Midfield metronome

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Pogue Mahone, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. Sep 24, 2018
    #1

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    So apparently Jorginho broke a record for most passes in a top-flight match since Opta records began (2003-04) when Chelsea played West Ham. He attempted 180 passes. The next highest (Rudiger) attempted 86. When Chelsea played Newcastle, Jorginho attempted more passes than the entire Newcastle team.

    IMHO when I think back to the problems this United team have had over the last several years, the single biggest issue has been the lack of a midfield metronome like Jorginho. Someone who controls the tempo of the game with simple one touch passing and the ability to know when to speed things up and when to slow things down. Pogba's an incredibly talented footballer but he is not this type of player and I don't think he ever will be. Scholes was that type of player. Carrick helped us cope with Scholes decline. He wasn't as creative as the ginger ninja but brought a similar sense of calm and control to our midfield and was an extremely accurate passer with either foot. Since then, the closest we'd had is Matic. But he likes to take too many touches and is a bit too one-footed to play that sort of role effectively (IMO). We badly need someone who can play accurate consistent first time passes with either foot and who has the same sort of radar as Scholes, an instant awareness of where to shift the ball to most hurt the opposition.

    Can't really be arsed getting into an argument about whether or not Mourinho is the best manager for us and if signing any more players will "fix" his team. I'm just curious if there are any players out there who fit the bill? Or does anyone think we'll be ok without that sort of player? Maybe teams don't need these sort of players any more? You could argue that Liverpool and City don't.

    Anyhoo. Discuss.
  2. Sep 24, 2018
    #2

    sincher "I will cry if Rooney leaves"

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    I agree. Shame Leon Britton retired.
  3. Sep 24, 2018
    #3

    FootyGirl88

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    Only Pogba and Pereira can do this in the current team. Pereira will get better at controlling games with more experience.
  4. Sep 24, 2018
    #4

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Pogba can't though. He takes far too many touches and likes to dribble too much. Not knocking him for that. It's great having someone who can beat a man in midfield. But he would be a much more effective CM with a peak Michael Carrick behind him.
  5. Sep 24, 2018
    #5

    el3mel Full Member

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    That's the reason I questioned the investment in Fred even though he's not bad, we needed more of a tempo controller midfielder not a Herrera upgrade.
  6. Sep 24, 2018
    #6

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Who though?
  7. Sep 24, 2018
    #7

    FootyGirl88

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    He dictates our attacking play as everything goes through him. I feel he could control the midfield if he was given that specific job.
  8. Sep 24, 2018
    #8

    Raw Full Member

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    It's a shame because these kinds of players are very rare. Our scouts need to pay close attention to these kinds of players. The only ones I can think of are already playing for the top teams anyway.
  9. Sep 24, 2018
    #9

    Can7onA Full Member

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    We need a gay garden ornament?
  10. Sep 24, 2018
    #10

    FootyGirl88

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    True this is why we need to develop our own talent.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  11. Sep 24, 2018
    #11

    RedFish Full Member

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    Yep, we need to play ticka-tocka football.
  12. Sep 24, 2018
    #12

    el3mel Full Member

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    No names striking my head. Mind boggling why we didn't try for Jorginho.

    These kind of players help keeping possession and rotating the ball, something we severely lack in, not a chaotic midfielder.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  13. Sep 24, 2018
    #13

    RedFish Full Member

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  14. Sep 24, 2018
    #14

    TheReligion Abusive

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    Kovacic?

    I agree though. Pogba is better at delivering the killer pass as opposed to just keeping things ticking in the middle. We need someone who is less of a risk taker but simply solid at playing the ball out of tight areas and being accurate at short sharp passes.
  15. Sep 24, 2018
    #15

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Not mind boggling at all (“poggling” is a great freudian slip btw!). He was a package deal with Sarri. We were never in the running.
  16. Sep 24, 2018
    #16

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

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    I largely agree that such a player would be useful for us. The problem we've had is that our midfield was so dysfunctional; for a while we had an aged Carrick, an assortment of odds and ends and flop signings, that adding a steady, metronomic passer wouldn't have improved us when we desperately needed creatively and defensive grit. Now such a player would be great as we sorely lack tempo.
  17. Sep 24, 2018
    #17

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    I personally think its down to the way you want to play, for instance who is Liverpools midfield metronome? They don't need one because their style of play doesn't require one.

