Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Jacky Quacky, Apr 21, 2017 at 01:09.
Yup, based on absolutely nothing.
I really hope that is not true because that is something I can not respect.
Are you actually that naive? All of Jose's teams have excellent injury records and look extremely fit throughout the season for a reason. That poster you quoted is something else when it comes to footballing knowledge, so I wouldn't take him seriously.
Well I did start out with I really hope it is not true.
Not nothing. Based on bias against Jose.
Sounds promising and I really hope Luke's got it now..
Mou doesn't demand his players to be perfect and to make no mistakes but he wants to see the spirit and commitment. That's what all his interviews about Rashford are about and players like Shaw and Martial need to show him the same to get trusted and secure their future under Mou.
Yes it will be a surprise, but not because it's taking a while but that he's actually finding his feet back in football. It's a mental block issue and it's even still early to say Jose has helped him overcome it. As things stand, Shaw's been forced by Jose to push himself beyond what he was settling for since his injury. I would say Shaw is at least showing he's in a good direction.
Well, exactly. Your first post in this thread was arguing this is primarily about telling a story to the press. Far more likely that he's using the press to tell a story to Shaw. Which you acknowledge in this post tbf. A manager like Mourinho will be utterly obsessed about winning football games and everything he does or says will be with that goal in mind.
Can you name a player he's managed whose future career was affected by playing through pain? They've all had long successful careers from what I can see.
We do get to know after they have left (or after he has left).
Interesting thing is, apart from KDB, I struggle to remember any of the young lads he let go, complain much about Jose. Even Lukaku said some nice things about him earlier this year or so.
I can think of a list of key players under Jose who played or are still playing well into their 30s. I can't think of even one name who retired 'early' that could prove Jose jeopardized their career.
He looked leaner, fitter and faster last night than at any other point this season. Bodes well for him and us. Positionally a bit off from time to time but offensively he was good, his trademark underlapping (if that's even a word) created some nice chances, a pity Lingard didn't connect better with Shaw's cross 'cause that would've been a really good goal.
I'm going out on a limb here and predict Shaw will be our first choice left back next season going all Ashley Cole on us.
I noticed that too, Shaw seems to not moving normally during the last game. After that, no wonder he seems to focus more on defense than attacking. That aside, Shaw played well imo, superb attacking - he's always a threat, and good enough defending. Glad they've make up professionally.
My opinion on José's attitude to injuries has been formed over many years. He does pressure players to either play through the pain of an injury or better yet keep it quiet if they are injured. He expects his players to run until their legs are little, bloody stumps.
When he last won the league with Chelsea I recall him publicly thanking Hazard and Costa for both taking pain killing injections to get them through games. Personally I feel that if you're in that much pain then it's your body telling you not to place it under more strain, being pressured into hiding that injury is not healthy for that player.
Roy Keane spoke about his opinion on players afraid to reveal injuries to Clough in his book, Clough wouldn't talk to injured players and wouldn't let them onto the training field.
“I was conditioned to think that not playing if you weren’t 100% fit was a sign of weakness, and that you should be strong and play when you were injured,” “What we see as heroic, I think now is probably weakness.”
I couldn't agree more, players have a short career as it is, if they want to play as long as they can then listening to their body is one way to stay healthy.
Can't remember which Chelsea player recently said José wouldn't even speak with injured players and treated them like they weren't part of the team. Apparently one of the reasons José and Hazard's relationship fell apart last season was because Hazard refused to play with a hip injury despite pressure from Mourinho.
I think Luke and Chris were made an example of early this season to lay down the law to the squad, basically saying that if they aren't willing to sacrifice themselves or risk further injury then they're not a player José can trust.
Shaw was excellent last night, for 120mins. Very impressed, long may it continue. Jose really seems to have lit a fire under his ass.
I suppose it's the type of wear and tear that'll effect players late in their career as Keane said he looks back on giving in to the pressure to play carrying injuries with regret.
José is obviously only concerned with winning during the few years he ends up staying at a club, he doesn't care about that players health or future career prospects and he could argue that it's not his job to. However when he openly criticised the trained medical department at Chelsea for treating a player he went too far and it showed in how it ended for him at Chelsea.
I do recall criticism for him leaving Oscar on the pitch after a heavy blow to the head, then selecting him in the match day squad 3 days later despite the FA concussion guidelines requiring a 6 day rest.
So, in answer to my question, you can't think of anyone with long term health consequences thanks to playing under Mourinho. That's what I thought.
But what about that one player from Chelsea who he can't remember and Roy Keane quotes?
Well it was a stupid question wasn't it? How would I ever be in a position to attribute players specific injury problems to Mourinho's treatment of them?
