Mitten bang on about Mourinho

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Ramshock, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Dec 28, 2017
    #1

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    37,757
    Location:
    Swimming against a tide of idiots and spoofers
  2. Dec 28, 2017
    #2

    Acole9 Outstanding

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    9,225
    Don't always agree with Mitten but that is a good article. The one below from Ogden is a decent read too.
  3. Dec 28, 2017
    #3

    Pace Abuser Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    867
    As it comes clear that Griezman is a club signing (read: marketability) and not the manager, a proper strategy is needed.

    We have a failing transfer strategy that has lead to this square pegs syndrome today.
  4. Dec 28, 2017
    #4

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,032
    Location:
    Canada
    And maybe that could be the reason the club did not fully back Jose in Perisic pursuit, which if true is sad.
  5. Dec 28, 2017
    #5

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    11,642
  6. Dec 28, 2017
    #6

    Leif GW New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    215
    Reasonable article. Frankly, I think a lot the tension could be eased up by Mourinho just being a little more relaxed and happier and not trying to be controversial in the press.

    He just seems so absolutely bored and grumpy. He doesn't inspire confidence when you see him on the sidelines, he seems to hate it. He's never been a charmer that way but at least had a charisma about him. I don't see it any more.
  7. Dec 28, 2017
    #7

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    4,342
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    He seems to think we need a left winger. Surely a right winger is the area in need?

    I agree with the rest of his list though: two full backs, CM and a No.10.
  8. Dec 28, 2017
    #8

    MaxiPaxi likes to shove his mum's boiled eggs up his rectum

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2017
    Messages:
    11,642

    That’s a valid point. I don’t expect him to smile like a clown but I think his current mood doesn’t help either.
  9. Dec 28, 2017
    #9

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,244
    Location:
    London
    Sure to divide opinions but I agree with him.
  10. Dec 28, 2017
    #10

    Handsome Devil Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    917
    Location:
    No, not Lisbon..Lisburn!
    I think we all are after watching the last few performances!
    Good article though and not the usual hatchet job.
  11. Dec 28, 2017
    #11

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Messages:
    37,757
    Location:
    Swimming against a tide of idiots and spoofers
    Because they are cnuts?
  12. Dec 28, 2017
    #12

    jojojo Moderator Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2007
    Messages:
    28,410
    Location:
    Welcome to Manchester reception committee
    Seems like a fair article. Last year looks like it was just an underachieving blip for City (just as I'm sure this year is an overachieving blip). All the misgivings that we had about City as a club looking better organised and better prepared in terms of football direction from youth team, through facilities to first team recruitment and manager appointment planning look correct.

    It's a good sign than we are fighting back at the youth team level and that we have, at least, stopped the rot by recruiting first teamers who mostly actually play like first teamers. There's just a lot more to do, and Mourinho and this season's performances are only part of that story.
  13. Dec 28, 2017
    #13

    gulli_G Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2000
    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    UK
    So do I, City have been planning for Pep ever since they got Tixi, we had Fergie at the time and did not forward plan. I think Moyes appointment was a bit of arrogance on our part and then when that failed, LVG was only available and we got him, he stopped the Moyes rot and then started his own.
  14. Dec 28, 2017
    #14

    United_We_Stand Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    3,063
    Location:
    Syria
    Once again, Mitten says the proposed DoF position will have no power over transfers

    .
  15. Dec 28, 2017
    #15

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    29,465
    Location:
    Reykjavík
    There will be some that won't be bothered to read. Here are some highlights:
  16. Dec 28, 2017
    #16

    Womp idiot

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6,902
    Location:
    chillin' on top of the Opera House
    What else does a DOF even do? I thought they were only responsible for overlooking the recruitment of the club?
  17. Dec 28, 2017
    #17

    Moonred Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    10,208
    Location:
    Virgo Supercluster
    Decent read. Few things are unclear and more of retrospective understanding but I guess majority do realise the crux of it.
  18. Dec 28, 2017
    #18

    Klean Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    USA
    I don't understand the obsession with a Director of Football. The two big instances of them working successfully (City and Bayern) have long connections between their DoF and their manager. If anything I believe a DoF would make it harder to attract a top manager that wants to bring in certain players.

    Could someone educate me on the strengths and weaknesses of having one?
  19. Dec 28, 2017
    #19

    Womp idiot

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    6,902
    Location:
    chillin' on top of the Opera House
    I think that's being a little naive. A DOF would ideally work in tandem with managers. Their job is to overlook the whole direction of the club, to make sure we're recruiting players and managers that suit our 'plan' or identity going forward. I think a DOF or someone of the sort who overlooks that stuff is important in today's game as managers are changed extremely often and without a DOF you're asking for a much greater job from all incoming managers. Instead if a DOF or someone of the sort was present, the manager being hired would suit our style and identity and he'd have a squad of players who would suit him too, albeit they may need a few tweaks and changes.

