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Mass Shooting in Christchurch, NZ Mosque

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Carolina Red, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Mar 21, 2019

    dannyrhinos89 OMG socks and sandals lol!

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    it’s vandalism but it’s a victimless crime as nobody was present and nobody was injured eitherway it certainly doesn’t warrant counter terrorism police and a heavy police presence to be in attendance. Police should be fine to deal with it and if they make an arrest fine.

    All I want is some consistency from the police, where was the police presence during the recent Muslim protests of kids being taught about LGBT rights in school (Which coincidently happened in the same city so maybe this was a revenge attack)

    “The current curriculum is an attack on Islam”
    “Any attempt to get Muslim children to affirm homosexuality in a positive way will be met with reisistance”

    You can’t say the window smasher has a hate driven agenda then completely ignore the hate driven agenda towards LGBT communities from Muslims. Why was no arrests made in this situation? It does get largely ignored as it doesn’t fit the current narrative.
  2. Mar 21, 2019

    Kaos Full Member

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    You’re generalising that all Muslims have a hate agenda towards people of LGBT leaning. And while the sentiments of those parents were indeed disgraceful, it’s a little odd trying to draw false equivalence between parents having dated views over how to educate their kids and a bigoted madman with a sledgehammer attacking a place of worship. I’m not exactly sure what you’d expect the police to do in the former situation - arrest folk for silly religious views?
  3. Mar 21, 2019

    Cait Sith Full Member

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    If you take television and mainstream media out of the equation, 90 % of people who now know about the incident would never have taken note, even if some people write about it on social media or some blogs. When it's not front page news, 90 % of the people don't get it or don't care enough, even if they somehow "heard about it" somewhere.

    I don't think constructing a law that prohibits the exhibition of individual crimes has much to do with propaganda or controlling the Internet. The press already can't report on certain things, you just extend that.
  4. Mar 21, 2019

    MadMike Full Member

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    You're talking nonsense.

    This was an event that happened in NZ that was reported by world-wide mainstream and social media which we don't control by our laws. The news spread like wildfire and was on twitter, reddit, facebook and being reported by the biggest news stations world wide. If you think that simply gagging our own mainstream media, without putting massive controls over the wider internet North Korea style, would result in >90% of the people not hearing about it.... you're living in the stone age and you need to wake up.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  5. Mar 21, 2019

    dannyrhinos89 OMG socks and sandals lol!

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    Mate It’s not generalising it’s strictly forbidden in Islam. You’ll do well to find a Muslim that accepts trans/homosexuality anywhere in the world. They really look down on it and anyone that has that lifestyle and they do spread hate. Like I said it just gets swept under the carpet though.

    The second quote I put should be enough to make an arrest. I saw a video circulating and the lead protester said on the megaphone “any attempt to persuade Muslim children homosexuality is acceptable will be met with resistance”
    Remember this is aimed towards a public school of all places and they aren’t trying to persuade anyone they’re simply teaching kids about different cultures.

    Considering Islam’s background recently I’m pretty sure that sentence could certainly be deemed threatening behaviour and grounds for an arrest.
  6. Mar 21, 2019

    Cait Sith Full Member

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    I don't know anyone in real life who actually knows Reddit, nor anyone who uses Twitter. And just 1 guy who uses Facebook for political news. And I'm a "Millennial". Also I'm living in a country where more than 1/5 of the population is 65+ years old. Only when something is on the evening news, everyone knows about it. I'm not in the stone age, you simply overestimate Social Media. Redditors all over the world won't travel to NZ to report if mainstream media doesn't pick up on it first and the officials don't even give any kind of information what happened, how many died etc. It would never get the traction it does if "normal" media wouldn't report. It's the mainstream media which makes it a hot topic and talks about the "whys" and "hows" and "what should we do" even weeks after that gives it the attention and nothing good comes out of it ever.
  7. Mar 21, 2019

    mu4c_20le Full Member

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    I have plenty of muslim friends who are cool with LGBT. I hope you are not getting your impressions of muslims just from internet videos alone.
  8. Mar 21, 2019

    Zlatan 7 Full Member

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    I think the initial reporting of it should be carried out by the media. We can’t hide news.
    But then, who controls the media? Everything that is chosen to be shown is chosen by someone.

    After the initial report of there being an incident and reported deaths that should be it. Not weeks of mainstream front page news of the killers info, his plans. Just nip the story in the bud as soon as the initial info has been released.

    There seems to be far too much glamour (for want of a better word) and shock value to the media attitude towards this, sadly for sales, clicks and views, not much else.
  9. Mar 21, 2019

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority" Scout

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    LGBTQ+ are as likely as being target of a hate crime as Muslims or other minorities. Having parents proclaim that they won't stand for their children being taught that it is a normal aspect of life, definitely increases the risk of bigotry towards the LGBTQ+ being perpetuated further.

