Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by VanGaalEra, May 30, 2016.
Didn't Paredes asked to be sold in order to multiply his wage?
I did not know that.
You thought he was worse than mikhi after he was transferred, cant just change his valuation after the season he had.
It is a genuine question, I seem to remember two opposing stories one about playing time and the other about wage.
Both could be true.
Yes you praise the manager and their coaching staff! You dont praise the man who just made their more difficult. By all means praise him if he brings in quality players at a cheaper price, while getting big money for their established pros, but don't praise him for selling his top players for an average price, while replacing them with inferior players at an average price. That's the bare minimum he should be doing. Yes they are still Roma. Are we to believe Monchi's long term plan is to expect his manager to perform a miracle each season with a shitter set of players than before? He should take a leaf of Levy's book, that's how you negotiate.
They were 4 points behind them a season ago. It's hardly an impossible task to keep relatively close to the top two. Your praise is entirely misplaced. It should be going to the manager.
Im entirely happy to admit I was wrong about Salah, very wrong. I wasn't at the club though, watching him week in, week out, in close relation to the player and the coaching staff. I'm not being paid a small fortune to get this stuff right.
Ultimately he was a star player on a long term contract, with plenty of years ago of him. Selling for 40mil simply isn't good enough.
Who said the manager isn't getting praised though ? They all work together so they all deserve various degrees of praise.
Thing is you werent wrong, he went up a level at liverpool. Based on the player he was when liverpool bought him, the valuation was correct as nobody could have predicted the subsequent season.
It also remains to be seen if its just klopp's system or salah responsible for the performances.
The valuation was the same as Mhkitaryan, and Henrik was older and in his last 12 months of his contract. Dortmund had to sell, and 40mil was about right. Roma held all the cards and ultimately should have got more, even if we only consider the value of Roma's incarnation.
Who said you weren't praising the manager? I'm saying the manager and his coaching staff should be getting it all. There's some serious mental gymnastics going on if you come to the conclusion that the director of football should be praised for making the squad weaker. The manager has pulled off the 'miracle', the director of football has just ensured it had to be pulled off to avoid a disappointing season. The league is a far truer reflection on the quality of the squad and it's damning.
Look at your own weird ass mental gymnatics when I keep telling you he can be praised for his team's accomplishments despite them getting weaker. It is not like he decided to wake up one day and gut the team for his own pleasure. They need to sell every season some important players. You are acting like he hamstrung them for his own pleasure.
Also you are funny just selecting the league just because it suits your point. A season is a whole for me.
You can tell me all you like, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous. I get it, he needs to sell players. What a good director of football would do is replace them with affordable quality. That's how he earns his corn. Replacing them with average players isn't something to write home about. You're being entirely disingenuous if you can honestly look at the list of incoming and outgoing players and say he's done a good job.
And you seem to be incapable of accepting that going from 4 points behind the leaders to 17 in 1 season is fecking dreadful, whatever obsurd spin you try and put on it. The manager and the coaches have managed to get these players playing above their level, not the DOF, not matter how willing you are to praise him by assocation. He's literally had zero input into that. None.
The 17 points argument isnt a great one to discredit Monchi.
Juventus & Napoli set a crazy pace. As Roma got deeper and deeper into the CL their focus started to shift and they fell off from those two quite a bit. Napoli basically had to drop out of all other comps just to keep that pace going. I’m sure Roma fans would much rather take another season like 17/18, rather than 16/17.
Another thing is the Salah sale, people say now that Roma sold him too cheap. While he put up solid numbers in Rome, and showed promise, his breakout this season came down to tactics, players around him, and playing in a league that better suits his style. I doubt he ever would have replicated a season like this past one if he was still in Rome.
I do like what Monchi is doing with Roma though, yes they’ve sold some big players, but this is a long term build for them. The likes of Coric, Under, Kluivert, Pellegrini, Schick etc are all great young talents who are going to be given the proper space and time to grow and improve. I really think Monchi has his eyes set on the 2020/2021 season when Roma is playing in their new stadium, as that will change everything for the club.
You're the one who is coming up with a ridiculous and simplistic view of football, I'm sorry. Since this post explains it even much better, I will quote it for you. There isn't much else I can say on the subject to someone like you, like basically talking to a wall.
Roma is much smaller than Juventus in terms of budget and to have been able to finish 3rd while having this run in the CL and losing some important players. It's a rather good season in my book and in many of their fans' books too
Yet again, you refuse to talk about this in any detail. You tell me the players are playing above their level in part because of the DOF, but you won't explain this jibberish. You put down their good run down, in part, to the DOF and yet for some reason won't explain the details. You say the transfers were incredible and yet now accept the team has been weakened. I'll use Spurs again as an example (though Sabatini would've been more than adequate), since fundamentally they had a similar standing to Roma in the PL. When clubs came knocking for their top players they were made to pay through the nose. Yet through good scouting and savvy work from Levy they've been able to recruit intelligently, bringing in quality at good prices. That deserves praise. Underselling your best players (though he did well with Allison) and then making underwhelming signings to replace them doesn't deserve praise. He's not done a terrible job, but his #1 fan seems to be hugely overestimating his performances.
