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Monchi | Leaves AS Roma

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by VanGaalEra, May 30, 2016.

  1. Apr 25, 2017

    SCP Full Member

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    It would be good for Serie A if Monchi and the right coach can make Roma an contender against Juve, I cannot expect nothing similar from the Milan clubs and Napoli even if Sarri stays needs more investment, why not Sarri for Roma? :drool:
  2. Apr 25, 2017

    Infordin Full Member

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    Roma are probably the second biggest club in Italy nowadays tbh.

    Let's see of signing Monchi can help them overcome that final hurdle to challenge and even beat Juventus across an entire league season.
  3. Apr 26, 2017

    B&Wandmore Banned

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    really good move from Roma, he is one of the best in his job and should do well in a club like them that relies on trading to stay on top. I am not too happy from juve point of view because their fans are some of the worst and most dislikeable in the league always crying and blaming referees even when they get record numbers of penalties :D
    Their management has been good though keeping them at the top despite quite a few financial constraints and their Academy is probably the best in the Serie A so Monchi will have plenty of talent to play with in Rome

    I think Scudetto run is closed and dusted by now, no matter what happens over the next two weeks, we need in theory 8 out of the next 15 points, but most likely 5-6 will be enough and we have still games with Crotone and Bologna in hand. If the Scudetto was won by Roma it would be at this point a bigger upset than Leicester winning last year :)
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  4. Jul 19, 2018

    Bastian Full Member

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    Monchi joined them in April 2017, so he obviously did not oversee the January window activity but I thought it was interesting to look at their transfer activity since 2017 (all figures in euros)

    Incoming transfers 17/18

    Defenders:
    Fazio (30) 3.2m
    Kolarov (31) 5m
    Juan Jesus (26) 8m
    Karsdorp (22) 14m
    Bruno Peres (27) 12.5m
    Hector the f bastard Moreno (29) 5.7m
    Mario Rui (26) 6m

    Midfielders:
    Gonalons (28) 5m
    Pellegrini (21) 10m
    Cengiz Under (20) 13.4m

    Fowards:
    Patrik Schick (21) fee-paying loan 5m
    Gregoire Defrel (26) fee-paying loan 5m

    Total 92.8m

    Outgoing transfers 17/18

    Salah (25) 42m
    Rudiger (24) 35m
    Parades (23) 23m
    Emerson (23) 20m
    Hector the bastard Moreno (30) 6m
    Mario Rui (26) 5.5m
    Marhizza (26) 5.5m
    Ricci (23) 3m
    Dombia (30) 3m
    Frattesi (17) 3m
    Vainqueur (28) 5m

    Total 151m

    Incoming transfers 18/19

    GK:
    Mirante (34) 4m
    Fuzato (21) 500K

    Defenders:
    Santon (27) 9.5m
    Bianda (18) 6m
    Marcano (31) free

    Midfielders:
    Pastore (29) 24.7m
    Kluivert (19) 17.2m
    Coric (21) 6m
    Cristante (23) fee-paying loan 5m
    Zaniolo (18) 4.5m

    Fowards:
    Defrel (27) 15m
    Schick (22) 9m

    Total 101.4m

    Outgoing transfers 18/19

    Nainggolan (30) 38m
    Skorupski (27) 9m
    Iturbe (25) 5m
    Tumminello (19) 5m
    Bruno Peres (28) fee-paying loan 1.4m
    Zukanovic (31) 1.2m
    Machin (21) 800K
    Calabresi (22) 200K
    Falcaso (24) 100K
    Allsson 70m

    Total 130.7m

    The squad's average age is 25.7

    They obviously shot themselves in the foot with the Salah transfer, but no one really knew he had it in him to challenge Messi and Ronaldo for player of the year. By and large they seem to do well in the market, making money while still going deep in the CL.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  5. Jul 19, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Those are some incredible transfer dealings in such a short period of time.
  6. Jul 19, 2018

    Bastian Full Member

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    Yeah, they are left with 87.5m after all that business (roughly speaking).
  7. Jul 19, 2018

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    Defrel was a huge letdown last season, whilst Cengiz a great prolspect and probably the next 70-80m transfer on the line.

    The only "bad" pieces of business I'd say are Defrel and letting go of Salah so cheap. In hindsight and all that as at the time they looked pretty much right.

