Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Amar__, Apr 10, 2019.
No one says Lingard should be starting and no one claims he is above the players he plays with like you are doing with Martial. This is also a thread about Martial.
Martial is not above this squad at all. Im done with this now. What good is it arguing with someone who thinks its the other players holding him back when it’s clear when you watch him play that it’s his own faults that hold him back.
Actually, quite a few have in fact. There's more than a few that have posted he isn't delivering so sell him.
Folks have repeatedly said he's under performing, he's not. I've spent page after page saying this, providing evidence to the contrary. I've admitted he lacks movement... However, even though he lacks movement within his game, his returns are still brilliant.
If he added movement / runs in behind the back line, he would definitely be our 25 goal a season player we need. As yet he hasn't.
I'm not sure why we are questioning his input at all myself when there are far greater problems than Martial in the squad. No RB worthy of mention, No RW, Matic on his last legs...
Martial performs... lets create a thread saying he isn't good enough?
The numbers say otherwise, I asked you to prove to me he isn't. You can't.
Best you could provide is he doesn't run enough, its a fault which I've admitted countless times... but even when we factor that in he's still performing better than the rest. Isn't that him therefore performing above the rest of the squad?
Not sure what point there is discussing it with you either, don't seem to understand that sentence above.
And he is....... Basically giving us double what Lingard is.
Lingard has played for us 164 time and scored 29 and set up 18 goals. Total of 47 goals involved
Martial has played 170 games scoring 48 and setting up 29. Total 77 goals involved.
He won FIFA world young player of the year in his debut season. Has scored against Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal twice each, City and Spurs a goal a piece. Scored in FA Cup Semi Finals.
The work rate is the issue for me, added that and he will most likely be a 25 goal a season type player.
He isn’t performing better than the rest though is he .
He performs better than the rest until he doesn’t, and then it’s because it’s the other players holding him back .
What a load of bollocks .
noun: enigma; plural noun: enigmas
a person or thing that is mysterious or difficult to understand.
"Madeleine was still an enigma to him"
synonyms: mystery, puzzle, riddle, conundrum, paradox, problem, unsolved problem, question, question mark, quandary, a closed book; More
That is Martial basically ^
People saying he should be sold is not the same as saying he should be first out the door. If people would stop getting so defensive over him they'd not be inventing arguments that aren't there.
He's had almost 4 years to add movement, what makes you think he's going to add it now? He's shown no drive to improve. Let me guess...Mourinho.
We are questioning him because he's a Manchester United player, Manchester United have not been good enough and we've seen him be a part of that. He's not a special snowflake that's above criticism, he's part of the problem and has done nothing to earn special treatment. He can't hide behind other players or former managers.
He doesn't perform enough and his bottom level is crap.
There's no point in discussing this. Some people just pick their favourite player and he can do no wrong.
Well he actually is. I've asked 3 times for you to show me where he isn't and you haven't.
He's our most consistent goal scorer post Ferguson, whilst being a bit part player for 2 of his 3 full season's here.
Only bollicks being posted is from yourself, you've added nothing constructive to the chat at all.
Herrera won player of the year!!! He is being held back by Martial!!! Ander is so much better than the rest of the team!!!
His work rate is the issue for all of us. The difference is that myself and others think that he should have upped that part of his game long before now. And you saying "if he aads that to his game...". No shit, but the point is he wont. At least not going by what hes showed us in the almost four years hes been here. He doesnt have to be messi, he doesnt have to score 25 goals a season, he just needs to up his effort and hed get a chance from me at least, but as I said. Ive seen nothing that says hes going to change his shitty attitude to doing the work.
Nonsense! Lingard has a cool knickname and a clothing line. Clearly its because he doesnt have wordclass all around him that hes shit. If he did, hed start the revolution against rice puddings with bits of fruit in them. Get timeshares for dogs and cats. Expose Melania as the real puppet master. Make brexit a euphemism for bolting from a girl with a fish issue. And have jumping the tie fighter replace jumping the shark.
When he wins an award on the same level as Martial, come back to me
As it currently stands, Martial had his contract renewed, the other is on his way and surplus to requirements it seems cause he's little more than another badge kisser.
You're both making similar points so I'll address it in the one...
It's not defensive, its just standard of today's fickle expecting instant results and without adding some constructive context to the argument.
As I've said before, his main manager to date is Jose. A manager who really didn't like him clearly, he misused him and requested he change his game completely and become more defensive minded. Martial had a run of 29 starts in his first season, the best Jose could afford him in 2 years was a run of 5 games on the bounce. Now to put that into context...
Lukaku played a total of 4,071 minutes of football last season in 2017/18
Martial played a total of 4,854 minutes of football over the 2016/17 season...AND... 2017/18 season.
That's a difference of 783 minutes or just slightly over 8 games.
That right there is the definition of phasing a player out.
But apparently to all you lot on here that isn't a valid excuse, means feck all cause he deserved it apparently is what I'm told, when his performance data says otherwise.
Jose is now gone, he's started 9 games for Ole, scored 4 and set up 2. Hasn't been the most energetic by any means but injuries will do that too you.
