Messi v Ronaldo

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Rado_N, Jan 20, 2015.

?

Messi or Ronaldo

Poll closed Jun 16, 2018.
  1. Messi

    50.0%
  2. Ronaldo

    50.0%
  1. Jan 12, 2018

    Ishdalar Full Member

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    Saddest part is I actually like Ronaldo'd heading technique, how he marks the time and stays in the air, is a thing of beauty, but people will think I'm just underrating that skill because I think Messi is good at that too.

    For example, if Ibra could head the ball like Ronaldo or Ramos, he'd be an even biggest threat in the area, or Yerry Mina, he's known for scoring a lot, he's good in the air and definitely a threat, but the way he attacks the ball... while effective, it's no as beautiful as Cristiano
  2. Jan 12, 2018

    Kinsella New Member

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    For me the answer to this is a definite Yes. I think most people have an almost intuitive sense of what a 'Greatest of all Time' contending player should be like and the starting point is that he must be exceptional with the ball at his feet. Messi fulfils this criteria - he's an exceptional dribbler; an exceptional passer; an exceptional goalscorer (I'd include off the ball movement under goalscoring); his vision and creativity is exceptional and so on so forth. Ronaldo is an exceptional goalscorer but he isn't exceptional in those other facets. That's not to say he isn't good at them, it's just that he isn't exceptional at them. Also, the idea that other things like heading, of which Ronaldo is the best I've seen, are equivalent to the above is laughable. I can see a case for leadership attributes elevating Ronaldo somewhat however.

    Another thing I've noticed is that those in this thread who use phrases like 'style of play' and 'aesthetically pleasing' in a kind of dismissive way do so almost as if a player has consciously chosen to play a particular way. This is putting the cart before the horse. A player's 'style of play' emanates from his natural talent and to a lesser extent his physical/athletic ability. The reason Ronaldo doesn't play like Messi does isn't because he has chosen not to, it's because he can't. He doesn't have the ability to do so.

    Finally, I'd disagree that people are underrating Ronaldo as most put him in the top 10. That's hardly an insult now is it?

    Gerd Muller was mentioned to demonstrate that the phrase "Lies, damned lies and statistics" applies heavily to this thread; in other words he was used to highlight the flaw of the continued use of statistics to bolster an argument. He wasn't being compared to Ronaldo as an overall player. Muller was also a phenomenal goalscorer but why isn't he mentioned alongside the other 'GOAT' players, given said scoring record and trophies won? Because outside of goalscoring he wasn't exceptional at anything.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  3. Jan 12, 2018

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    No, I didn't, someone else did.....
  4. Jan 12, 2018

    Archi New Member

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    You laugh but Nani 3 goals in the Euros as did Nani. They both scored important goals. This goal for Quaresma was as much Nani's assist as it was Ronaldo's. And also in the final Nani captained Portugal after Ronaldo went off and put in a good and responsible if not spectacular display. Also the goal from Quaresma in the knockouts against Croatia was as much Nani's assist as Ronaldo's, as he is the one who played the defense splitting pass.

    The main reason why you are laughing at my comment is probably because one is called Ronaldo and the other Nani.
  5. Jan 13, 2018

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    This weird myth being propelled on here that Portugal's Euro win had little to do with Ronaldo makes me laugh more than anyone's name. Nani was good but not as good as Ronaldo during the Euro's. Without Ronaldo they simply wouldn't have reached the final.

    Suppose Nani was as good as Ronaldo during the Euros, why is that relevant? Argentine players were also as good as Messi during the W.C and Copa (competitions that they lost). No one brings that up.

    The Messi vs Ronaldo on one side, how can someone not agree Ronaldo has a clear edge over Messi internationally. Refusing to acknowledge that makes no sense at all to me.
  6. Jan 13, 2018

    pregra New Member

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    Messi’s Copa America in both 15 and 16 was much better performances than CR’s Euro 2016. But I guess that most people here didn’t watch a single minute of those two CA’s, they only go on forever about Messi’s miss in the penalty shootout...
  7. Jan 13, 2018

    pregra New Member

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    In the WC the whole defense (and Romero) was good as a unit but no one really stood out. Masche had some brilliant last ditch tackles vs the Netherlands in the semis... Offensively it was all Messi, who as usual had to drop extremely deep to even get on the ball.

