Martial/Rashford - Can they make the next step?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Eddy_JukeZ, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. Dec 23, 2017
    #1

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    This is not a thread to criticize them.

    They've both been much more productive and influential this season. They can still be inconsistent, but it's an improvement from last season.

    I know of all the complaints regarding Mourinho's system not truly elevating them to their peak performance potentially.

    I will admit that I rate Martial higher than Rashford, but that's besides the point.

    This is a thread where I'm curious what the cafe thinks regarding their next step. Basically, they become fairly consistent 'world class' attacker that would make it in most of our rivals' teams in the Prem and Europe.

    Can they(or either of them) make that step?

    I am not trying to kneejerk, though I probably picked a bad time for the thread.

    But what say the cafe? Will either make the next step up?
  2. Dec 23, 2017
    #2

    Acquire Me Full Member

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    They will.
  3. Dec 23, 2017
    #3

    Bwuk Full Member

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    Not in the current step up.

    Both are striker who aren't going to get the chance to play upfront.
  4. Dec 23, 2017
    #4

    Hed Zitin Banned

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    They haven't improved one jot since they debut for us.
  5. Dec 23, 2017
    #5

    Gbenger New Member

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    I just hope they'll be with us when it happens, if it ever happens. We have suffered too much already due to their inconsistency, and reaping the rewards if they become world class would only be fair later on.
  6. Dec 23, 2017
    #6

    An Irish Red Full Member

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    I think Martial certainly can as he has the level of technical ability that you need to reach that level. I don't think Rashford has that sort of talent however.
  7. Dec 23, 2017
    #7

    minoo-utd Full Member

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    Martial yes, Rashford noo.
  8. Dec 23, 2017
    #8

    Eyepopper Lowering the tone since 2006

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    I think Martial is progressing but Rashford is having a tough season, he seems to have stalled and his confidence seems at a low ebb.

    Both still have plenty of time on their hands though.
  9. Dec 23, 2017
    #9

    Whatsername Full Member

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    I think Martial has a chance but Rashford I'm not so sure.
  10. Dec 23, 2017
    #10

    van Nistelrooy Full Member

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    People go on about Rashford playing as a striker, yet he messes up the majority of one-on-ones and struggles to hit the target a lot.
  11. Dec 23, 2017
    #11

    AkaAkuma& Banned

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    Sadly United bought the wrong young forward from Monaco and Rashford is a Danny Wellback Clone. So no, they cannot make the next step.
  12. Dec 23, 2017
    #12

    Judas Open to offers

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    and this is a prime example why avoiding this place after a disappointing result is the logical thing to do. Go to bed, all of you.
  13. Dec 23, 2017
    #13

    Dr. StrangeHate New Member

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    In a well oiled machine they will be as good as jesus and sane even now.
  14. Dec 23, 2017
    #14

    Gbenger New Member

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    Rashford is already far better than Welbeck ever was for us. Feck off.
  15. Dec 23, 2017
    #15

    Macern SeARcHeS iMagEs oF fO0tbAlLeRs bAllSaCkS

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    I don’t think Martial will. Simply due to the fact that he has arguably regressed during his 2,5 years at Man Utd. And I think he has a problem with his attitude - a lack of desire to reach the top level.

    Rashford might make it, but I’m not sure. He needs to develop a lot during the next couple of seasons.
  16. Dec 23, 2017
    #16

    Hed Zitin Banned

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    feck you it's true.
  17. Dec 23, 2017
    #17

    Skills Snitch

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    If neither make it, we've fecked up big time and Mourinho's tenure will arguably be more damaging for the clubs future than either of Van Gaal or Moyes'.
  18. Dec 23, 2017
    #18

    An Irish Red Full Member

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    Martial is on a par with those two talent wise but they're much more gifted than Rashford is. Sterling is also.
  19. Dec 23, 2017
    #19

    joedirt87 Full Member

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    He's better, but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities between the two in their complete lack of consistency in the final third. I think he needs to play as a striker if he's going to keep taking steps up. Martial less so.
  20. Dec 23, 2017
    #20

    JohnnyKills Full Member

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    Completely agree.
  21. Dec 23, 2017
    #21

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    Yeah they'll be fine long term. Rashford having a rough season as Martial had last year, both are very young, both are irrespective of any inconsistency still very productive. System doesn't always give them the best platform, same with reliance on them and injuries happening to everyone else, but they'll be okay. The least of our problems is those 2.

    Only thing I worry about is where they'll develop. Think both are best as part of a front 2, Martial the deeper striker, Rashford a poacher. Martial probably can be as good as a wide forward in a 433 where he's higher up, while Rashford is a poacher pure and simple. Lukaku is the issue as Rashford can't play with him IMO, but is at his best around Martial. So it's up to Rashford to prove that he can develop into a better player long term. Martial should be fine as he's the best we have in that second striker role or as a left winger/wide forward.
  22. Dec 23, 2017
    #22

    Damien Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin) Staff

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    Yeah.