    Also I agree that this seems like an odd diversion by that poster to bring up this matter (being discussed in a different thread) on here.
  10. Mar 21, 2019

    MadMike Full Member

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    Why would a Redditor have to travel anywhere to report anything? All they have to do is post a link from a news site that is beyond the gagging control of your nation/parliament. Do you think all governments will agree to pass laws to gag their news outlets?

    I’ll leave you to your own devices, arguing seems to be quite the waste of time.
  11. Mar 21, 2019

    iluvoursolskjær Full Member

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    Find it odd that you're posting in a thread about a massacre of people in a mosque, responding to a post about further mosque attacks in the UK (which were obviously inspired by the former); with whataboutery.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  12. Mar 21, 2019

    MJJ Full Member

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    Classic Islamophobe
  13. Mar 21, 2019

    africanspur Full Member

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    Creating fear in a community is not a victimless crime. Attacking a community's gathering place and place of worship is not a victimless crime.

    I imagine there is a heavy police presence to reassure that same community and ensure it feels safe after someone literally livestreamed the slaughter of 50 Muslims in their place of worship as if he was playing a GTA game. May be something to do with that.

    So then there's a few things here, which need to be unpacked:

    -I think Islam's view on homosexuality (the religion) is incredibly problematic, as is the case with the abrahamic religions if you take things literally.
    -I think many Muslims' views on homosexuality are incredibly problematic.
    -To say it is all Muslims who think this way is a genuinely ridiculous statement to make and I'm sure you're aware saying all Muslims have that view, when there are about 1.2 billion of them, is just silly.
    -The overwhelming majority of Muslims in Western countries, even the ones who do not agree with homosexuality, go about their normal daily lives without lynching LGBT people or doing anything to them. They may not approve but they interact in a completely normal way, they work with them as colleagues, they serve them, buy from them, talk to them. Same as the overwhelming majority of oooh, I don't know, evangelicals in the USA.
    -I wholeheartedly disagree with the protests by those parents (and think its great that young kids are encouraged to think of LGBTQ as a normal part of society) but unless I've missed something, protesting in this country is not illegal, whereas vandalism and killing people is so not sure what the 3 things have to do with each other? Did those protestors do anything illegal?
    -Blaming the attack on those protests is dangerous. Trying to justify these attacks is dangerous. Talking about 'Islam's background' and these protests, in a thread about a mass shooting at a Mosque and then vandalism at mosques, is a very strange thing to do.
  14. Mar 21, 2019

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    I find the global praise over changing the gun laws a bit weird. They needed a massacre to realize that people shouldn't be allowed to carry assault rifles?

    Excuse me for not jumping up and down to shower them with praise.
  15. Mar 21, 2019

    Florida Man Cartoon expert and crap superhero

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    Well from an American perspective, it's certainly nice to see other countries make laws about it with no problem when it's near impossible to do it here.
  16. Mar 22, 2019

    calodo2003 Full Member

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    Can’t wait for the next Democratic president to use the NZ PM’s speech almost word for word (first 2:30 of it) when declaring a national emergency on their first day in office, beginning the process to ban assault weapons again.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics...&utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=TheSlatest
  17. Mar 22, 2019

    Carolina Red Moderator Staff

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    I second this.
  18. Mar 22, 2019

    VidaRed Full Member

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    I'm a muslim and one of my cousin brothers is gay, our entire family threw a wedding party for him and his partner. Before you say were non-religious muslims and live in the west, let me inform you most of my family consists of people who pray five times a day and we live in India.
  19. Mar 22, 2019

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority" Scout

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    Always a fallacy to use the best case scenario as some kind of evidence to prove a point. I am sure you will agree that your family is pretty much an outlier to wider Muslim community in India or as a matter of fact the overwhelming majority of Indian society. Anyone claiming that ALL Muslims have a problem with homosexuality is obviously wrong and probably has some other agenda but antecedotal evidence can not be used to brush over the need of reform with Islam and almost all other religions when it comes to accepting that their religious tenants are wrong about homosexuality being a sin of any kind.

    Even moderate religious people are wrong about the notion that even if you consider it a sin, not passing judgement or discriminating is job well done. That might work for a lot to navigate their social life in modern world whilst holding on to their religion but the very acceptance of something being a sin in eyes of whatever form of God that religion advocates will always lead to some extremists taking a sterner stance and fueling discriminatory atmosphere.
  20. Mar 23, 2019

    VidaRed Full Member

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    I only mentioned that because he said you won't find "a Muslim" anywhere in the world who accepted homosexuals. Nothing more.
  21. Mar 23, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    Struggling to know what's this and your other posts about homosexuality related to this thread. Honestly I find all things related to this subject absolutely tiresome.

    Focus on the thread and that massacre maybe ? Weird to twist this into yet "Islam is not civilized or modern enough" topic.
  22. Mar 24, 2019

    Dante Bang Average but can post Blindfolded for 15 secs

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    It literally is.
  23. Mar 24, 2019

    Nucks Cuckoo

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    He's not wrong, but he's not right either.

