Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Samid, Dec 2, 2018.
Anyone who wants Pogba sold should never complain that we lack "quality".
Respect is earned, not given. You put your manager above your players when he shows he has the long-term interests of the club in mind. Mourinho is making a mockery of the principles of our club by getting in between the fans and Pogba. Anyone who sides with Jose is part of the problem and deluded.
There is a clear pattern isn't it. Jose says something stupid and his blind followers just lap it up and keeps repeating the same thing.
Exactly, players need to take responsibility as well. Not that I want to defend Joses coaching but these are grown men. It's not little league.
I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated that it's not always either or.
You dispute the notion that Pogba should give 100% when he puts on the jersey?
Perfectly legal and 100% moronic.
And I do like to defend the paying old Trafford crowd more often than not.
It's always name calling and camps in this place.
Jose should go and quickly but that doesn't mean Pogba doesn't lack commitment for whatever reason. Im maybe a fool to expect players to give their 100 percent out there.
I don't say that cause I'm a 'blind follower' of the huge thundecnut disease of a man.
I would dispute that it's not easy to give everything when your coach say frankly nasty things to you in the locker room, someone leaks it and everyone talks about it for 4 days. Then you enter the field and you are the one player that is booed by the crowd. There is a fair chance that you simply don't have 100% available at that moment.
The Southampton game was apparently a pretty bad game from him but it happens to all players, I still don't know what happened to Messi and Iniesta during that first leg against PSG.
And with Pogba people want to say he is not a "team player" but, they also want him to do Roy of the Rovers stuff every match. The entire team was completely out of sync that match. I do not know how you could expect a top performance from him when the team as a whole is not playing well.
There's a limit to what they can do when the team is so badly coached for so long. There are players who are better at taking the game on themselves when things are not working and maybe we don't have enough of them, but that's just thw way things are.
I’m not talking about France I’m talking about in general. Zidane did not run a midfield by himself. He’s always had runners to allow him to play. So you telling me Pogba needs runners, so what!
Mourinho has a tendency to take players on when the team is not performing. I wish he came out and said he's made mistakes in recruiting, team selection and tactics. Shaw, Rashford, Valencia, Bailly, Pogba, Lukaku, Smalling, Jones (There could be more) have all been publically called out by Mourinho.
The manager deserves no respect. He ruins every team he goes to. That deserves respect? I don’t think so. Bailly is another example of his stupidity.
Players can and should give 100% all the time. However, even by giving their all it quite doesn't always go right and mistakes do occur. The team is also very much out of tune which in turn makes matters worse for certain individuals players. Don't forget human beings are also emotional creatures and mindsets has a massive impact on performances. Mourinho with his blame all attitude, sniping and grievances is not helping matters.
The view on Pogba is so weird.
Last season he was going out all guns blazing and was even mentioned as an early contender for player of the season in the whole league even, then he got injured and in the spring suddenly he was being shit, didn't put any effort in etc. Then he was instrumental in his country winning the WC as if that wasn't proof enough of where the real problem lies.
Same can be said this season to an extent.
I honestly believe those that want Pogba to leave with Mourinho deserves a United in this position we find ourselves in now. It's absolutely mental to want him out at this stage. I don't see that any new manager would want to start the rebuliding without our single most talented player - who has shown his quality under other managers. I bet the same can be said for Hazard and Conte at Chelsea.
I agree that Pogba has been inconsistent and that it looks like he can't be arsed at times. But who in today's squad can you say that give 100%? Even DDG look half-arsed now. When you have an entire team underperforming and not giving their all, then it's clearly the manager's fault. And how can you motivate yourself to perform in an environment when your leader constantly undermines you and, in Pogba's case, shit on your parade to celebrate the best moment in your career? In Martial's case it was making a mess of a happy situation when he became a father again. It's basic human psychology.
Mourinho has somehow managed to turn several people's heads against our most talented players at some stage, convincing his followers that they all are isolated cases, culminating in that pathetic booing of Pogba yesterday. It's baffling.
If Pogba doesn't perform under a new manager then I won't have any problem wanting him sold. That can be applied to all of our most talented players.
That's surely an implication? If he's dropping Bailly, Fred, Lukaku and Pogba due to poor form (who cost £250m) it's pretty obvious that recruitment is an issue.
It'd be like coming out and saying the sky is blue.
Yeah they deserved to be stuck watching a Fellani-Matic-McTominay midfield. They would at least give 100%
And the sad part is, people are falling for it.
if you cant show your so quality on the pitch week in week out then its worthless
He refused to play Modric. Enough said.
Match going fans aren't complete idiots. If Pogba didn't act like some sort of a spoiled drama queen at the start of the season and belittled the club I'm pretty sure They are still supportive of him. Some people are against him because of his attitude, his demeanor is pathetic and his comments were controversial, almost as if He wanted to tell us if He can do better than Manchester United and We need him more than He needs us.