    I think they're capable of it - and I've seen fans of other clubs (mostly Spurs when they were linked with a bid) want to sign Martial.. just after a good start to the season they've both slowed down a bit, and Rashford in particular hasn't taken the competition aspect well at all in recent weeks.

    Was only really this year that Sterling has made that next step and he's one year older than Martial and three years older than Rashford.

    Rooney's actually spoke a bit of sense on this subject: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/man-utd-Rashford-Martial-Rooney-14052885

  23. Dec 23, 2017
    #23

    Skills Snitch

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    "Sometimes, early on in my career I was working too hard tracking back and Alex Ferguson sat me down.

    "It does affect when you're in the opponents' box. You're a bit leggy. Alex Ferguson told me not to do so much work and be ready for when we get chances.

    "I feel with Rashford it's maybe a bit of the same. You see him going back into the full-back areas.

    "It's great he's got that enthusiasm but, to get the best out of him going forward, he maybe needs to let the defenders and the midfielders do it."

    Ouch.
  24. Dec 23, 2017
    #24

    sunama Baghdad Bob

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    Indeed.
    I would definitely not be playing him as a lone striker.
  25. Dec 23, 2017
    #25

    Pexbo has never watched Star Wars

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    I don't want to be one of those body language experts, but I've noticed a distinct lack of chemistry between Lukaku and Rashford.
  26. Dec 23, 2017
    #26

    The White Pele Full Member

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    Days like today will push them on
  27. Dec 23, 2017
    #27

    BluesJr Full Member

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    Martial yes, Rashford not so sure.
  28. Dec 23, 2017
    #28

    Backrow Singer Full Member

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    Martial has the ability and presence to go to the next level. I just want to see him demand the ball and boost his acceleration. Technically though he's got it.

    Rashford doesn't have half of that ability IMO. He's going to have to somehow turn himself into an absolute ruthless goal machine over the next 3/4/5 years. He wastes so many chances though, if he gets the shot away at all. He was an absolute disgrace today and his performance the other night wasn't too far behind. Decision making is non existent.
  29. Dec 23, 2017
    #29

    BusbyMalone Full Member

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    TBH, i still don't think either of them are wingers. I know their stats may be quite impressive this year from that position, but they're both good, talented players so you would expect them to do something regardless of whether they're playing out wide or not.

    But to truly flourish i still see them as forwards. That may sound absurd saying that after tonights game where they both squandered some great opportunities, but i do generally think that it's true.

    Whether they're going to get the chance to play in those positions is another question entirely.
  30. Dec 23, 2017
    #30

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

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    People keep repeating that Martial (and also Rashford) is a striker who can't get a game through the middle. Personally I think Martial is at his best receiving the ball wide left and making those inward runs at defenders. He is unpredictable and a great dribbler, and he is a constant threat at tying fullbacks in knots. I think he is better at that than he is at finishing and positioning himself in the box. For the time being, whilst dribbling at defenders and cutting in are his best traits, it makes sense for him to play wide left.

    He may well improve his positioning and finishing in the near future, but right now Lukaku is better at those things. I have no issues seeing Martial develop as a left sided forward/winger/whatever.

    I don't really know about Rashford. At least with Martial, he's fairly consistent in the way that he threatens defenders, but seems to just be lacking that little bit extra. Rashford seems to either have an excellent game or an absolute stinker.
  31. Dec 23, 2017
    #31

    Bojan11 Full Member

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    Martial yes. Rashford no.

    People saying Rashford is good as Sane or Sterling are crazy. Sane and Sterling can dribble for fun whilst Rashford simply is a touch and go merchant. He never has complete control of the ball.

    Also why should he play striker? He can’t hold the ball up. He can’t head the ball. He struggles to time his runs in behind. He definitely wouldn’t get in ahead of Lukaku for me. Oh and he can’t score chances when he has time to think.

    You could tell Rooney and Ronaldo would be special. At a early age they had the game it was more consistency. With Rashford he lacks a lot of technical ability to make it to the top hence why it was crazy him being compared to Mbappe.
  32. Dec 23, 2017
    #32

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

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    I think that the first thing we should do is avoid constantly comparing the two and mentioning both their names in the same sentence. IMO, comparing them constantly gives off the impression that they are both of equal ability, which I think is not the case. For me, Martial has definitely the better technical skill-set, whereas Rashford's general technical ability tends to let him down quite regularly.