He's 23 and creeping toward an age where its make or break, hence I say give him next season in an attacking side after Ole / Mike have have done some transfers and see where he is.
Almost four years is expecting instant results? O..........K..........
Half of which was as a bit part player, No point me asking you are you really that dumb cause well you've just proved to me you are.
I literally mentioned in my post that I am not questioning his numbers at all, but his workrate and consistency. There's no point in quoting his numbers again. It's not something that I don't know already.
His consistency is fine then surely if you've seen his numbers?
As we've all agreed on the work rate could improve to bring him up to that next level, if its added great. If its not then he'll still be a good / very good player for us in the years ahead I've no doubt.
He isn't a concern for me at all anyway, far bigger problems across the squad.
Ask yourself the question, which other top elite European sides would he walk straight into?
I dont really get why fans defend him so much, he is a good player with some great sparks of skills here and there . He has no more excuses , he has been under 3 different managers , 2 girlfriends, 3 tinder dates, 1 daughter and plenty of time to prove his worth. I think he is falling short of what we were expecting of him and wasn't a good idea that renewal .
Quite disappointing so far, but that is also because of how good he was when he came here and how hit the ground running.
I don’t thing many expected that, so he’s a bit of a victim of the high standards he has shown when he just arrived.
He needs to step up and quick, because as it is, we need someone better and more consistent for LW of we want to pit a serious title challenge next season.
I don’t think Martial needs to be the finished product right now but the thing that really worries is that he seems to not have progressed at all since he joined. Like he isn’t any better than he was as a 19 years old which is insane!
I honestly don’t believe this guy puts in enough effort on or off the pitch as I can’t imagine any other young player who has stagnated like he has. He maybe needs a change or environment or something because nothing seems to change with him.
In Martials defence though I think he’d do really well in a counter attacking team or a team which didn’t clog the area he plays in. He loves to play in space but we are so lopsided to the left wing that the whole opposition is covering that side and he gets crowded out. He flourished under LVGs strict positioning system which afforded him tons of space to run into
He deserves another couple of seasons, but time marches on and I'm struggling to see what he's improved about his game in the last 4/5(?!?) years.
Some are blaming him while some want to blame previous management.
One question probably is more relevant. What is the expectation from Martial by say May 2020, regardless of him playing No 9 or LW?
Fully agree with Keef posts. Martial isn't and hasn't been an issue over his time at United. In fact looking at what he has produced, and the circumstances under which he did it, it's nothing less than impressive. Of course we all want him to add to his game and be great because he's got the talent, but acting as if he's been given the right environment and instead disappointed is far from reality. Let's give the guy a season under a stable attacking manager and see how he gets on.
Blaming Jose whatever happen of course.
Was our best player before xmas.
Relax, dude! I agree with you but we don't need the name calling.
A lot of opinions will change if he scores the winning goal tomorrow in Spain. I personally think he isn't very good and don't think he will end up good. Probably just a decent player with the occasional moment of brilliance. The Martial FC cult here is also very odd. I would straight swap him with Spurs for Son or Eriksen if the offer is on the table in the summer
Should be played centrally or put on the bench. Buy a new left winger and right winger in the summer. I believe in he can become our main striker. If by chance he is still not showimg enough then i guess either club would sell or he himself would choose to leave as he wants to be a first teamer.
I was a Jose supporter on here in lots of cases, I even supported him when I shouldn't have. However it's hard for me to understand how United fans fail to acknowledge that Mourinho failed in his handling of 20 year old Martial. Same way he mishandled Shaw our best LB by a mile.
Regarding this "how good Martial is meant to be", he's meant to be better by people who overrate him. He's an excellent attacker in a team full of turmoil and no leaders. He's been groomed by captains like Valencia and Young. And I feel Rashford suffers from the same reasons. We lack true winners and leaders someone who will put him in his place when he fecks up.
How did you came out with that he's getting a free pass? I think he get as much stick as anyone.
Such an underrated comment
Longer term he'll be a No9, whether here or elsewhere. I think his output stats wise is excellent given a) his age and b) Mourinho nipped his playing time in the bud
He's nowhere near the level some people think he is but I personally think he's our most exciting attacking player, I also think he should start ahead of Rashford and Lukaku in the No9 role here. Time will tell if he can become a genuinely top player but with Rashford, I feel we end up just playing long balls through to him because he's quick and with Lukaku, he's just not good enough IMO
Well I started this thread after the first leg after he wasn't even a starter(which wasn't my initial argument), and tonight he proved why he didn't start last game. I reckon his covered distance is around the same as de Gea's or Ter Stegen's. He probably made same number of runs as them too.
Shameful attitude, you watch his lack of interest before Messi's pass for Coutinho's goal and you'll realise he isn't really too much interested in winning things.
Do we get running stats for the CL?
He plays as if he couldn't give a shit at times.
Him and Pogba got to go. Simple fact they don’t want it. I’ve been there biggest fans too.
Yep, he's shameful to watch.
He's not a shit footballer, but he is a shit person. Get rid
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