Messi v Ronaldo

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Rado_N, Jan 20, 2015.

?

Messi or Ronaldo

This poll will close on Jun 22, 2018 at 17:26.
  1. Definitely Not Messi

  2. Ronaldo

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Apr 16, 2018 at 12:05

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    He was great and scored vs Lyon in 2010, he scored 2 and assisted 1 against Bayern in 2012, got his penalty saved but that happens, in 2013 you mentioned the cup final as a negative while he was very good and scored Madrid’s goal, he played a big part in Benzema’s goal in 2014 against Bayern, then got injured and he shouldn’t have even be playing football during that end of the season, he was also injured in 2016 and didn’t even play in the first leg against City.

    He doesn’t show up all the time because no player does and he’s also had his bad games in the big CL ties, he just does it less often than Messi.

    Nice username btw :lol:
  2. Apr 16, 2018 at 12:45

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Nope. That’s fake again... do you understand how heatmaps work or do you just believe anything deluded Barcelona fans post on Twitter?

    I’m pretty sure it’s the exact same one as last time too. Why do you keep posting fake heatmaps ffs? :lol:
  3. Apr 16, 2018 at 12:50

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Found this heat map from the euro's final:

    [​IMG]
  4. Apr 16, 2018 at 13:11

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Walking straight to the stands to lift the trophy :drool:

    Messi's heatmap in the World Cup final :cool:

    [​IMG]
  5. Apr 16, 2018 at 13:15

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    :lol:
  6. Apr 16, 2018 at 13:44

    MVBDX New Member

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    Do you know how heatmaps are generated? If those maps were to be true Cristiano must've covered 2km while Messi covering 200km since the reds are of the exact same density.
  7. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:08

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    The way you Messi fans go on about it, it's as if goalscoring is the easiest part of football. I wonder why no one ever did it as well as Cristiano if it was that easy.

    You say he rarely scores jaw dropping goals? How about that one against Juve in Turin? That probably ranks alongside the Van Basten volley and R Carlos freekick as "Best in its category". Unfortunately for Messi, "Best dribbled goal" will always be Maradona v England. ;)

    You're the one making the lazy arguments here with Messi's performances in 09/11/15, it's pretty clear that United/Real would not have got to the final in 08/14/16/17 without Ronaldo. But Barca could easily have got to the final in 09/11 without Messi. In fact, other than Ovebro, Iniesta was the key to the scandal of Stamford Bridge.

    Ronaldo played for the underwhelming Real Madrid side for one season, when he was injured quite often. :rolleyes:
  8. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:09

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Don't be absurd.



    This one alone is miles better.

    Or perhaps this kid from a little club from Manchester:

  9. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:10

    Apocalypse New Member

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    Ronaldo is flavour of the month right now purely because of that bicycle kick, I don't think anyone deep down genuinely thinks he's better than Messi, you only have to watch them to see just how superior a footballer Messi is.

    Still performing to a world class standard in a very average Barcelona squad. Ronaldo is much more reliant on the team behind him, hence how he was so far behind Messi up until 2015 when he became a fully fledged striker.
  10. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:11

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    There’s a study done not long ago comparing type of goals Ronaldo and Messi scores throughout their career. You will be surprised to learn that total no. of tap in goals Messi has scored is actually quite close to Ronaldo.

    IMO Ronaldo in 2017 CL run is the best ever individual performances/biggest impact I’ve ever saw in any competition, only 2nd to Maradona in 86 WC.

    The scary part is, Ronaldo in 2018 is likely going to match his 2017 run.
  11. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:14

    Reapersoul20 Can Anderson score? No.

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    1. That is absolute delusion. Huge amounts of people think Ronaldo is better.
    2. It wouldn't be discussed ad nauseam in every forum, message board, WhatsApp group and water-cooler in literally the entire fecking world if all you needed to do was "watch a match" to see who is the superior player. It's a much-debated topic because they are both great players.
    3. You gowl.
  12. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:15

    Apocalypse New Member

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    What?!??!!!
  13. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:15

    Pocho Gayer than Marcosdeto (according to Marcos, who sh

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    Strange since he was the best player on the pitch and the MVP of the WC.
  14. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:15

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Cruijff in 74 :drool:

    Seriously though, the top teams are so stacked nowadays the impact of any one player is much smaller. Just look at what happens to Real when Ramos misses a match. Maradona at Napoli, now that's a big impact.