    Monchi has built quite a good reputation both in Spain and now Italy. I'd say he'd look good pretty much everywhere and is a non brainer even for a top team looking to hire DoF.
  8. Jul 19, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Is that supposed to be impressive?
  9. Jul 19, 2018

    Bastian Full Member

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    Well, they weren't in the title race but their CL performance was their best since 1984. They've kept their average age relatively low and they've made a profit in 2017 and 2018. They are not a club with infinite resources and can hardly challenge the European elite clubs for players so, um, yes, I think it's rather impressive.
  10. Jul 19, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    When a team is willing to spend 70mil on a goalkeeper, it blunts it somewhat. They've gone from being 4 points behind the league leaders, to being 17 points behind. That's a disaster in my book. And selling Salah for what is about a quarter of his value in this market? Scandalous. So yeah, if you ignore everything that went wrong he's done an amazing job.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
  11. Jul 19, 2018

    Bastian Full Member

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    Like I said, the Salah thing was hard to predict. If people had known his true potential there is no way he'd have gone for that price nor that he'd have gone to Liverpool. A relatively thin squad would struggle to maintain form in both the CL and the league, but yes, last season Napoli and Juve blew the rest out of the water.

    Fair enough if you're not impressed. Not sure you are taking everything into consideration yourself though. Seems to be 1) Salah went below value 2) Alisson skews their transfer performances 3) their points gap with Juve. Feel free to ignore everything else. Like their run in the Champions League, them making a profit. Them shifting players for decent money (I didn't say Salah).
  12. Jul 19, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Liverpool did. They were willing to pay nearly 40mil for a cm that couldn't keep a place in the Arsenal squad.

    Conversely you're willing to praise him for keeping the club in the black, yet ignore the sheer volume of money he's allowed to slip through his fingers. Praise a cup run yet ignore their, frankly, horrendous performance in the league - a better indicator of how how a team is performing. All the while essentially selling their best players and weakening their squad. Brilliant job.
  13. Jul 19, 2018

    Castia Full Member

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    Not that impressive is it? They’ve sold much better players than they’ve signed imo. In fact the players bought look pretty shite with the likes of Santon, Kolarov, Fazio etc...Pastore this summer..meh.
  14. Jul 19, 2018

    Bastian Full Member

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    I'm sure you meant to write Chelsea. Anyhow, that bit about selling their best players. Don't you think that if a bigger club in a bigger league comes calling they have little chances to keep hold of them? I do. I think they've done well with Alisson btw. I was very impressed with Rudiger last season but they also got a decent fee for him and a club came calling that could probably triple his wages. I wasn't posting because I think Monchi has revolutionised Roma, just think it's interesting to see how they've been operating and it would be interesting to see him in the Prem where there is plenty of money. And yes, I think they've done well given they are, in terms of the european level of big clubs, a selling club.
  15. Jul 19, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    No I mean Arsenal, I was referring to the Ox. They were willing to spend a very similar amount on him, yet he wasn't nearly as integral as Salah was to Roma, and it wasn't as if Salah's contract was expiring. Roma held all the cards.

    So where is the acheivement? If they'd somehow been able to maintain the quality of the squad, great, or if his signings had meant they could keep pace in the league, even better, but he's managed neither of those things.
  16. Jul 19, 2018

    Bastian Full Member

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    The Salah thing I can't answer for, nor can anyone really. I don't think Klopp realised how good a player he had bought. I'm also not sure there is a team out there consistently 2nd or 3rd whilst making a profit in the market. This season will be a test for them. Maybe I'll bump the thread again in a year's time :D

    Oh, and the achievement in my view is the CL progress and the overall work in the market (again, Salah apart). I'm pretty sure most Roma fans (not that I know any) would have taken 3rd and a great CL run over exiting in the group stages and finishing 2nd. Let's see how they do this season.
  17. Jul 19, 2018

    Don Alfredo Full Member

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    I won't judge him on his outgoings because Roma is not known to be a club which can keep hold of it's best players. The prices could have been a bit higher. The Salah transfer was unfortunate, but if Rugani goes to Chelsea for 44m, why couldn't Roma fetch the same sum or more for Rudiger? He is much more proven than the Italian.

