1. We are delighted to have been nominated for Best Forum in The Football Blogging Awards. You can vote for us on their website here and via twitter here. You can read the caf thread here. Thanks to anyone who votes for us.
    Dismiss Notice

Mourinho: "When a player plays bad it is half me and half the player"

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by haram, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Oct 29, 2018
    #1

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    10,047
    ..."when a player plays well it is half me and half the player".

    I am posting this because people only seem to want to post things which make it seem like Mourinho only takes responsibility for the positive things that happen, and that he gives no credit to the players. It is also only those type of tweets which circulate social media, especially by people who want to see the club fail (I am referring to opposition fans and 'journalists').



    1:54

    These parts are cut out and not mentioned by people on purpose.
  2. Oct 29, 2018
    #2

    Borden Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,930
    Location:
    Are you watching closely?
    Who's to blame if the entire team plays badly?
  3. Oct 29, 2018
    #3

    Reddy Rederson Full Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2018
    Messages:
    2,509
    :lol: Can’t even give an inch.
  4. Oct 29, 2018
    #4

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    10,047
    Wonderful first reply.
  5. Oct 29, 2018
    #5

    El Zoido Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,029
    Location:
    UK
    Ed Woodward.
  6. Oct 29, 2018
    #6

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,500
    Location:
    London
    Clever comment, only if you could use the intelligence to find the answer.
  7. Oct 29, 2018
    #7

    100 binary bot

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,686
    Location:
    HELLO
    As culpable as I believe Mourinho is in not letting some players play through bad spells whilst giving others plenty of breaks - you can never put the blame solely on the manager, especially when there are questions about effort.
  8. Oct 29, 2018
    #8

    Borden Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,930
    Location:
    Are you watching closely?
    I don't think anyone does, but he's been here 2 1/2 years now. If there are still issues with this team (and there evidently are) then that's largely his responsibility. Does that excuse lack of effort/professionalism on the part of the players? Not remotely. But when performances and results are shite over a longer period of time the manager is usually the one held accountable, for good reason.
  9. Oct 29, 2018
    #9

    Ace of Spades Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    2,658
    I would say that if a player plays badly, then that is on the player. Its the team performance that is on the manager. The tactics, style of play, the cohesion and being able to play as a team rather than disjointed individuals is all on the manager.
  10. Oct 29, 2018
    #10

    abdo99 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,249
    The performance of the team is always more important than any individual. A collective team performance makes it easier for the individuals to shine. A disjointed team performance can make even the best of players below par.
    Ultimately over a longer period of time it's the manager who takes the responsibility for the team performance but it's the players who make the difference in the decisive moments. Missed chances for example are the players fault but if we're not creating opportunities like we've seen in many many games that's the managers fault.
    That's how I see it.
  11. Oct 29, 2018
    #11

    unitedbhoy Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,183
    Location:
    Paddy's Pub with the gang
    Surely all of the bolded is directly related to how well an individual performs?
  12. Oct 29, 2018
    #12

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,500
    Location:
    London
    People complicate football a lot. Like you've said, if everyone performs well, the team performs well. If a certain number of individuals don't perform well, it'll obviously have a direct impact on the team i.e. the team doesn't play well.

    What people seem to not want to acknowledge:

    when the team plays well: its because of the players and manager.
    when the team plays poorly: its because of the players and manager.
  13. Oct 29, 2018
    #13

    Kapardin Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Messages:
    9,102
    Location:
    Chennai, India
    Most of the time he deflects, so it's not like the criticisms were unfounded. This is literally the first time he admits his own fault, so credit to him.
  14. Oct 29, 2018
    #14

    abdo99 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,249
    the other way round .if the team plays well everyone can play well. Contrast the 1st half of Newcastle game to the 2nd half. 1st half of Chelsea game to the 2nd half. We pushed higher up the pitch and this allowed us more opportunities to score.
  15. Oct 29, 2018
    #15

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    19,353
    If tactics weren't important why bother having a manager? Just sent out 11 good players and tell them to do their best.

    At the highest level selecting the right team / tactics can be vital. Most players play to the managers instructions, even if they feel it's incorrect.
  16. Oct 29, 2018
    #16

    Varun Moderator Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    43,621
    Location:
    Mumbai
    Can we blame him completely for 2 players playing bad and sack him for it?
  17. Oct 29, 2018
    #17

    Bastian Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    6,359
    Many would probably think about Martial purely in attacking terms, if he's good in the final third then he's good full stop. Where Mourinho demands defensive responsibilities of all his players, much more so when the team he's got is not top class at the back. Good to hear that he's happier with Martial these days. He's definitely improved in his tactical awareness.