    I'm not saying Ronaldo doesn't have a lot of impact, but most impact ever? I doubt it severely.
  15. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:18

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    The CL games has already been debated to death in this thread.

    But I have to reply to your biased view of the EURO.

    This wasn't any other Euro, the rules were changed well before the tournament and everyone played by the same rule. If no one else had the presence of mind to get themselves into the weaker half of the draw, that's just down to idiotic management. You can't blame Portugal for doing what they needed to qualify.

    IF you're going to blame him for missing a penalty against Bayern, how about some credit for scoring one against Poland? You know, unlikely you-know-who against Chile.
  16. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:20

    HorrorFan07 New Member

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    It's wide open for the Ballon d'Or now Barcelona got knocked out.

    If Real Madrid win then Ronaldo will win it again as he seems to be the master in being rubbish for most of the season and suddenly appearing at the end in key moments. Then people forget how bad he's been even though he's proven that's unacceptable his performances earlier on in the season.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2018 at 14:35
  17. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:20

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    The Van Basten one is quite similar, but what game was it?

    The Rooney one came off his shin.
  18. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:22

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Don't remember, he's scored countless of those goals in his ajax days. Ronaldo's goal was amazing, but it was nowhere near the best bicycle kick ever. Come on man :)
  19. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:24

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Oh wow, look at this one by Trevor Sinclair:

  20. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:24

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    Ronaldo's one was hit at a higher point and in a much bigger game.
  21. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:24

    RedRonaldo Full Member

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    At least I don’t recall watching anything better.

    I wasnt born when Cruyff was playing in 1974 though... and pity he didn’t win the tournament too.
  22. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:25

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    This doesn't even compare, it was a hit and hope.
  23. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:26

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Okay fine, Ronaldo's goal was the best bicycle kick in the history of the game. Have it your way, I'll just entertain myself by looking up other bicycle kicks.

    "a hit and hope"

    The lengths you go to. Don't worry I'm not saying Sinclair is better than Ronaldo mate :)
  24. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:31

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    Are you seriously suggesting Sinclair's was better? :houllier:

    The Van Basten one is very similar.
  25. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:36

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    No I never gave a judgement on the Sinclair one, I just posted it, cause it looked awesome, but you scrambled to discredit it anyway, that's why I was laughing.

    The Van Basten one goas into the top corner from the inside of the post and the cross is from much further away, making it far more difficult. Imho, that makes that one far more spectacular.

    The Rooney one was at much higher speed from a bit further out and it goes into the far corner, sure he shins it a bit, but it looked far more spectacular imho.

    It's just your sheer unwillingness to admit anything at all that gets me. I enjoy it, and somewhat admire it, but it just baffles me sometimes :)
  26. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:37

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    Aye, fecking Germans ;)

    If you go by things you watched, I didn't watch that one either to be fair, I'm not THAT old.
  27. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:47

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    I didn't scramble to discredit it, it was obvious it was a hit and hope. Did I make any such comment re the Van Basten one?

    How far the cross was made doesn't really matter, but the pace the cross was coming in at.

    Anyway. Obviously you won't give Ronaldo any credit ever, you probably think Messi's handball goal was better than Maradona's.
  28. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:48

    Zehner Full Member

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    Sorry, but I won't bother arguing you since in my opinion, you have a really superficial view on football. Honestly, I have never read one single in-depth argument in one of your posts. Your claims pro Ronaldo only consist of (superficial) statistics, goal records, belittlements of Messi and so on. The best thing was when you said crossing and heading were more important skills than dribbling. That says it all, really, and also explains why you favour Cristiano. I have the impression you do not understand football and what makes decisive plays at all. It is like talking to a fan of a different sport who ovesimplifies everything and thinks the one who scores the most is the best player. Just a very limited horizon.

    By the way, I think this Real Madrid side would still be the best team in the world if Ronaldo wasn't playing for them. They easily have the best midfield and defense. Especially the center midfield is what wins you titles in the modern game and Madrid's is untouchable, currently. Cristiano is just the icing on the cake like Messi was for Pep's Barcelona.
  29. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:50

    KirkDuyt Full Member

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    I think Ronaldo overtook Messi as the best player in the world. Actually stated that quite a few times over the last week or so :)
  30. Apr 16, 2018 at 14:59

    Zehner Full Member

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    I've seen a video analyses of the last season that replays most of the goals both scored. Counted how many goals they scored outside of the box, with more than two contacts, how many were initiated by themselves, how many were scored after beating one, two or three+ defenders and so on. Messi trumped Ronaldo in every category. This is not even a debate, honestly, the footage is there for anyone to see. Watch it and you realize that Messi's goals are much more difficult to score. Cristiano is all about consistency. A superb finisher but doesn't participate in the build up of chances by even comparable means.