    I guess it's due to being north of the USA, which carried out a deliberate, systematic policy of displacement, genocide and a bunch of other things. For the majority of the Canadian time during its expansion to the Pacific, it never approached anything like the atrocities the southern neighbor did. Tribes south of the border often sought refuge in Canada at times.

    So he's right in that Canada wasn't nearly as bad as the US in how it treated the indigenous population. However, there were definitely episodes which were how do we put this diplomatically, not good. Perhaps the worst were the residential schools, where the country attempted to wipe out indigenous culture. Canada also had a sterilization law through about half of the 20th century, which not explicitly directed at indigenous people, was used against them, and during this period, I believe several thousand people of different ethnicities (probably a majority indigenous) were sterilized. However, I wouldn't put this on top of the residential schools. The sterilization program was horrendous, but it had limited reach compared to the residential school program.
  24. Mar 24, 2019

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    Do many Christians not say the same? Yet you will find LGBT Muslims and Christians which should tell you that your statement is a generalisation.
  25. Mar 25, 2019

    shamans Hoser

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    LGBTQ is not allowed in Islam but you're not allowed to force Islam on anyone anyway. The majority of muslims dont care if you're gay or getting married and what not in my experience.

    If anything Americans are so much more aggressive towards anything gay. Being called gay or hormo is the ultimate insult

    There are a billion muslims. Only a few super backward villages in Muslim world where gays are killed etc.

    I have family friends from Pakistan and their son lives openly gay there. Yeah an imam would say hes a sinner but no one forces anything on him
  26. Mar 25, 2019

    Irrational. Full Member

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    What the feck does this have to do with the NZ massacre?

    Create another thread for your thinly-veiled Islamophobic whataboutery rather than taking over a thread in which 50 innocent people were massacred.
  27. Mar 25, 2019

    Spoony The People's President

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    Bizarre innit. Well actually...
  28. Mar 26, 2019

    Mockney Not the only poster to be named Poster of the Year

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    [long resigned sigh]...


  29. Mar 26, 2019

    iluvoursolskjær Full Member

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    I despair..
  30. Mar 27, 2019

    Carolina Red Moderator Staff

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    [​IMG]
  31. Mar 27, 2019

    FlawlessThaw most 'know it all' poster

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    What a nutjob. Good response (thread) from Mehdi below:

  32. Mar 27, 2019

    berbatrick Full Member Scout

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    I indirectly knew a conspiracy nut back home. According to him every bombing in India was the result of "Mossad-CIA-ISI-RAW nexus".

    Amazingly, he claimed to have met and advised Khamenei on India-Iran relations.
  33. Mar 27, 2019

    RedTiger Full Member

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    What an absolute twat.
  34. Mar 27, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    I know a guy that thinks the pyramids were made by an ancient civilisation, more advanced than anything we have today and the pyramids are giant energy sources.
  35. Mar 27, 2019

    afrocentricity Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    I don't even think that's far fetched, apart from the bold bit. Dunno about that bit...
  36. Mar 27, 2019

    rotherham_red Full Member

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    I wish I could say that this is an isolated instance, but for people of that generation and background, it really isn't.

    Pretty much every Pakistani, Bengali, or Indian of that age believes in every bad thing being a conspiracy to defame either a) their country, or b) their religion. Perfect case in point being my parents who when something horrible happens back home (like a Terror attack) will say it's a RAW black ops attack to defame Pakistan, or worse (and I'm only half joking here) to ensure that international cricket never gets played there(!)

    Personally speaking; when these things are uttered, they are quietly ignored, or if I'm feeling particularly boisterous, I argue against them. This is basically akin to the slightly racist uncle at Sunday/Christmas dinner a lot of white people seem to come across.

    Unfortunately in this instance, the slightly racist uncle was someone in a position of influence, and instead of it being in the confines of his home, he blurted it out to the world's media.

    To sum up, he's an absolute dipshit of the highest order, and if he just spewed this nonsense in the privacy of his own home, there would not have been any issue because everyone around him would have put it down to him being of that age and background, but now that it's been beamed across the world, it'll no doubt serve to embolden the idiots across both sides of the political spectrum and provide ammunition to the likes of Murray, Nawaz, et al to say that Islam and Muslims at their core are intolerant and rabidly anti-semitic.
  37. Mar 27, 2019

    2mufc0 Full Member

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    Good post, agree with everything we just need to keep challenging it until it goes away.
  38. Mar 27, 2019

    Kaos Full Member

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    I find it (depressingly) amusing how certain Muslim groups use Mossad as their perpetual bogeyman.

    In the Syrian civil war all opposing sides accused the other of being in cahoots with them.
  39. Mar 27, 2019

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    Where do you live?

    The vast majority of Muslims I know have literally no issues with homosexuality.

    Food choices - widespread.
    Alcohol & drug vilification - frequent.

    It may not be something they’d like their son or daughter to ‘choose’. But I’ve never heard any Muslim friends have an issue with gay people.

    London/Auckland/Paris being my sample audience.
  40. Mar 27, 2019

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

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    Ha that's straight out of The Pyramid Code on Netflix. Highly recommend it for some barmy viewing.