They didn't put together some incredible performance. Napoli finished on 91 points last season, the same Roma reached the year before. Yet somehow that exact same points tally is now unachievable for the minnows from Rome.
Because the DOF just doesn't only sign players but he makes assessments with the manager whether targeted players fit what the manager requires mentally, physically and technically. If you don't believe me, I suggest to you watching any documentary detailing the inner working of football clubs who have a DOF in their setup.
I have never said the team wasn't weakened, au contraire, because they have been weakened and they finished 3rd+CL semi final, everyone involved in the football deserve various degrees of praise. Everyone including the manager, the DOF and the players obviously. Everyone deserves credit. Finishing 3rd while focusing on the CL with a rather team is a great achievement. I just don't understand why you keep not considering their CL run. Why separate it from their season ? I mean for a club with a budget, if you choose one competition over the other, it will defo have an impact on it.
I know what a DOF does. Here he identifies the players, he doesn't train them. So I'll ask again. What has Monchi done to allow the players to play a level above their usual? Because that's what you're claiming.
They did well in the cup. As did Wigan when they won the FA cup. That wasn't some masterstroke from the upper echelon's of WAFC. Cup runs happen. Roma played just as many games in Europe the season before and miraculously managed to still compete.
Yes HE weakened the team. Why is that so difficult to understand? The manager got them playing to a higher standard than anyone thought capable. It was Monchi's job to replace the outgoing players with ones of similar quality. Do you think Roma weren't a selling club prior to Monchi's arrival? Those star players Monchi was able to sell were brought in by Sabatini under the same club culture. They were bought for a pitance and were a few results away from winning the league, something you claim Roma couldn't possibly acheive.
Anyway, this is going in circles so going to leave it there. Good chatting
Not that is not what I am claiming, you just simply need to read what I write and that is it. No need to go further than that. I said he worked with Di Francesco to identify the players that could helped them the most considering who they lost. I hope this is clearer now It's like a chronic diseases with posters wanting to read between the lines. Sometimes it's as straightforward as what is typed.
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Heading to Arsenal. Why on earth couldn’t we get him? How have arsenal first landed Sven, got rid of him and then managed to land Monchi? Whilst we can’t even appoint our first DOF?
Is he really? That's quite bonkers, and either tells us that this structural change is proving difficult, or that Woodward and the board are considering other candidates.
My Ole fever is hoping for someone with 'Man United experience', but it's probably just the fever, though.
Did a great job at Sevilla.
But what did he do at Roma? Doesn’t seem like the fans were impressed with him.
We're just waiting to sign him from Arsenal when he's well past it and on astronomical wages.
From what I've gathered, he didn't do a great job at Roma.
Did well at Sevilla on a budget but was given license to spend last summer at Roma and it was a disaster. Might go better at Arsenal with Kroenke tightening the purse strings and them having a greater pulling power but I think it is the right decision to look elsewhere.
Arsenal fans are convinced they'll be signing Under, but think he'll be out of their budget.
Probably going to Arsenal as worked successfully with Unai Emery before at Seville.
I don't think he would be a right fit for us. We don't look for bargains often while his experience has always been on those lines. We need a standout personality who can deal with the ego of star players, their agents and call spade as a spade. Occasionally we all would be fine with bargains but thats not the norm here.
Arsenal fans and their delusions.
Apparently he can’t handle criticism.
Let’s hope he isn’t watching AFTV this time next year.
Why is it bonkers at all? Should we just hire Monchi because he has a "big name"?
It's hardly like we've missed out on the golden goose here, Roma fans on Reddit seem happy to see the back of him. All things considered, he did a poor job there.
When are we going to sign a DoF? Do Barcelona have one?
No, hope not! Maybe bonkers isn't the right wording, but it's surprising that Arsenal have managed to hire Mislintat, fire him, and then appoint Monchi before Woodward has made his mind up on the matter.
Ah that's fair. I think Woodward knows who he wants in the role and Monchi wasn't the man.
As if he had a say in sales. Have to laugh at the sold list. Most of these players went for good money and Roma couldnt say no, rather than him deciding who to sell.
Not really suited to a big club like us, he's an underdog guy.
The sold bit is irrelevant, I agree. Main bit is most of the signings made to replace them haven't worked out.
perfect for them then
Thats true. Emery and him can work together at Arsenal on a budget, think that should work much better
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