Mbappe vs Rashford - Taking the L from Lukaku

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Mainoldo, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Feb 11, 2019 at 10:22

    Sayros Full Member

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    The only farce is this delusion that the Premier league is so much more difficult to score in than Ligue 1; there's plenty of players who have proved otherwise whether when they came into the league or faced those English teams in the CL. Mbappe would have no struggle matching those stats in the Premier league. Yes, I said it @Mainoldo
  2. Feb 11, 2019 at 11:17

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Rashford wouldn't replicate those stats in the French legaue since Mbappe is comfortably better and barring disastrous injuries and application, he'll remain so.

    We all love Rashford but Mbappe is on a different level.

    Here's hoping our man comes on top come Tuesday of course.
  3. Feb 11, 2019 at 11:37

    Trizy Full Member

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    Rashford would probably have similar stats considering how much better PSG are than everyone else. Stats aren't a fair way to compare the two. I do however think Mbappe is a better all round player.
  4. Feb 11, 2019 at 11:39

    11101 Full Member

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    Of course it is. Nobody is saying a 30 goal a season Ligue 1 striker is going to struggle to break double figures in England, but like for like it's clearly a much harder league. Almost all strikers who make the move find their goal tally dropping at least to begin with.

    Mbappe has hit his ceiling in France. It's time to move on if he wants to continue to progress his career. He's clearly a better player than Rashford right now but if he spends his whole career in France nobody will care.
  5. Feb 11, 2019 at 11:40

    Green_Red Full Member

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    Well, we'll get to see just how good he is tomorrow night.
  6. Feb 11, 2019 at 11:43

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    The balls entirely in his court given his age, though. The kid just turned 20, and when his PSG contract runs out he'll be 23. He could move to a club like Bayern on a 5 year deal, see it through completely, then go to Real for 5 years, see it through completely, and still only be 33 at the end of it :D I really can't wait to see how this lads career plays out.
  7. Feb 11, 2019 at 12:05

    Dolf Full Member

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    The sheiks will make him the best paid player in the world and he’ll stay at PSG for the rest of his career winning the french league 13 times and the CL only once.
    Mark my words.
    It says enough that he choose PSG after Monaco when he could have started for most top teams in Europe. He’s french and the easy choice is to become filthy rich in Paris.
  8. Feb 11, 2019 at 12:07

    Shark @NotShark

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    Rashford would definitely replicate those stats or at least get very close, the league is shite and PSG have 90% possession every game.
  9. Feb 11, 2019 at 12:22

    BBRBB Full Member

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    For starters he would have to get playtime to replicate those stats.

    Mbappé also has insane stats in CL and international games. How does Rashford compare?
  10. Feb 11, 2019 at 13:14

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    No chance.
  11. Feb 11, 2019 at 19:31

    Sayros Full Member

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    Well, first of all, there haven't been a ton of 30 goals/season Ligue 1 strikers, and they'd usually have similar or better stats in the other leagues they'd go to. England is not a much harder league, it's very easy to transition to that league, or the Spanish league for players of that caliber that played in France before. The difficulty of your league is a complete myth sustained only by the sum of money spent on players as some sort of indicator of difficulty. You're a rich league, not a tough one.

    I really don't think it would be any harder for Mbappe, because the only clubs that could afford him would most likely be City, he might even score more in England than France, it really wouldn't surprise me. Mbappe just turned 20, most players don't move until they're 21-22. There's no rush, and it's a bigger accomplishment for him to win the CL with his hometown's club than it would be to add another one to Madrid or Barcelona which is where he's most likely to go next. Everyone knows he's not going to spend his whole career in France, that's not even a remote possibility, but transitioning to English football is not this big challenge some of you'd like to think for players like Mbappe. He'll be in Spain within the next 2-3 years at the most, I just like that he didn't want to leave without trying to make history with his hometown first; that's more important to some in France than feeling a need to prove some doubters wrong because he hasn't done in X or Y league, nevermind he's shown in the CL and world cup already that he can be effective in any context.
  12. Feb 11, 2019 at 21:12

    11101 Full Member

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    Some reasonably high profile French strikers who have moved one way or the other in recent years:

    Giroud - goal tally halved
    Lacazette - goal tally halved
    Sanogo - in 5 years he didn't score a single goal in the PL
    Payet - stayed roughly the same but was never an outright striker
    Gouffran - less than half his Ligue 1 goal tally
    Gomis - consistently halved his goal tally

    And of course Ibrahimovic, who came to us after a successful spell at PSG and you guessed it, scored half the number of goals he did in France.
  13. Feb 11, 2019 at 21:49

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    Your point is generally correct (in that it's harder to score in the PL than the French league) but these statistics are fairly selective and kind of make it sound like a bigger gulf than it probably is.

