually rescued a game.

The stats the important ones anyway aren't weighted in his favour. He can change games yes but so can any good player, he's not the amazing plan B some think he is.

I'll leave it there as we'll end up going around in circles, we don't agree mate but i respect that you just see it differently.

I can't see anyone on this thread that's saying they love him as a player, most are simply stating that he's a player that's happy to stay on the bench and come on late in games if all else fails. Nobody is saying he should be starting games, so not sure where this lowering of standards is coming from. Currently we have Mctominay, Pereira and Fred as other options off the bench, all of which aren't setting the world alight. If Fellaini comes on and makes more of an impact, why dismiss his effectiveness?

@stevoc aye agreed. Good chat!

Yeah. The man who signed Djemba x2 and Bebe and Prunier. huh. At least Fellaini has more honours than most of the England International team in a 3rd place in the WC.

I don't think Fellaini is a Woodward favorite. If Mourinho hadn't insisted on a new deal for him, I believe Ed would have happily shipped him out in the summer. Furthermore I don't think those contract shenanigans he pulled have endeared him to Ed as well.

Plus he's not exactly young. Reckon if Ole doesn't want him, he will be sold.

What has the England national team got to do with anything?

And David May has more honours than most of the current United squad, Fellaini included. But thats also irrelevant to this discussion though.

Ferguson wouldn't have signed Fellaini for the record we all know this.

You could be right, it's getting someone to take him on the wages he's currently on though. Thats the problem, there were no takers last summer when he was out of contract. So that will be more difficult now that i assume the club will be looking a fee for him on top of the wage package.

The fact that he is not wanted by any of the top clubs ( even as a plan B. Chelsea could do with one) when there are rumors about selling is a good enough indicator and reason to sell him.

On a lighter note, he still reminds me of Moyes and when he leaves, I will feel the ghost of "we have to aspire to be like City" would leave.

Yes Fergie had his share of poor signings but his biggest flops were minnows who were not expected to jump into the starting 11. Prunier was only at United on a trial basis and Djemba-Djemba was signed for peanuts and was looked at as one for the future. Fergie's worst big money signing was Hargreaves and that was only because of his injury problems. Veron is perhaps considered a flop but he was a superior player to Fellaini who did well in Europe, and Kleberson wasn't a marquee signing. I couldn't care less about the English NT, what are you bringing them up for?

I’ll probably get a bit of stick for this but I didn’t mind Fellaini at all. He took a lot of flack when the team was at its lowest ebb in years. I know he doesn’t fit into this United team and I wish him all the best wherever he goes.

Agreed, the guy is a warrior who.has had to constantly prove himself worthy of being at united under different managers even though they have all rated him and eventually given him their vote of confidence. Some even in the face of jeers from the OT support who made their mind up not to get behind him and boo him after a penalty he conceded( it was a game against Everton I believe ) I still recall the gratitude he showed Mou after a few games when he chose to trust him and he went on to score a winner and immediately ran to him. He was, like someone already mentioned, a part of - perhaps until we got to see Oleball - one of our most impressive runs post fergie under LVG with those wins against City, spurs and that juanfield game. I stil believe to.play lukaku target man role he is a much better option than rom himself and has a lot more technical ability and skill than our 75mn pound man. He doesn't give the ball away easily and actually has a reliable first touch. For all the hate he undeservedly gets, again like someone mentioned he has been a much better and more useful player than flavor of the minute names whom we signed like Memphis, Sanchez, Bastian, Schneiderlin, adm, falcao, etc.

I 100% agree with this statement. the guy's heart and courage can't be questioned. I really like him as a squad player because of this. He has the never say die, never quit, fight attitude that a Manchester United player should have and because of that I really respect him. I respect the way he has gone about his business as a "niche" player at a HUGE club where most fans don't rate him. Saying that I am also one of the fans that don't rate him. He is too big and slow, he is also limited in passing range and speed of execution to work in a midfield that plays the way that not only I like, but clearly what Ole likes as well. If we keep him, I wont hate on him he is a red, and if we offload then I wish him luck and hope there are no hard feelings because the guy is a fighter and has provided more then a few great moments for us supporters.

Injured just before he was about to be shipped out (again)

Fool me once...

Sounds like Ole is fully aware what Felli can bring in to the table. Good.