    A drawback is your point, some managers might be old school and wouldn't enjoy not having 100% control, but I don't think that's really a sustainable approach for sustained success in today's game. Managers change far too often and both fans and boards are far too reactionary now, one bad season and managers are told to feck off in today's game.
  20. Dec 28, 2017
    #20

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    97,354
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    The 16 players signed by Pep vs 7 by Mourinho was news to me. And gives a whole new perspective to all that chat about similar total spends. Clearly, the fact we spent so much money on Pogba distorts the comparison in terms of total spend but I’m sure Mou would be much happier if a similar proportion of our squad was signed on his watch.
  21. Dec 28, 2017
    #21

    p2pZeus Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Messages:
    56
    Just wanted to chime in regarding Mitten.
    This is not a comment about the article itself, but remember to take anything written by Mitten with a pinch of salt.
    He is United fan first and foremost, but he also has his own self-interest agenda.
    I lost all respect for him after his behaviour during Moyes days and I will continue to ignore whatever he writes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2017
  22. Dec 28, 2017
    #22

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    97,354
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    My big worry with a DoF is that it’s another uncertainty in uncertain times. If things go badly, how do we know who’s to blane? Maybe we end up with a good manager but a bad DOF? Yet it’s inevitably the manager who will get sacked. Then we rinse and repeat.
  23. Dec 28, 2017
    #23

    Klean Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    USA
    I don't disagree with your point. But look at the Persic saga as an example from this summer. There was a player that the manager preferred tactically that (if rumors are true) the club wouldn't sanction a bid for. To me the football is a revolving game tactically. Look at how everyone copied Conte with a 3-4-3 last year with the success he had. When Van Gaal was here and we played 5 at the back other managers followed suit. I think its more important to have the proper players the manager wants rather than the ones the club wants.

    Maybe I'm missing something but it feels like the last few years that our club has been in this same crisis trying to balance "The United Way" vs. a Galatico approach like Madrid for example (how Woodward wants the club to be).
  24. Dec 28, 2017
    #24

    NinjaFletch Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    16,293
    He's not spot on about Mourinho; he's spot on about the club.

    We've been a garbled mess since the day Ferguson retired lacking in clarity, vision, and cohesion.
  25. Dec 28, 2017
    #25

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,172
    If you have a long term manager then it's fine if there is no DoF, the long term manager has certain style and he will only buy players suited to his needs, so no problem. But at clubs like Chelsea who sack manager every other season, you cannot give the manager the power to sign according to his wish because once he is fired the next manager would want to discard the players that he feels doesn't suit his needs and will buy new players so there will be no stability in the squad, just like us right now, Moyes didn't want SAF's hand picked transfers, LvG booted out Moyes' signings, Mourinho did the same to LvG's signings.

    That's how I see it anyway.
  26. Dec 28, 2017
    #26

    Oscie Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    3,680
    It all seems a bit meaningless. If players we signed were performing how we anticipated then it'd be a good transfer 'strategy', wouldn't it?

    If City were not smashing records he'd probably write and article lauding the fact we're 'back on track', with a 'cohesive transfer policy'. If he's arguing that the club should try to sign players who will help the team, then I agree. But it all seems a bit lazy. People lap it up because it's what some of us want to hear.

    Good run of form:

    - Write an article mentioning the 'rebirth' of he club, praising he forward planning, say the club is 'back on its feet', etc.

    Poor run of form:

    - Write article criticising the 'transfer strategy', suggest things need to change, bemoan stuff.

    Seems quite formulaic. And as ever with Mitten's articles - an absolute arse-load of padding.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  27. Dec 28, 2017
    #27

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,172
    Inter were being difficult with that transfer just like Madrid were with Morata, they were constantly changing goalposts regarding the transfer fee, we rightly turned that down. Mourinho should have had a backup plan.
  28. Dec 28, 2017
    #28

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    13,505
    We need both.
    But it was evident in our last game, that from the left, none of our players have the skill to do a cross. Young can do, though due to his age, we can't expect him to play too many games.
    Had we got Perisic in the Summer, in the Burnley game, I have no doubt that we'd have scored 2-3 goals from crosses which Perisic would've delivered.
    I think it's a travesty that we have a Lukaku in our team, but the players around him do not have the ability to deliver a decent cross.
    And don't even get me started on corners.
  29. Dec 28, 2017
    #29

    Litch Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2013
    Messages:
    5,566
    Thought that was a great read. When you think about that AC Milan team back then and where they are now....crazy.
  30. Dec 28, 2017
    #30

    Moonred Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    10,208
    Location:
    Virgo Supercluster
    The big problem in the Dof thingy is that people are taking it for granted that the Dof appointment will be bang on.
  31. Dec 28, 2017
    #31

