Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Suedesi, Jan 24, 2019.
Is that what it was? Cheers. Here's me thinking he just had a better game on the night.
De Ligt was only 17 years old at that time, Sanchez was 3 years older. He was a much more consistent and dominant performer back then especially defensively, but I've never really doubted that De Ligt was the more talented of two.
I disagree completely. I don't think either was great, but from what I remember Sanchez was fairly poor on the ball that night and would give it back to us without much pressure. Neither was that great.
That is true but in the end of the day you are still Ajax a big well known club with a history of developing good players so say their is a talented Brazilian or a Martin odegaard or south American prospect you have the money to offer them an enticing deal along with the advantage of being able to grow them and give them first team football. Something clubs like Madrid Barca and the other giants simply can not and instead buy these young players for no reason to be honest other than stop them from going to other clubs in case they do become good.
A saw Messi and Naimar play a game a couple of years ago which they lost. Neither was that great.
What? I'm not talking about how good they are, I'm specifically talking about that one game. Don't take it personally. Please notice that "that night" was used in both my post and the post I quoted.
My biggest wish as an Ajax supporter is for next season to just buy Steven Bergwijn from PSV.
That'd make an excellent point. Normally impossible but I think for say 50 million they might not be able to refuse.
I don't know if this is you trying to be interesting, or you being fooled by your guy who is trying to be interesting. But either way it is complete nonsense.
He might go to PSG (I strongly doubt it but who knows) but it is in no way shape or form anywhere even remotely close to widely accepted.
Now my question to you as a rival supporter of PSV is Steven Bergwijn really that good ? how would you rate him ? I know PSV talented can be hit or miss and are a but overhyped. Zakaria labyad and Bakkali come to mind.
sometimes you get a young player who is ahead of their time and will become a top centre half - which is why so many clubs are after them and you have to break the bank to get them
We did it with Rio - let's do it for De Ligt
It's amazing how quickly popular opinion has changed on De Ligt, I remember about a year ago I was explaining how he was an absolute must-buy versus someone like Alderweireld and so many people on here dismissed the idea. De Ligt is about to be the De Gea/Messi of defending and will win the league with the team he joins.
Better than Depay was when he left if you ask me. Not that you did.
I would be surprised if Ajax would get him. Don't they, together with Feyenoord and three other clubs, now have a gentlemen's agreement not to get eachother's youth players. Which Bergwijn is not, but I would still be surprised if they touched him and make them even more hated in Eindhoven. The fans have their emotions, but the directors are in good standing.
I don't remember De Ligt doing anything of note that night, as would be expected from a young player in a big game. Sanchez looked a bit manic but he was at least involved, even if it was thundering into tackles to make up for his own positioning. Definitely a touch of Bailly (in one of his better games).
That said, I was very drunk.
I don't take it personally, I just find it funny that a game over 1.5 years ago where naive Bosz was owned by Mourinho seems to be your single reference to De Ligt for your expert opinion while he was not the problem (neither was Sanchez, they just were handed the problems coming through the failing midfield). Mourinho just identified what made them tick in order to destroy, put Fellaini on little man Schone and stuff, and that was it.
De Ligt is easily the bigger talent. He's also shown more and at a younger age. De Ligt has consistently been a one-man defence for Ajax since Sanchez left. 9/10 games he's one of our top 3 performers. De Jong has had spells of one or two months where he looks magical but still clearly not the final product. De Ligt on the other hand a lot of the time somehow looks like the complete, finished product despite having just turned 19
Juve can’t afford him (especially with Raiola involved) and also have Rugani coming up.
City have Stones and Laporte.
PSG have Kehrer, Marquinhos and Kimpembe.
Bayern have Süle, Pavard and likely Lucas Hernandez.
Real are going hard for Militao so you could see a Militao-Varane partnership there in the future. They also have to spend a shitload of money on their attack.
Spurs and Arsenal obviously can’t afford him.
If we’re in for him I can see only Barca, Chelsea and Liverpool competing with us. We would guarantee him starts straight away as well instead of telling him to wait for Pique and I’m not sure Barca can afford him now after De Jong and the wages they pay.
Do you really think that the fact that they have Stones and Laporte will stop City from buying him? I don't think so
Remember, Otamendi had a great season last season and then they bought Laporte and now he barely plays. They will do the same with De Ligt. They would just sell Mangala and / or Otamendi
What are you actually on about? That's not my sole reference for De Ligt, it's a comment about a single game where I thought he was better than Sanchez but neither were that great in that one game.
Would be nice to sign one of these generational wonderkids for a change.
Either way thanks for the reply and how so ? I remember Depay had a Stellar last season at PSV?