    His incoming transfers are underwhelming, to say the least. Compared to his big name as transfer guru, I mean. It just looks like throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks. Fazio, Juan Jesus, Hector Moreno, Gonalons, Santon and many more. A long list of average journeymen. Pastore for 25m is also a huge gamble. 25m doesn't sound like much, but that is still a very big sum for a single transfer for Roma. It could work brilliantly, but he is already 29 and whenever I watched him at PSG, he looked like the least interested player on the pitch.

    Cengiz Under and Pellegrini look like the best business and I think both are quite talented. However, I don't buy into the hype machine for Under just yet. He was among the worst players on the pitch against Liverpool, looked absolutely out of his depth. Nowhere near ready for a 80m transfer to a bigger club.
  18. Jul 20, 2018

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Patrick schick struggled badly aswell, just 2 goals in 22 games after his promising year at Sampdoria. I read a while back Roma struck a complicated agreement that they'd pay less if Schick didn't score much...?

    Always interested to see what Roma are up to with transfers. They're like Bayer Leverkusen in that they never really win anything but are still good to watch and always find exciting players from random places that get sold for double-triple two years down the line as we saw with Salah and now Allisson. They were making these deals long before Monchi turned up.

    Not sure if they're stronger or weaker than last season. Naingollan going to a rival isn't great but Pastore was great for Palermo in Seria A. Their chance to win Seria A was about 4 years ago when they won 10 straight games at the start of the season but inevitably Juve hit form and blew them out of the water.
  19. Jul 20, 2018

    FootballHQ Full Member

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    Problem with Roma in last few years is they're desperately trying to move out of the Olimpico so they can raise their own income like Juve. Not sure what the latest is but they've been deadlock with the Rome council on a site for a ground for years, their American president is very frustrated by this so difficult to expect title challenges with those restrictions.
  20. Jul 20, 2018

    Nick7 Full Member

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    Karsdorp and Schick were poor too. Gonalons not great either.
  21. Jul 20, 2018

    Snow Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

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    Chelsea and Liverpool have money like other top English teams. That's what those sale numbers say.
  22. Jul 20, 2018

    Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 Banned

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    Now that Roma sold Allison i expect them to strength their team massively.
  23. Jul 20, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Hindsight is so easy on this one though, why are you acting like a genius who predicted Salah was going to explode in the PL ? He took everyone by surprise. He was a good player but there is absolutely no one who thought he'd be the best player in his first season just like that. Really nothing scandalous about it
  24. Jul 20, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Feel free to quote me on that. If the poster is going to stretch to say Roma's CL run is a reflection of his good business, then Salahs price is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

    So you thought 40mil was a good deal then? Let me reiterate, 40mil was about what Liverpool were willing to pay for a CM who couldn't hold down a place in the Arsenal set up. Salah was Roma's 2nd top scorer and vital to their set up. He's young and had a long contract. They held every card. Whatever way you look at it, 40mil was not a good deal for Roma.
  25. Jul 20, 2018

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    Nope Napoli is
  26. Jul 20, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Of course it is so easy to say that now that you've seen Salah explode. You're not telling me anything other making an assessment after a player performed well beyond expectations.
    He had decent numbers in Italy but nothing out of the extraordinary, sure Roma could have gotten 10 more millions out of him but to say it's scandalous the sum he left for, is a joke to me. So fecking easy to throw judgments after the fact
  27. Jul 20, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Have I said that? I’m saying, quite clearly, Salah was more than a 40mil player in this market.

    You’ve evaded the point entirely. You might as well have replied to someone else. The poster stretched logic enough to directly praise Monchi with their deep run in the CL, but you find umbrage with the notion Roma should’ve gotten more for their player? Again, they valued him very low in the market comparatively to other players who weren’t playing as often, were more injury prone and almost universally considered inferior players. That either demonstrates a poor understanding of the market or a big underestimation of the players ability and value. In a thread that’s praising Monchis nouse in the market, it would be silly to ignore such a feck up.
  28. Jul 20, 2018

    Scarecrow Having a week off

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    Why do we have a 9-page thread on Roma's sporting director? Just curious.
  29. Jul 20, 2018