    Nice thread on here for a change. Probably too positive to the manager so I expect it to be merged into the anti-Mourinho thread soon enough.
  18. Oct 29, 2018
    #18

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    24,562
    Location:
    Egypt
    How will the team plays well without the players play well ? Team = players I mean.
  19. Oct 29, 2018
    #19

    abdo99 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,249
    Team is one thing and 11 players is another thing. It doesn't matter which 11 players you have if they don't play as a team.
  20. Oct 29, 2018
    #20

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    24,562
    Location:
    Egypt
    And if the 11 players didn't play well, or certain players in key areas didn't play well, the team won't play well either. I don't see much separation between both. What you're meaning about having a coherent system is another thing different. Having a coherent system will cover for some players, but even the best system depends on certain key players in certain areas that if they didn't play well everything will get exposed.
  21. Oct 29, 2018
    #21

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    13,605
    Some people don't want to give Jose an inch of leeway and are on his back, every single second.
  22. Oct 29, 2018
    #22

    Borden Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,930
    Location:
    Are you watching closely?
    Poor Mourinho :(

    He's the highest paid manager in the world, forgive me for not conjuring up too much sympathy for him. I'll get off his back when he does his damn job and gets his team to perform to an acceptable standard.
  23. Oct 29, 2018
    #23

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,186
    In case of Martial, Shaw it's 100 percent on Mourinho. Martial changed nothing and Mourinho is making it as if Martial took 1.5 years to understand his role which is obviously self serving bollocks.
  24. Oct 29, 2018
    #24

    RedDevil@84 Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9,943
    So what happened in the Juve first half? Did the manager ask everyone to give Juventus 70% possession and sit back or did the players not do well to take possession, so they were forced to keep falling back.
  25. Oct 29, 2018
    #25

    Ish Lights on for Luke

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    23,380
    Location:
    Where fans' expectations are too high
    That quote obviously has a lot of truth to it. But if the manager has been here for over 2 years and has had backing to tweak the squad into his own players and tactics, and the team or individuals are still struggling to perform, then the buck ultimately stops with the manager, IMO.
  26. Oct 29, 2018
    #26

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,186
    But when the team plays poorly for so long without the manager changing a single bit and getting huge decisions wrong, then it's only the managers' fault.
  27. Oct 29, 2018
    #27

    Di Maria's angel Captain of Moanchester United

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,500
    Location:
    London
    Said instructions are normally negative and poorly executed. Hence, why we're shit (most of the time).
  28. Oct 29, 2018
    #28

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,186
    If two players are playing bad despite the manager's support, the obvious decision from the manager would be to bench the said players and let others play(that's why we have a huge squad), if the squad options are not good enough then buy players.
  29. Oct 29, 2018
    #29

    redIndianDevil Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,186
    If you make flair players like Sanchez, Martial etc do donkey work then the manager should be responsible for it too. A good manager must be flexible enough to suit his tactics to the players available.
  30. Oct 29, 2018
    #30

    Nanotron Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,036
    Location:
    Ireland
    He is happier with Martial because he scored the goals to give him some breathing space. Im his hour of need. He is lucky though because if he had his way martial wouldnt have been here to do that.
  31. Oct 29, 2018
    #31

    wolvored Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    4,116
    wasnt there somewhere in the press end of last week that said he was under orders to stop slagging the players off?
  32. Oct 29, 2018
    #32

    WensleyMU New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2018
    Messages:
    741
    Think really really hard about it and I am sure you can figure it out...

    The clue is in the word "team"
  33. Oct 29, 2018
    #33

    Micky Targaryen Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Messages:
    615
    Location:
    Malaysia
    And we have some of the highest paid players in the world. What's your point?
  34. Oct 29, 2018
    #34

    Slik New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    When the team plays poorly. It’s the coach. We just saw Lopetegui sacked today and some of you still don’t understand how a coach is responsible for the team poor performance. Real Madrid would have sacked Mourinho ages ago.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2018
  35. Oct 29, 2018
    #35

    Seven Seas Sardines Full Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,150
    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    I think you've answered your own question.
  36. Oct 30, 2018
    #36

    PieCrust Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    1,108
    Honestly, I just don't care what Jose says any more. He's a lame duck and imo got an unfair shake this summer by the board not backing him. I'll always like Jose as a manager, but he isn't what he used to be. He clearly cannot get the best out of this squad, while although not the most talented in the league, is much better than what we've seen over the past 2-3 years.
  37. Oct 30, 2018
    #37

    Denis' cuff Full Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,386
    Location:
    here
    As Fergie always emphasised, you must always impose yourself as no.1 boss. No argument. Ever. I don’t think Jose was far from that in his heyday but events of player power at Madrid and Chelsea have undermined his confidence to impose himself. His authority is compromised and thus his confidence also. Maybe his ship has sailed.
  38. Oct 30, 2018
    #38

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    13,605
    Well, the Madrid coach lost 5 games in 6. Jose has not done that.
    Furthermore, by getting 2nd place and also winning 2 trophies, Jose has bought some goodwill with the club. Had Jose arrived in his first season and been as bad as the Madrid manager, he too, would have been fired in his first season.
  39. Oct 30, 2018
    #39

    sunama Baghdad Bob

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    13,605
    You think that this squad could've won the league last season, under a different manager?
    IMO, getting 2nd (with this squad) was a good achievement. We got beat by a Man City team who broke several records.
    This season has been terrible and Jose does deserve to take flack for that.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  40. Oct 30, 2018
    #40

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    24,562
    Location:
    Egypt
    This Madrid squad had won 3 CLs in a row.

    What did our squad do to prove they don't share a part in the problem ?