I feel I showed the basis for my informed opinion on José's attitude to injured players in quite sterling fashion actually
It was John Terry if you're actually interested in talking about football on a football forum instead of contributing nothing
"If you picked up a knock and missed a day’s training, he’d come in and he wouldn’t speak to you. He’d walk straight past you on the treatment table"
I had him as my man of the match. I don't think Rashford had an outstanding performance at all - yet he wins it.
I think Shaw showed a little bit of the reason we bought him. Those nice cutting through runs at goal. Kept his side of the the pitch clean. Would have like to see a heat map of it all.
What is that quote supposed to show?
Its a good thing the manager doesn't support a culture of making the most of knocks. You want him to kiss their boo boos better or something?
Thought he looked so nervous in the first half last night but got to give him credit for sticking at it and putting in a shift! I probably prefer Young there still at the minute but that should do him the world of good.
What, a bit of cramp?
Give your head a wobble.
The fella broke his leg at such a young age. It's going to play on his mind. Elite football is not about talent (they all have it) but mental strength. He needs to develop it. Good luck to him because He had a major major trauma in his life and I hope he proves to himself that he can get over it.
Who claimed our club has a problem with this? He obviously seems to think all injuries are players "making the most of a knock" by your logic if he treats John Terry "Leader, Legend" Mr Chelsea himself that way.
José made Terry his captain at Chelsea for years so he obviously trusts him too which makes it all the more confusing.
So, John Terry who will leave leave Chelsea this year at the age of 36 and who played for Mourinho for 6 years then? I think he's perhaps an illustration of lack of long term effects.
We all know that top managers ask top players to play injured. Ronaldo played injured for months in 2007/8 even though he and SAF knew he needed an ankle operation. Valencia has done the same. It happens all the time.
It's not about them hiding injuries, it's about them doing what they can to get back on the pitch. His view is that some players do, and others don't, and that his attention as a manager is on the ones who can play that week not the ones who say they can't.
He clearly has all the talent to be a top left back. We would be truly mental to let a 21 year old with that much potential go because of fitness issues and mentality at such a young age.
They obviously thought it was more than a bit of cramp as they were taking Shaw off, don't forget the heavy impact to the leg he got when he kicked their defender when trying a shot.
You posted a lot without saying much. Player playing with knocks is very common. This season Klopp question Sturridge's mentality when it comes to injuries, that player have to differentiate between serious pain and pain. Maybe same applies to many of our players who miss a lot because of knocks.
This. Winners need to have this attitude.
Our players definitely have had an overall mentality issue. Jose os definetely the man to fix this but it doesn't come without risk. Some players won't have a winner attitude despite all their skill.
Thanks for the reply, and good post it is too.
No doubt the best managers around want to get their best players on the pitch and the extent to which they'll go to make it happen prob would include playing injured players. Whether it's the players own motivation to play injured, being convinced by the manager or feeling forced to play is another question.
I think that's where José has to be careful. He seems to try bully the players into playing while carrying injuries with his comments in the press about wanting to know which players he can "trust", and obviously if he doesn't trust you then you won't be getting picked, injured or not. I can see how it creates a conflict of interests for a player if the qualified medical staff are advising him he's not available but the player knows José's attitude to it.
There's definitely an element of risk to publicly calling out players declaring themselves injured as he did with Luke and Chris earlier this season. If you make it clear to the squad you couldn't care less about their physical well-being then you risk a repeat of driving a wedge between yourself and the players.
I thought Shaw was mostly pretty poor, so I don't get the praise he's getting here. I think it's just wishful thinking, people who want him to do well for some reason so they grasp onto any half decent thing he does. He doesn't appear to be a very clever footballer. I don't see him surviving here and I'd be happy enough to see him sold.
Do a Gareth Bale with him and convert him to a winger ha
You made a claim and couldn't back it up. In a football forum talking about football. My contribution is pointing that up.
I thought he did well, aside from a 15-20 minute period after Rojo went off when he looked unsure whether to keep going forwards or hang back protecting Blind, and kind of did neither. Not played a lot of football the last couple of years though so can forgive him that. With Darmians upturn in form last couple of games, and Shaw back in the reckoning, our poblem LB issue might be sorted for the run in.
In fact I think you'll find I was spot on in my reference, even if I didn't attribute the quote to Terry immediately.
You keep pointing up champ.
Actually think he'll do better as LW than LB.
He's good going forward but defensively he's not that great (yet at least).
He was miles behind the others and played the winger onside for their goal. And still far too many instances of his winger crossing the ball in unchallenged.
And I actually don't think that's related to his injury.
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