    I'd say the central reason Ibrahimovic scored less at United was because he moved from a top PSG team who were pissing all over the league for fun to a fairly sub-standard and defensively-minded United one that finished 6th. Giroud, when he moved to Arsenal, had only really had one season where he managed to rack up a scoring tally that was more impressive than anything he mustered at Arsenal. The differences were fairly slight all things considered - noticeable enough to show a different, but to say his figures halved is to only take a single season into account. Which isn't necessarily the best way to look at it.
  14. Feb 11, 2019 at 21:57

    BBRBB Full Member

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    It's just wrong for Giroud and Lacazette, their stats in England per minute are even slightly better than in France. Sanogo was a nobody with a decent U20 WC and a few goals in L2. Zlatan was declining, had a bad patch of form then got injured.
  15. Feb 11, 2019 at 21:58

    0le Full Member

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    I don't watch Mbappe (except the world cup) so I don't know how good he is. I am just glad we have someone (Rashford) from the academy becoming an important first team player.
  16. Feb 11, 2019 at 22:24

    11101 Full Member

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    Well yes, these were just the last few French strikers to play in England. It's illustrating a point. I don't buy into the whole the Premier League is the best league the world has ever seen, but it's much better than Ligue 1, that's for sure.
  17. Feb 12, 2019 at 00:09

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

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    I love Rashford and think he can definitely become world class, but there's a difference between that, and Mbappe who I feel is of the all time elite level
  18. Feb 12, 2019 at 00:17

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Ligue 1 is objectively inferior to the Premier League (it's not different sport levels of inferior, but it is a lower level) and of course Mbappe's stats are massively inflated playing in a side which wins games 9-0. Seriously, watch some of the defending that PSG regularly come up against, I genuinely think some of the sides in that league just can't be arsed against them because they know what is going to happen. They just go through the motions, it's embarrassingly easy for PSG to win most of their matches.

    3 out of the 4 top scorers in the league are PSG players. Any top class attacker is going to score a stupid amount of goals playing for that club. Remember Ibra before he came to the Prem? 38 fecking league goals. Yeah he came and did well in England but holy shit how anybody could argue that Mbappe would score the exact same amount of goals playing for a PL club is beyond me.

    That said, Mbappe is just a better footballer than Rashford. It's obvious watching him that he's special and he was immense during the world cup, he's terrifying as feck when he's in full flow. I really don't think this is a case where you need to use stats, I can't seriously believe that anybody neutral or objective would call Rashford an equal or superior talent.
  19. Feb 12, 2019 at 00:23

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    'Goals per minute' is a monumentally stupid way to judge players.

    Players who regularly perform a substitute role will generally have very good goals/minutes ratios, because they're coming on late when their team are pushing for a goal and also against tired defences. Giroud was often utilised in this way, being brought on for the last 10-15 where Arsenal would simply throw balls in to the box for him. I believe players like Hernandez (super subs, basically) have had exceptional goal to minutes ratios in the past (better even than elite level strikers) but their records quickly became less impressive when they got more consistent starts.

    Lacazette/Giroud in France would have been the main/leading man for their team and played pretty much every minute they were available, so it is entirely unsurprising they would score more 'per minute' than for sides where they have less game time and play a sub role.
  20. Feb 12, 2019 at 00:38

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

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    The same could be said for Rashford and in fact what we're seeing now. Who knows how Mbappe would have done under Jose.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019 at 00:44
  21. Feb 12, 2019 at 00:43

    Cheesy Bread with dipping sauce Scout

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    Giroud was Arsenal's main striker for a significant portion of the time there. He wasn't exactly used that often as a late substitute.

    You're also being selective by solely looking at players who weren't necessarily starters but had good scoring records and then faded out. That's a player being in form, being rewarded for that form, and then not being able to sustain it. There are plenty who started out with a bit-part role but got more time on the pitch as they improved and then continued to improve.
  22. Feb 12, 2019 at 00:44

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

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    Their development is not linear and Mbappe is ahead but let's just see. I'm confident they will be regarded in the same bracket when we look back in 10 years time providing they both stay fit. I'm supremely confident in Rashford's ability. Once his descison making and finishing improves -- he'll be unbelievable.
  23. Feb 12, 2019 at 01:04

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    He went through periods of being the starter, but I also remember runs where Walcott/Welbeck were playing up top, or Sanchez was used as the striker. I don't remember a time when Giroud was Arsenal's undisputed leading striker so whilst he may not always have been the late substitute, he wasn't starting every single game like he would have been in France. Then by his final season he was definitely the substitute striker, with 18 of his 29 PL appearances being from the bench in his final season (he scored five).