    In terms of their respective ceilings, Martial's, I feel, is definitely higher. I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is a potential Ballon D'Or winner, but he has unquestionable top-level talent. At his hypothetical peak in the near future, I could see him breaking into the Top 10 of best players across the world, although not into Ballon D'Or territory. For this to happen though, I feel that he needs to play as the ST, which will be very problematic as long as Lukaku is at United. That's not to say Lukaku is a bad player; it's just that Martial has the higher potential out of the two as a striker due to his more refined technical skill-set. Also, playing Martial centrally would make him much less predictable in that he would have license to roam deep and wide, and to form over-loads in other areas of the pitch. His recent misses against Bournemouth and Leicester aside, his finishing tends to be highly clinical; playing him central would also likely lead to Martial getting more scoring chances than he does as a LF. In his first month at United, he showed himself to be very capable of receiving the ball to feet with his back to goal, which is obviously another important trait of a CF.

    As for making the next step, Martial has the ability to do so. However, I feel there is more to him making the step up than just being played out of position (Although he's far from an egregious LF). His speed of play is definitely slower than it was in his first season at United; as for why, I feel it is a direct result of his lack of confidence. IIRC, I read somewhere on here that before the Leicester match, he had 6 goals on the season out of 11 shots. 11 shots!!! Taking only 11 shots on the season is shot-shy territory; the only reason why Martial should be shot-shy is if he is suffering from a lack of confidence. , My guess is that this lack of confidence is strongly correlated with José's presence as manager; therefore, I find it hard to envisage Martial making the step-up as long as José is manager (Irrespective of whether José is the right man or the wrong man for United in the long-term).

    Rashford on the other hand does not have the ability to crack the Top 10 of best players in the world. For United to get the best out of Rashford, I feel that he has to be played as a striker in a counter-attacking set-up. Rashford's greatest strengths are his movement, pace, and runs in behind the defence; his biggest weaknesses are his lack of dribbling ability and lack of technical control on the ball. Asking Rashford to play as a LF is negating him simply because there is less scope in wide areas to make runs in behind and to cause problems for central defenders with his movement than there would be centrally. Furthermore, asking Rashford to play in a possession-oriented set-up is counter-productive, seeing as he lacks the technical refinement to be significantly involved in either the build-up or in intricate passing. As a ST in a counter-attacking set-up, Rashford would be at his most effective; his ability to find holes between the FBs and the CBs would severely hurt the opposition defence. Therefore, in terms of stepping up, we have to be cognisant of Rashford's strengths and weaknesses, rather than consistently forcing him to play out of position.
  33. Dec 23, 2017
    #33

    Gbenger New Member

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    If there weren't such excellent posters like you, I would've stopped frequenting this site a long time ago. You absolutely nailed it. Best comprehensive post I've seen in a while.
  34. Dec 23, 2017
    #34

    NoLogo Full Member

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    You can never really know that. The thing is though that people also need to have more patience. Imo even a player like Hazard was mainly showing talent before he really got into his best after 3-4 seasons of consistent PL football and I would still claim that he is an early developer. It's very well possible that we will only see the best of Rashford and/or Martial around the age of 25 +-2 years. The question is if we are willing to bet on that talent and keep playing them or if we let them go in favor of bringing in finished players that are a couple of years older.
  35. Dec 23, 2017
    #35

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

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    We'll see. Both have lost the form they were displaying earlier in the season. They're young and will learn a lot over the next few years. Martial is obviously more talented so I think he's got a great chance. I'm not very sure with Rashford - his mentality will define him.
  36. Dec 23, 2017
    #36

    Fully Fledged Full Member

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    I'll say it again in another thread. They will both make it if we have better coaches to guide their development.
  37. Dec 23, 2017
    #37

    marktan Full Member Scouse Lover

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    Martial as a RW maybe if he learns to make runs in behind and be a little more unpredictable (i.e. not cutting in 99% of the time).

    Rashford I feel is still playing like a striker being forced on the wing. I'd much rather he get games up top as a respite for Lukaku than being forced on the wing, because he just doesn't have the dribbling ability for it. He has great movement, and a great shot on him, which imo suits the striker role more.

    Neither really fill me with great confidence on the wing at this point in time though.
  38. Dec 23, 2017
    #38

    J-Stander Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

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    Rashford can’t. One trick pony.
  39. Dec 23, 2017
    #39

    Garethw scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW

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    They can both make it here. But I’m not sure they will under Mourinho.

    If Mourinho stays for another 18 months tops, then they will make it here. If he signs another contract and stays beyond the 3 year point, I think they will both be binned off for more established players.
  40. Dec 24, 2017
    #40

    kitress New Member

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    Martial, maybe.

    Rashford is a definite no. He doesn't have the football intelligence that's needed of worldclass players. And unfortunately there is no cure for this kind of weakness. If United has great ambitions as a club, he can never be depended on.