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    Are Napoli the 2nd best team or the 2nd biggest club? There's a difference there.
  30. Jul 20, 2018

    devilish Juventus fan who used to support United

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    The second biggest club remain AC milan both in terms of trophies and fans. Its difficult to assess the fan base as the more south you go the poorer people are and the less likely they can afford tickets/memberships. Many move to other countries or regions as well and tend to lay low because there is alot of internal xenophobia in italy

    All i can say is that Rome has to share their region with lazio. Napoli are the uncontested gods in campania
  31. Jul 20, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    I haven't ignored your point. I just don't think it is a feck up, no one reads the futur like that. Overall what Monchi has done isn't bad at all and defo praise worthy, specially for a team that is struggling to compete seriously for their league title (they still managed to reach the CL semi finals). They still made a decent business with Salah even if in hindsight they could have gotten more.
  32. Jul 20, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    It's not about reading the future, it's about reading the market and knowing what you have. Salah was a star player at Roma; he shouldn't be going for that kind of money in the current market. Is it really a stretch to say they should've got an extra 20mil for him? At least then it would somewhat reflect the players ability and potential at that time.

    What's he done that's praise worthy? He's sold their best players, some for good money, some for bad, and replaced them with inferior ones, which has seen them dramatically fall off the pace in the league. They were 4 points off the season he arrived, and last season they were 17(?). Genius.
  33. Jul 20, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    I quoted you when you said this "and selling Salah for what is about a quarter of his value in this market? Scandalous"
    You'd have said an extra 20million I would have had problem with it.
    What is praise worthy about him ? The squad that has gotten weaker pulled off a miracle in the CL and reached the semi finals. They also still finished 3rd and will take part of the CL again, it is very good IMHO knowing all the players they keep losing each transfer window
  34. Jul 20, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    Yes, in the context of someone praising him for reaching the CL semis, which is what I keep repeating. If you want to me more realistic then don't lavish praise on the director of football for a cup run? If you want to praise someone praise the manager. Ridiculous that you're giving it to Monchi who, as you have acknowledged, given the manager a weaker squad to work with.

    A much keener identifier of the ability of a squad is the league and they've, certainly in comparison to last year, had a disaster. They were 2 results away from winning 2 seasons ago and last season they were 17 points off the pace, and you're trying to spin that as an accomplishment?!
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  35. Jul 20, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Director of football is in some way very involved in the performances of a club IMHO. Praising Monchi doesn't mean I don't also praise their manager too, I don't have to choose between the 2 and just because I didn't mention the other, doesn't mean I think less of him. When a club does well, it's a collection of individuals that deserve recognition (players and staff) for their respective roles.
  36. Jul 20, 2018

    ivaldo Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?

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    No they aren't. They provide the tools for the manager and coaches to work with, and what Monchi has done is sell the best tools and replacement them with inferior ones. It's baffling you'll praise him for getting to the semis as a miracle, despite recognising that the reason it's such an acheivement is because the squad is weaker, something he is directly responsible for. All the while palming off their comparatively woeful performance in the league as a decent effort.
  37. Jul 20, 2018

    pensionator Full Member

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    Monchi sold Salah on discount for 2 reasons:

    1) At Roma he was good but miles away from his current level. No one could have expected such an amazing improvement

    2) He had to pile up 45mln before the end of June because of Financial Fair Play

    Pretty much they were desperate to find those 45mln and Liverpool speculated on that
  38. Jul 20, 2018

    JPRouve can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate

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    It wasn't a discount, they sold him for his worth and probably more.
  39. Jul 20, 2018

    kouroux 45k posts to finally achieve this tagline

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    Inferior ones that still helped their team manage to reach the CL semi finals and finish 3rd. They were never going to beat Juventus or Napoli for the title, the best thing they could have hoped with the players they lost is to reach the CL places which they did, thanks in part to a job done by Monchi in partnership with Di Francesco.
    If they achieved a miracle in the CL and reached it through the league, how is it not praise worthy ? Specially with the weaker squad. Some clubs don't have the financial power to sustain themselves to a decent level if they don't sell players regularly, AS ROMA is one of them. I'm sorry but a director of football works in close tandem with the manager so the club's results and performances is also a consequence of his work.
  40. Jul 20, 2018

    bucky Full Member

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    Still think it's weird how quickly he sold Paredes and he should have gotten more out of it.