And just because They are against him doesn't necessarily mean They support Jose. Both Jose and Pogba are pathetic and all talks without proof. Feck them both. Don't blame the fans, blame the actual people responsible for it.
When did he belittle the club?
no player is responsible? for playing pathetically? for dreadul mistakes a schoolboy would be embarrassed by? I never said Jose was great or had bought brilliantly but players have to stand up and take responsibility
just where are these stats of yours? and by the way, stats can prove anything you want them to. I suggest watching the game rather than the stats
also known as being blind to any other opinion than your own. lots like you in history
actually DDG has been poor by his usual standards too. but that can be down to the players as much as Jose
I dont think the board is the issue. They cater to the manager needs and wants, just as we expect from a supportive board.
Can you imagine a structure where the manager has no final say in player acquisition? Like rafa and the committee? Let's say we got poch and the board decided to do their own shopping, how is that productive?
Nobody knows a player best than the manager at the end of the day, at the end of the day they're the one who designs the formation and utilize the player.
Like i said. Just because we hire a bad manager doesnt mean the board approach is wrong.
The best example is moyes and lvg where the board just buy as told. 3/4 of the purchase is a write off. This year the board decided a more tight control and veto stupid purchase, does it make us better? Nope.
Yes we need a football men, but not at the board level. The last time we follow a proper football man advice on strategic level (appointing moyes) didnt go well.
5 years ago everyone would agree saf made the best dof. Turns out his decision aren't always correct
We've jumped from 18 clean sheets last season to 1 so far this season. We're only 3 goals away from conceding the same amount as last year. Dalot is the only change to our personal and he's barely played. It's all due to coaching IMO.
Zidane and Pogba are very different players. He doesn't fit the #10 playmaker mould either. Yea he needs runners around him like Kante, Herrera and Matuidi but that alone doesn't mean he will shine.
Make you 100% right. You have made some real valid points when you reflect on the psychology of Jose. We have heard things publicly said that in my lifetime I've not heard any manager talk about players or the club they manage aside from after they had left it. The list is endless and whilst I still love the club, Im done allowing it to taint my life by being angry whilst this man is here. I'm hoping that when he's left we still have some talented players like Pogba, Martial and DDG than a load of so called passionate ones that just run around a lot to show it. The pool of good players is shallow and lose them, it's not easy to replace them. The biggest thing now in the transfer market isn't buying, it's fight to keep your best players. All I'm going to say to people is be careful what you wish for cause you might actually get it.
The Zidane-Pogba talks wind me up so much. Pogba isn't as talented as Zidane, he isn't as complete as Zidane was and Zidane is arguably an all time great. As long as people continue to make these stupid comparisons they will get upset about "under performances".
Agreed. I wasn't the one who brought zidane into the discussion though even if i do believe Pogba is incredibly talented himself but is not really fulfilling it as yet.
Yep. I don't know if Jose doing it on purpose but he always gains sizable amount of cult followers everywhere he goes. May be he just does it subconsciously who knows but creating that "us vs them" mentality is the exact reason he's never stayed for long.
Not everyone want to listen to his crap, people just want to watch football. If we want drama, there's Netflix. Last summer some of our "fans" wanted to sell Martial because Jose said he went AWOL when his wife giving birth. Jesus.
Pogba is just another inflated ego that he doesn't want to deal with. Such an easy target for Jose to do his "things"
Or a reversion to the mean? I’d imagine our goals conceded this season are close to the xG conceded last season. Better finishing from the opposition and a dip in form from DdG has seen to that.
Which is not to say that coaching isn’t the issue. Just that the luck which hid those flaws has run out.
I only quoted you because it was the last post with the comparison, like you said they are very different players and we are comparing on older Zidane too because Zidane developed his world class attributes in Italy at 24-25 years old, it's the influence of Lippi and players like Deschamps that are partially credited for his growth.
Nah, I don't buy that. De Geas form dipped slightly but to concede almost the same amount of goals in 38 games from 15 is an alarm bell. That tells you that not only De Gea but the entire team is responsible for the defense completely falling apart. That requires more than 3/4 players to have a slump in form as it means our keeper, all of our defense and our DMs are at fault and going through bad form. That's not a coincidence.
Couple that with our misfiring attack and it all points back to our strategy/coaching. I watch us play and I have no idea what we're meant to be, we have no identity other than we're lazy.
Weird statement. We're coached by the same guy last year.
Not necessarily true; the backroom staff have changed.
Yeah those stats that prove he's been our best player in the Jose era . And I do watch all the games.
Tweet— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet— Twitter API (@user) date
Separate names with a comma.