    I don't think I was being selective, merely pointing out that just because Giroud/Lacazette have better goal to minute ratios in the PL, it doesn't mean they're finding it easier. I think Lacazette is a good striker but if he solidifies himself as a starter at Arsenal I wouldn't be at all surprised if his goal/minute ratio actually ended up worse.
  24. Feb 12, 2019 at 03:16

    billybee99 New Member

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    You're delusional or you're a wum. Take your pick.
  25. Feb 12, 2019 at 08:29

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Ronaldo is a goat but are we truly saying you can’t mention Thierry Henry in that bracket? Just think about it when your bumming off Mbappe. Who still has done NOTHING to warrant all this hype.
  26. Feb 12, 2019 at 08:33

    MuranoLover Full Member

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    Just a WC
  27. Feb 12, 2019 at 08:46

    11101 Full Member

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    Actually Giroud's goals per minute stats dropped significantly the first couple of seasons until he adapted to the PL, and Lacazette's are still below his last few seasons in France.
  28. Feb 12, 2019 at 09:07

    diarm Full Member

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    Just the two league titles with two different clubs, the U19 Euros, a World Cup, a French Cup, a French League Cup, a Golden Boy, a FifPro World XI, 4th Place at Balon D'Or, a World Cup Dream Team, a World Cup Best Young Player award, a French Player of the Year award and a UEFA Team of the Year all by the age of 20.

    I wish he'd pull his bloody finger out and start delivering to be honest.
  29. Feb 12, 2019 at 09:13

    Schneckerl Full Member

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    Seriously though how many player have accomplished more by his age? Pele, Brazilian Ronaldo...
  30. Feb 12, 2019 at 10:39

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    People still using that farm's league stats to prove a point. It's becomes even funnier when one doesn't necessarily need to use those stats to prove that Mbappe is better than Rashford.

    But league 1 is a joke and becomes an even bigger joke with respect to PSG. They have a team vastly superior to the rest of the league coupled with the league itself being a joke and any stats coming from that league should be dismissed completely.

    If I'm not mistaken, weren't Ibra and Cavani scoring goals at the same rate as Messi and Ronaldo? That right there is all one needs to know about Ligue 1.
  31. Feb 12, 2019 at 11:02

    HDRubens Banned

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    Lets not use the Ligue 1 , both played the exact same World cup games, Mbappe scored more & won France the world cup, they based their counter attacking game around him and his speed. No Mbappe no wolrd cup. Simple

    Now lets use the champions league: 23 games 14 goals and 6 assists, thats being involved directly in 20 goals in 23 games.

    World cup winner, better world cup stats and scary CL stats .end of story.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2019 at 11:27
  32. Feb 12, 2019 at 11:44

    Revan Assumptionman

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    Alternately, you can just watch them play and realize that this shouldn't even be a debate. Mbappe is so much better.
  33. Feb 12, 2019 at 11:52

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Indeed. This isn't a case where stats are needed, Mbappe is just a better footballer and potentially will be the worlds best when he hits his prime. Rashford might end up one of the best strikers in the world but he's not Ballon d'or material.
  34. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:22

    Tommy bigot with fetish for footballers getting fingered

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    Aye. Not tryna crap on a player because he plays for United or whatever, but right now, it really isn't even deserving of a discussion. However, when/if United manage to get a result out of PSG tonight (which I think they will) & Rashford scores, there will be dozens of posts in this thread saying it's close, Rashford is better, etc, :D Typical footy fans.
  35. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:30

    VanGaalEra Full Member

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    Lolz, this thread my god. You simply can't downplay Mbappe.
  36. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:30

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    Yet we want to say he’s as good as R9? Abit of a joke with them stats to be honest.

    On a serious note I say he’s done nothing because with his ‘major title’s’ he’s never been the focal point so I don’t see how he’s considered this great when we are still talking about potential.
  37. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:32

    Karel Podolsky New Member

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    If I remember it correctly Ligue 1 pre Ibra and Cavani usually had the lowest goals scored by the top scorers amongst the top 7Leagues. European top scorers usually from Eredivisie, or Portuguese League, and off course from La Liga.

    *I don't remember the name of Portuguese League.
  38. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:32

    Mainoldo Full Member

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    How do you know he’s not ballon d’or material?
  39. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:34

    Revan Assumptionman

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    He scored 26 goals (15 in the league) when Monaco won the title. Falcao, who was their main striker scored only 4 goals more (30) that season. Very important for Monaco.

    He was excellent and the main weapon in France's counter attacking play, scoring a bunch of goals including a goal in the final. He was extremely important for them.

    For PSG, he scored a bunch of goals, but I would say that Neymar and Cavani were more important. He is arguably their best player this season though.
  40. Feb 12, 2019 at 12:40

    Karel Podolsky New Member

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    According to Caf, Mike Smalling was the best defender in EPL (in van Gaal Era).