    Can't agree. He scored brillantly but apart from that, I think his performances were quite dull. Even in the games against Bayern which are probably the most iconic of his last CL campaign I think he wasn't even that good. Yes, he scored, but he didn't participate apart from his goal. Again, it is his consistency. He scores and scores and scores but except for his goal opportunities, you barely notice him. Sorry, but I can't convince myself into believing that this was the most brillant individual run ever. I don't even think it was his best since he was much more active in your very own CL title 2008. Exemplarily, Messi's performance against Chelsea this year was more impressive for me since he turned those games around on his own. Ronaldo wasn't even the best Madrid player in the second leg against Munich, it was Marcelo, although Cristiano got all the attention. There is no denial that he has this stain of not participating outside of the box, especially in his later (and legacy defining) years.
  31. Apr 16, 2018 at 15:28

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Where has Madrid's untouchable midfield been then? When was the last time you actually saw them have a great game? Hell, I can't remember one time this season where they actually controlled a game from start to finish the way they did at times last season.

    I can only imagine your comments if Modric had been playing as well as Ronaldo and Ronaldo as well as Modric. One gets criticized by the thousands, the other is immune to criticism. The midfield controls games but attacking players are the most important players in football which is why they cost more money. Unless all football clubs are stupid and they should start spending more money on midfielders than they do on attackers.

    No Ronaldo and Madrid are nowhere near the best team in the world. I'm not even sure they're the best team in the world with Ronaldo in the team seeing as they can't defend to save their lives. You saying they have the best defense in the world has to be a joke.

    It's not even close.. how can anyone think he had a better CL campaign in 2008 than 2017? It's insanity. He scored 10 fecking goals in the last 5 games. TEN. All of them decisive with no penalties against arguably the 3 best defenses in the world. You'll most likely never see anything like it ever again. He could have done nothing else and it would have been better than 2008 but on top of it he was the best player in the Napoli tie without even scoring. He got Javi Martinez sent off in the first Bayern game and he was dangerous throughout outside of the goals he did score.








    There is a denial. There is a very clear denial by anyone who has a pair of functional eyes on their face. Those weird people will also say anyone who thinks Cristiano Ronaldo doesn't participate outside of the box at all are either insane or blatant liars. There will be videos of highlights and of his performances on youtube for people to see so this bullshit criticism will absolutely not be a stain on his legacy at all no matter how many times you repeat it. One thing is arguing Ronaldo doesn't do as much as Messi outside of the box, another is arguing he does absolutely nothing. The latter is just ridiculous.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 15:43
  32. Apr 16, 2018 at 15:28

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    :lol: I belittle Messi whilst calling him the 2nd greatest player ever, whilst the Messi brigade claims the likes of fat Ronaldo (@oneniltothearsenal , just for you), Rivaldo and Ronaldinho are better than Cristiano Ronaldo?! :lol:

    Is that why Real Madrid struggled some much in the first half of the season? Or why Ronaldo basically dragged them into the final the past 2 seasons in the CL?
  33. Apr 16, 2018 at 15:30

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    Great to know. :D
  34. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:16

    Daysleeper New Member

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    It’s from sports bible
  35. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:37

    matherto ask me about our 50% off sale!

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    How was he the best player on the pitch? He did nothing after the first 15 minutes.