    As for the two Copa’s, Messi was Argentinas best player in every single game he played by a mile.
  8. Jan 13, 2018

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    You are genuinely saying it was all Messi when he didn't have a single goal from open play past the group stages?

    As for Copa Ameria, Messi was the reason they lost in the end :lol:
  9. Jan 13, 2018

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    It's all well and good looking merely at number of assists but it's clear to anyone watching the actual football that Messi's quality of passing, vision, playmaking and overall creativity/influence in the buildup is on an entirely different level. In fact, it is several levels above.

    Look at this clip. Obviously not all of them should have been assists and every player misses chances, but Messi's weight of pass and vision and ability to carry an attack is phenomenal. That's why he's so different from every other forward. He's somehow managed to achieve mastery in not only goalscoring, but dribbling, vision, passing, playmaking etc as well. Playstation football.
  10. Jan 13, 2018

    Ishdalar Full Member

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    And by the way you talk it could look that any striker in Argentina was in hot form past the group stage.

    They scored two goals, Messi assists one vs Switzerland


    And then he does the "build up" of the other vs Belgium, which is basically a deflection and Higuain getting lucky once in his life


    Or his semifinals game, "he didn't score, so he did nothing".


    Argentina has been nothing but Messi on attack for years now, if we were to talk seriously, we could argue if it's normal, or even "healthy" for their performance as a team that when Messi has the ball, the other 10 guys on the team freeze like he just stopped time and no one can do anything because Messi has the ball, personally I think that's Argentina biggest problem in the Messi era, once the 10 picks the ball, the rest are mere passengers of the game, maybe it's Messi the one that wants that, maybe their coaches don't know what else to do, or they really don't want to expose themselves giving command on the pitch to any other player, but as long as he runs the show alone, with help from 1 or 2 players on a good day, they probably won't win a international title unless they're really lucky.

    For the Copa America comment, it's like with Baggio, everyone blamed him for failing a penalty when he wasn't the only one that missed it, and without him Italy wouldn't even go past the R16 vs Nigeria. Even Maradona missed a penalty in a WC for Argentina, but for him it wasn't the end of the world, because his rivals were even worse.

    That's how you get Luis Suarez to score 59 goals in a season, you put him between Messi and Neymar.

    Last Sunday vs Levante for example

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Must be nice for the other Barcelona players to have 9 players not defending them :lol:
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  11. Jan 13, 2018

    Revan Assumptionman

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    He is nowhere as good as Xavi was on that central midfield position.
  12. Jan 13, 2018

    Arruda Love is in the air, everywhere I look around

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    It's not Portugal fans, it's Sporting fans, and the majority of them, unlike United fans of whom only a subset thinks that. They hold on to him in a very special way.

    And it's a bit like arguing with a mother that their kid isn't beautiful. It's an emotional argument above all.
  13. Jan 13, 2018

    Moby Dick

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    We really need to figure out a way to get Cal? and FCBarca together in a room with loads of weapons and cameras.
  14. Jan 13, 2018

    Pocho Gayer than Marcosdeto (according to Marcos, who sh

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    Again, Messi is the best player ever, Ronaldo is top ten, not bad for a goal scorer.
  15. Jan 13, 2018

    Vialli_92 Full Member

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    If anyone says Ronaldo is better than Messi that is when I don't listen to a person when it comes to opinions about football

    For anyone to say Ronaldo is better is either a fan boy or doesn't watch Messi play there is no other explanation
  16. Jan 13, 2018

    Archi New Member

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    I'm not saying that Portugal's win had nothing to do with Ronaldo. He did have a good tournament (not an astounding one), and played a massive part in getting his team to the final. Where I have a problem is when people say, well Ronaldo won the Euros, Messi never won an international tournament. That doesn't make sense to me. As far as I can see, both players got their teams to the finals (with help from their teammates). Then in the final, Ronaldo's team won the final, whereas Messi and his team lost the finals. So both achievements to me are similar, getting their teams to the final.