    Anyway I'm just not sure what we want our attacking play to be like, similarly City who is Citys midfield metronome? I don't feel like they have one but I could be wrong.

    It would only be useful if our attacking system was built on a central passing figure, I tend to think its not really a good thing, as yesterday when Jorginho was miss placing passes quite a bit, the Chelsea attack seemed to stall, I much prefer a system where the attacking axis is not so easily identifiable. Actually I think thats one of our major problems, everyone knows vs United shut down Pogba and the LW and you shut down the whole attack

    Single biggest problem for me is the lack of movement and attacking patterns of play and if we signed a Jorginho, we would see him making tons of sideways passes and doing plenty of arm-waving because of the lack of movement and attacking patterns of play used to disrupt the opposition defence.

    If you watch Chelsea the way Hazard drops deep, moves all over the place, Pedro and Willian also they cause a lot of problems and give plenty of passing options, even Kante getting forward also adds to the confusion in the opposition defence.

    Movement is our biggest issue, and I reckon if we fix that Pogba can pick the passes, I would even wager that Pereira would become a really important player in our midfield if we solved the lack of movement
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  18. Sep 24, 2018
    #18

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

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    I've always rated Leandro Paredes personally. Although he hasn't shown to be able to dictate tempo consistently, I think he has that ability in him. He's also pretty tenacious for a technical player and has an incredible passing range. He'd be perfect in a system that allows us to press and has fluidity of movement.
  19. Sep 24, 2018
    #19

    el3mel Full Member

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    Should have used "baffling" as it's more familiar for me, damn it. :D :D
  20. Sep 24, 2018
    #20

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Most of those passes are backwards or sideways. Id rather have 1 pass that's forward and effective than 15 going back and forth.

    Yes if you're advancing up the pitch it's worth it, but most the time it's just passing for the sake of it, trying to wear down the opposition.
  21. Sep 24, 2018
    #21

    Infra-red Full Member

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    Assuming that neither Kroos nor Thiago miraculously become available, Neves could be an option, or perhaps Weigl. Diawara is pretty talented.
  22. Sep 24, 2018
    #22

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

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    I think it can be effective in drawing out the opposition to create space in behind, but teams are so well drilled these days that they rarely make this mistake. The number of passes is an unnecessary statistic, it's the ability to change tempo when required that is the key for this type of player.
  23. Sep 24, 2018
    #23

    Treble Full Member

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    When so much goes through one player, the team becomes vulnerable against top pressing sides imo. Be interesting to see how Jorginho does vs Liverpool. Firmino's fist task will be to press Jorginho.
  24. Sep 24, 2018
    #24

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Yep, we used to similar things with Blind/Carrick at CDM under LVG. We went back and forth doing loads of passing but rarely made advancements up the pitch.

    Most teams know how to contain possession sides quite well these days. You need a Hazard type to unlock those deep lying defences, it just didn't work for us.
  25. Sep 24, 2018
    #25

    Andersons Dietician Full Member

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    I’ve always really liked Jorginho was always pushing his name on Talking Reds and made a thread for him, he was what I would imagine Carrick would be like if he were born in Brazil, Now I was a big fan of Matic and thought he’d be a great signing for us in a Jose system but I watch him now and it’s not quite working out as I had thought for him here and now Jose seems to be moving away from his tried and tested football I think the need for a metronome is more important now.

    Ruban Neves is the one that comes to mind but he still needs a lot of refining and he’s maybe not quite yet that kind of guy but he is happy to sit behind the offence and just dictate play and if need be come on and take a strike from outside the box. My worry and I know it’s a little cliche when you see what Kante does but the size, the physicality he’d need to have to cover the ground if Pogba and Fred are caught out of position along with our fullbacks.