    And he looked visibly embarrassed to claim the MVP of the WC.
  36. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:44

    Hola Puta New Member

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    Yes, you are right here "No player does show all the time" specifically as it is a team sport. Anyway, Ronaldo is way mentally stronger than Messi IMO specifically in recent years, but also I think Messi is treated very harshly from an International point of view. Reaching 3 finals in a row and losing 2 penalty shootouts and one late in extra-time can also be referred to as some bad luck. Also, I think Barcelona's board screwed up Messi's best years after Guardiola. When you have the GOAT or at least one of the greatest players of all time, you should try your hardest to win as many trophies as possible during this time, not to hire Managers like Tito Villanova, Tata Martino, Luis Enrique and Ernesto Valverde!! "The guy wins us the league every year or at least he helps us challenging for it till the last GW, we are doing great" But to conquer Europe, you have to have a great team and a great squad, your midfield should not be still depending on an ageing Iniesta, a guy like Paulinho, with all due respect, should not be a starting player for a team like Barcelona. Yes, Messi sometimes had bad games as any other player, but he is playing for Barcelona, the team should be good enough to win or to even score a goal "Roma return leg and Sevilla before Messi was subbed on for example".
  37. Apr 16, 2018 at 16:55

    Zehner Full Member

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    Absolutely nothing is of course an exaggeration. But he doesn't do much for the standards he wants to be compared with and I stand by this. In the last CL season, Cristiano had 2.1 dribbles, 1.4 key passes, 0.1 crosses, 0.5 long balls and 31 total passes per game. In the year before that, it were 1.2 dribbles, 1.5 key passes, 0.5 crosses, 0.3 long balls and 32 total passes. These are good statistics for a striker but he wants to be more than that.
    Messi in 2014/15 had 7.1 (!) dribbles, 2.8 key passes, 0.2 crosses, 2.2 long balls and 65 total passes per game.
    When you compare Cristiano's CL 2016/17 with Messi's 2014/15 per 90 minutes on Squawka, Messi has thrice as many forward passes, twice as many total passes, almost twice as many created chance and key passes and almost seven times as many successful dribblings while Ronaldo beats him with 0.9 compared to 0.79 goals - a difference of 0.11 goals per 90 minutes.

    These are lightyears. See, compared with him, Ronaldo is so, so far behind in this aspect of the game that I find it very hard to argue that he has had the best CL campaign ever. And it also relativizes the videos that you have posted. Especially the Napoli game was pretty good (still don't think he had a particularly great game against Bayern, though). But honestly, just because he scored his goals in the knockout stages doesn't make up for the differences in contribution, IMO.
  38. Apr 16, 2018 at 17:03

    Hola Puta New Member

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    Ronaldo is at least one of the best penalty takers I've ever seen, I was just mentioning the misses because there were lots of concentration on Messi's missed penalty vs Chile 2016 and no mentioning that he scored vs Chile in 2015, he scored vs Uruguay in Copa America 2011 and he actually has never missed a penalty in El Clasico for instance. Ronaldo of course is a better penalty taker, I do not think anyone can disagree with that, but Messi is not a bad penalty taker at all. Ronaldo is mentally stronger than Messi specially in the last 2 or 3 years, but that does not mean Messi is a bottler.

    Regarding the Euros, I do not think Portugal were stalling their qualification to be that late in the match vs Hungary "the 62nd minute" thinking about the easiest route because they had to be ranked the 3rd or 4th from the best four teams that occupied 3rd places in their respective groups. Portugal will not settle for that when it is 3-3 and any loss will knock them out altogether, I think that is a very big risk.

    What I was trying to state earlier is that Ronaldo was not conquering the CL every year as it seems to be the case since 2017 and was not conquering most of the big games his team needed him and even in 2014 and 2016 CLs, he was not their most decisive player in the big matches at all, Ramos was clearly the saviour in 2014 vs Bayern and in 2016, Real was not that good, I think they somehow fluked their way to winning it without an obvious decisive player IMO.
  39. Apr 16, 2018 at 17:40

    Cal? The Donald Trump of CR7 fans

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    Again with the obsession of dribbling. :rolleyes:

    Forward passes, total passes? :eek:

    Simply, Barca's style means most of their players play more passes anyway, but does that always mean they're better? Not at all.

    The ultimate aim of football is to score goals, I don't think you can argue with that. So if Messi was contributing much more in 14/15 than Ronaldo in 16/17 as you suggested. Even if he didn't score the goals himself, his TEAM should be scoring lots of goals right?

    Team - Group - L16 - QF - SF - F
    Barca 14/15 - 15 - 3 - 5 - 5 - 3
    Real 16/17 - 16 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 4

    So basically Real have outscored Barca every stage of the competition.
  40. Apr 16, 2018 at 17:54

    Zehner Full Member

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    You should stick with irrational arguments and laughing smileys, logic is definitely nothing you excel at.