    In what other way (apart from this winning the Euros argument) does Ronaldo have a clear edge over Messi internationally?
  17. Jan 13, 2018

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    I'm guessing you don't listen to Rio Ferdinand then. Good choice.

    Argue all you want. Ronaldo has achieved more when it matters and will be remembered as the bigger player
  18. Jan 13, 2018

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    Dude how can you say apart from winning the euros? That is the biggest thing and look you can conjure up all sorts of arguments about who went to the final to which I will say Portugal has a much weaker team than Argentinas to which you'll say Argentina bottled it for them and so on.

    When focussing on achievements you focus on facts. Fact is Ronaldo has won his continental international competition while Messi bottled it in the final.

    People label Ronaldo fanbois as bad but it is so difficult for Messi fans to digest the fact that Ronaldo has achieved more internatonal
    Football
  19. Jan 13, 2018

    Bole Top Full Member

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    you can convince yourself all you want, but not even today's Portugese and Madrid fans think Ronaldo is better than Messi.

    Messi is and will always be better player, and for vast majority of people he will always be part of the Pele - Maradona - Messi GOAT trinity. Ronaldo won't and nothing will change that :)
  20. Jan 13, 2018

    JustFootballFan Thinks Balotelli & Pogba look the same

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    No wonder Ronaldo is currently playing like a depressed little puppy. Messi makes €100M per season (including signing fees and bonuses) on his new deal.
  21. Jan 13, 2018

    shamans 1 set of sheets, optimistic about chances of sex

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    Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
    You can believe nothing will change that but there's a world cup coming up. This would likely be Messis last international competition. If he fails to win with the argentime team he has had for a decade, then I'm sorry to say he will never be discussed alongside Pele and Maradona.
  22. Jan 13, 2018

    altodevil86 Full Member

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    That's bollocks.
  23. Jan 13, 2018

    charlton66 Full Member

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    Messi is having the better season this year, but isn't it about time? Ronaldo has won 4 of the last 5 ballon d'ors and you can say what you like about who votes in those things, the majority I would opine know more about the game than people on a chat board.

    ...and just for the record I think they are both brilliant and deserve to be mentioned in the conversation for best of all time.
  24. Jan 13, 2018

    Archi New Member

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    So you think that a final win in which Ronaldo did not win gives him a clear edge? Because that is literally the only difference in their international careers. I reckon that history will also remember that Ronaldo did not play in that final.

    Had Messi gone off injured early in the WC final, and in the dying minutes of extra time Palacio scored the winner for Argentina, would that have given taken away Ronaldo's edge international football for you?
  25. Jan 13, 2018

    adexkola Arsenal supporter Verified Moaner City Lover

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    Did you use this argument when Russell Westbrook won the MVP?
  26. Jan 13, 2018

    RepardReece New Member

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    Honestly its all a matter of opinion. But for me Messi is the better of the two. He has the bigger influence in games, and is the bigger team player. If Messi was as greedy as Ronaldo, his goals tally would be unimaginable. He gifts opportunities to his teammates, you don't see Ronaldo doing that often, and still maintains such an outstanding goalscoring record. If Ronaldo was as selfless as Messi, he would have a lot less goals. This is why I believe Messi is a lot better than Ronaldo, his play style provides a lot more goals for the team all round but still manages to score practically a goal a game himself.