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    13,505
    Inter were not being difficult. They wanted more money. Simple.
    We offered £31M. They said no...give us more. We did nothing.
    £31M for a top class left winger who is at the peak of his powers, is totally unrealistic.
  32. Dec 28, 2017
    #32

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    29,465
    Location:
    Reykjavík
    13 of them are involved in the first team, 2 are already gone.
  33. Dec 28, 2017
    #33

    AR87 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,711
    Location:
    Has fallen for Fred way too soon
    We do have a more cohesive transfer strategy now. Mourinho is the first manager since Ferguson to have a clear idea entering the market every summer of what he wants. He hasn't gotten all of it but he has addressed areas of need and strengthened us, though not enough obviously, in certain areas of need.

    The issue we're seeing with the squad is the failed transfers under Moyes and LVG.
  34. Dec 28, 2017
    #34

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,172
    Didn't we bid 45 mil or something then there were ridiculous rumours like them asking Martial for exchange.
  35. Dec 28, 2017
    #35

    IrishRedDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2016
    Messages:
    4,342
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Let's be realistic for a minute. We cannot just go and sign half a team worth of new players and leave players like Martial sitting out. Martial is a quality player on the left and if we added a RW who can cross the ball, there is nothing wrong with having a player like Martial on the left who likes to dribble and cut inside.

    Adding a RW, No.10, a fullback or 2 and another CM to act as cover is plenty!
  36. Dec 28, 2017
    #36

    Oscie Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    3,680
    I don't even know what transfer 'strategy' looks like, and I expect neither does Mitten. Beyond: players that are successful = good strategy. Players that aren't successful = bad strategy.

    Honestly I've no idea why this guy gets given time of day. I suspect he wouldn't be if it wasn't for the accent. His articles are horrible and ramble on about any old irrelevant shite to meet the word count. He's by far the least insightful 'features' journalist there is.

    "United also lost Sir Alex Ferguson and chief executive David Gill, a respected figure at the club and in football, in 2013"

    Surprised he didn't stretch out the article with a paragraph explaining to everyone that the club used to be called Newton Heath or that we play at a stadium called Old Trafford. Man steals a living, he really does.
  37. Dec 28, 2017
    #37

    bosnian_red Worst scout to ever exist

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    33,911
    Location:
    Canada
    Well we did spend 165m on Pogba and Lukaku. They spent big on fullbacks this window, but also got a lot of very good deals like both Sane and Jesus for around 35m each.

    Also a few of those signings from Pep were duds, he just cut them right away though. We seem to hold our players and give them multiple chances to fail before cutting them loose. Even then they still usually manage to last 5 years for whatever reason.

    Generally I think Mourinho wasn't aggressive enough in his rebuild (also his ambitions for the team he's building, being one to stifle like teams with less funds usually go for rather then dominate like teams with unlimited funds tend to go for, but that's a different conversation). He pretty much did a slow and smooth transition, while Pep just threw everything he didn't want away and replaced them. Mou's style is what Moyes should've done after Fergie, but Mourinho now should've been more aggressive as we were pretty shit the last 5 years so a rip up was needed more then anything. City spent more to get those extra players, true, but they also sold quite a bit more. We just hung on to most of ours.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  38. Dec 28, 2017
    #38

    Theonas Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,978
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Spot on. It's another copy and paste article. Some guarded optimism that basically says, we're good but there is more work to do.
  39. Dec 28, 2017
    #39

    Klean Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2017
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    USA
    My personal issue with this logic is that who would hire a manager with the intent of only having him on board a few years. If its a stopgap then don't back the manager to the tune of 250 million in a transfer window. When Mourinho was signed I genuinely felt he wanted to be here 6-8 years. He knew to create a lasting legacy he could go to Fergie's club and restore them to the pinnacle of English football. His Ego needs it, and he knew the club needs it as well. That is why the fit made so much sense.

    Even take Chelsea as a club. Since 2012 they have had like 5-6 managers since 2012, but they don't overhaul their roster with every new manager.
  40. Dec 28, 2017
    #40

    Theonas Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,978
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    That's a good point indeed. The issue for me is that decisions are made by one man, not that this man is the manager. If a club puts all its eggs in one basket, it is equally risky whether the basket has the title of a DoF or a manager. I think clubs need enough footballing people in high positions who more or less share a specific footballing vision. Barcelona for example had that consistency of vision for a long time, Txiki Begiristain was just another employee in a long line of people sharing a lot of similar views in how they wanted the club to play. You see the same with Bayern and their armada of former players and legends all involved in the footballing side of decision of making. I remember Fergie talking about them as a good example of how a football club should have that sort of character at the board level.

    We are trying to find that one man who will make it all tick because Fergie did it. The football landscape has changed too much to trust any one man with such decisions.