    A younger Carrick would be perfect for this team right now.
  26. Sep 24, 2018
    #26

    Pass and Move Full Member

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    Record for the most passes in a PL game. Still failed to beat West Ham.
  27. Sep 24, 2018
    #27

    Mcking Full Member

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    I think this is just trying to hide the fact that we have a non-team and a non-system. Even a 'metronome' will probably be shit here.
  28. Sep 24, 2018
    #28

    Mcking Full Member

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    Exactly, I said this in the Chelsea. If you can suceed in putting a man on Jorginho, I think Chelsea are pretty much done. Their system and heavily reliant on him and Sarri is soo one-dimensional.
  29. Sep 24, 2018
    #29

    Ether Full Member

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    Should've got Kroos when he wanted to leave Bayern, targeting him was one of the few things Moyes got right. After that you hoped LVG would have addressed it but he went for an over the hill Schweinsteiger.

    Mourinho should go for Frenkie de Jong but I don't know if he'd trust someone that age in such an important role.
  30. Sep 24, 2018
    #30

    Jim Beam Full Member

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    Thiago. But, Jose doesn't play with a metronome.
  31. Sep 24, 2018
    #31

    CM10 Full Member

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    I liked Jorginho at Napoli but having a lot of the ball isn't exactly the measure of a great midfielder. His performance yesterday was actually a bit drab and I don't think things have fully clicked for him yet at Chelsea (though there's still time).

    He certainly wasn't the kind of player I was longing for when we were struggling against Wolves on Saturday.
  32. Sep 24, 2018
    #32

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

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    It could well be Pereira's best route into the side, and his best role in the future. I'm not sure he has the defensive nous to screen the centre backs, but it is something that can be developed - Matic started out as a more attacking player too, and he's become an excellent defensive player.
  33. Sep 24, 2018
    #33

    Rozay Master of Hindsight

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    It’s apparently all Pogba’s job. He needs to simultaneously play like he played at the Etihad or against Young Boys every week, and also be ‘better when he keeps it simple’ at the same time.
  34. Sep 24, 2018
    #34

    VivaObertan Transfer Voyeur

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    Neves, Eriksen, Kroos, Thiago, Illaramendi, Cesc.

    I was shocked in Jose's first season he didn't try to sign Thiago Motta to rotate with Carrick, tbh. Guy is a beast in this role irrespective of age.
  35. Sep 24, 2018
    #35

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

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    Huh?
  36. Sep 24, 2018
    #36

    711 Full Member Scout

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    I'd love another Scholes, but for his attacking ability, not his zombie football days. @Cassidy is right above, it's lack of movement that's the problem, not the lack of a prolific short passer.
  37. Sep 24, 2018
    #37

    Still ill Fantasy Football Champ 2018

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    It's another one of those discussions destined to go round in circles for the rest of time. There's no point in having a player like Jorginho because our movement is shite. Or would, in fact, someone who was constantly looking to get on the ball and give it improve our movement. I'm in the latter camp. Sure, lies, damn lies and statistics, 180 passes and they still failed to score against West Ham but I don't think anyone who's watched Chelsea this season will deny that they're developing a clear identity, one that is exciting and creates chances.
    We spend our lives giving out about Smalling and partner being shit on the ball but how often is there a midfielder in space and demanding the ball? How often do our full-backs or central misfielders look up and find no clear option in front of them?
    A central midfielder who just shows constantly and gives it simple would benefit us massively. I think.
  38. Sep 24, 2018
    #38

    Physiocrat Full Member

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    Agreed
  39. Sep 24, 2018
    #39

    Patrick08 Full Member

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    He was not ready to play the Mourinho way, selected a team which suited his strengths and style of play.
  40. Sep 24, 2018
    #40

    Dr Fink Full Member

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    Completely agree with a previous poster - our movement is to blame. Not many runs in the channels from our front three. Pogba has nothing to pass to. Those bringing the ball out from the back end up a majority of the time with arms out in front, palms up indicating no movement ahead. This is the crux of the issue. In answer to your question, I don't know who is out there to fit the bill, but until then it has to be Pogba.