    For me if Real Madrid didn't win the title and champions league, Ronaldo would not have won the Ballon D'or, I still think Messi should've got it as its an INDIVIDUAL title, the trophies a team won should not affect the result. Messi had more goals and more assists, and although that's not all that matters, I believe he also delivered better all round performances throughout the last season. Messi is on course to get the 6th Ballon D'or this season though, he's most definitely having a better season so far.
  27. Jan 13, 2018

    charlton66 Full Member

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    I didn't agree with it, but I've got to admit a lot of knowledgeable folk obviously thought he deserved it.
  28. Jan 13, 2018

    AndyJ1985 Full Member Verified Moaner

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    Awards aren't always handed out by knowledgeable folk.
  29. Jan 13, 2018

    charlton66 Full Member

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    The captains of FIFA's national teams, their managers and a media member from each country all had a vote. Not saying these guys are all football geniuses - that's why I said the "majority of voters" in my original post. However, most captains and managers of national teams in world football should at least have a good understanding of talent in the game.

    As for the basketball MVP, it's done by the media, so they could easily be all idiots. :D
  30. Jan 13, 2018

    gibers Full Member

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    The Ballon D'or is ovted by solely journalists...

    Anyways, it is patently obvious who the superiror player is.

    Comparing this version of CR to even his previous self is an embarrassment. This version is a box merchant that needs the team to score. Without service he almost has no impact on games.

    These awards are for the "player with the best year", not the "best player". Owen was never a better footballer than Zidane for example. Ronaldo wasn't better than Messi in his prime and he certainly isn't even close to him at this moment in time. HE can have better season but as footballers it is obvious who is superior if you both watch them.

    There is little difference between Ronaldo now and a Ruud VN type player. Only difference is that his name is Ronaldo and people super impose his past onto his future self and so his reputation increases the hype. FIFA games also contribute to his myht. How can he have 94 dribbling when he gets dispossessed a lot of the times and is not even in the top 30 best dribblers in LaLiga? How can he have 95 pace when he is getting outpaced by Juanfran?!

    Messi still outscores him and is better in every other facet of the game.
  31. Jan 13, 2018

    Givenchy Banned

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    :lol: sorry to break it to you but he’s already discussed alongside Pele and Maradona
  32. Jan 13, 2018

    Moby Dick

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    You don't seem like a bigot at all.
  33. Jan 13, 2018

    Moby Dick

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    They did.
  34. Jan 13, 2018

    charlton66 Full Member

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    Not true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_Ballon_d'Or

    Go to voting - 3rd paragraph.
  35. Jan 13, 2018

    IFC 1905 Full Member

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    Lol
  36. Jan 13, 2018

    Vialli_92 Full Member

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    Well the Balon d'or is personal voting

    Ronaldo no doubt about it had a more impressive year than Messi there is no denying that but the better overall player was Messi

    Balon d'or has shown to be a popularity contest and not very accurate to determining the best player as if that was the case Messi would have only lost out on it a couple of times since he won the first time as he is no question on a completely different level to any player

    Ronaldo is not close to Messi's level as a player but he has made it out to be very close in people's eye's by scoring 50-60 goals a year and we are now seeing that is the new norm for top strikers as Kane just did it in the Premier League where people thought those numbers were not possible for a PL striker to reach those numbers

    Goal's are determining people's opinions more than anything where as before the stats came in Muller was never seen to be on Cruyf's or Maradonna's level despite outscoring them significantly
  37. Jan 13, 2018

    Vialli_92 Full Member

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    Well if a person can't see Messi is a far superior player to Ronaldo it would suggest a person's understanding of football is quite low and are easily influenced to the wrong opinion

    I would not be able to take that person seriously in a football related discussion
  38. Jan 13, 2018

    Moby Dick

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    I can say the same for anyone who considers Messi the greatest player ever. Still silly.

    People can have different opinions. Who knew.
  39. Jan 13, 2018

    Gareth williams New Member

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    Never you say? In a discussion where people are saying he's better than both. I think never is a lot longer period than you think
  40. Jan 13, 2018

    Vialli_92 Full Member

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    Well that is a tough debate seeing as different era's of football are hard to judge as the modern game is completely different to back then

    So far Messi is the best I have seen in my lifetime and I struggle to see a player being better than him in my lifetime anyway