It’s not really amazing. People have 2 seasons’ worth of ability evidence vs. 1, of course a lot will change in a year.
I just hpoe we aren't so focused on Koulibaly that we aren't pursuing de Ligt as well.
De Ligt is exactly the player United miss out on. We missed out on him when he wasnt established. There was a quote from someone previously working at the club about how many reports we had on him. If a club like Barca or Madrid sign him for 100m he will play for 12 years at the top level minimum. That is a bargain. The same way Madrid got how many top years out of Ronaldo and sold him for a profit. Man City purchased Aguero for peanuts. Chelsea got Costa for nothing. The only high profile signing we have got right is Pogba. 100% Woodward is dithering right now looking at the DOF and manager situation. He will not spend in January. And when it comes to the summer because of a lack of clarity we wont even know who our targets are and in what position. The real virus needs to be eradicated
A few differences:
1- Otamendi was never the passer that Pep wanted there and he was always the experienced “right now” option. They always needed someone younger and better on the ball in that position and they knew that.
2- We are now in the “Pep or money” era of City spending. They are very aware of their reputation and take any opportunity to brief the media that they won’t get into bidding wars. FFP also seems to be taming their aggressiveness in the market for now.
3- They have been way more focused on finding a DM and even on a priority position such as that, they’ve been struggling to find the right player at the right price for them.
It seriously wouldn’t make sense given the circumstances.
Derek Langley, former head of youth recruitment. Recommended De Ligt, De Jong and Upamecano to the club. 7 months later he was sacked.
I haven’t watch Ajax game this season (should have watch the one against Bayern), but tell me one player with age who is or was on the same level as De Ligt right now. You made him sounds like he’s already a matured centre back with good leadership skills at the back.
2 and 3 are good points.
On 1 though, didn’t Otamendi have by far the most passes in the PL last season (yes, he did)
Well, both those players kinda left PSV due to attitude problems before they ever really broke through there. Nobody thought either was ready to take any sort of step upwards. Neither compares to Bergwijn. How good Bergwijn can be we'll have to see but I think he's a very impressive talent and think he would do great at Ajax. It's not realistic though but it would be fun.
Depay scored more goals, but his overal play never impressed me honestly. Bergwijn is a much more complete player.
I remember thinking Memphis' goals in the Youtube compilations were all scored on the counters with plenty of space, which he wouldnt get in the Prem. Bergwijn seems more comfortable in these tight situations. Whats your observations on that?
Yeah I agree with this, Bergwijn is far more technical than Depay ever was.
All the top clubs wanted to sign those players, They were not secrets.
What's your point? No-one has said they're secrets?
The point he's trying to make is that players that are now being valued at £60 million plus could have been picked up relatively cheaply had we made a move for them a couple of years ago.
No-one has said they're hidden gems so don't see your point.
And he's correct. Recruitment has been awful. It regularly seems like we're the club chasing players that others have stolen a march on years ago. This club should try and be proactive in the transfer market for a change rather than reactive all the time.
Probably more a product of the team style of play rather than his quality as a passer.
I think Bergwijn and Locadio are currently the Kežman, Afonso Alves, Klaassen or even Depay type of players who are excellent for the Eredivisie, French or German league at best, but won't make it at say Everton. Good players, but just that extra bit of class, speed or psychical aspect missing which is needed to make it at the highest level.
De ligt and Ake would be great signings. We could play 3 at the back in De ligt, lindelof and Ake on the left, 3 good passers. Ake could also play left back, he's a very good header for his size. Lindelof could also turn play as a defensive midfielder instead of matic. I wonder would we get both for 100m to 110m.
The thing that made Memphis so effective in the Dutch league is the fact he was much stronger than the Dutch defenders. Couple that with his (for Dutch standards) good technique and goal scoring ability and you have a great Dutch league player. However, at the top competition the general level of opponents is much higher. Suddenly he wasnt stronger than defenders and his technique and other skills weren't good enough to compensate for that. I do have to say that it seems he's grown a lot in his role as a central attacker and might in the end still become a respectable player at the top level, but in the Dutch league, he never impressed me that much.
Bit harsh on Depay to put him between players like Alves and Klaassen honestly. Klaassen is in the same mold as the De Jong brothers. Above average at everything in de Eredivisie, below average everywhere else. Depay has far more tricks in his Arsenal than these guys.
As for Kezman, it just didn't click for him, but he could've been much better than he did.
I agree Depay is better than Klaassen and the others, but he still lacks that bit of speed and extra class to make it at a top PL club.
But, all the top clubs tried to sign them when they were 16. De Ligt chose to stay with Ajax, De Jong chose Ajax and Dayot chose Red Bull Salzburg.
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