Mourinho's Post Match comments and the questions they raise

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by King7Eric, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Apr 16, 2018
    #1

    King7Eric Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Jose Mourinho: “I think we were deservedly punished because we were masters in complication. Everything was complicated. Players they didn’t want or couldn’t play simple. Everything was slow, one more flick, trick, ball lost, no fluidity in our football.”

    Watching the game yesterday i felt the same. Again and again we were going for fancy build up play, the one-twos at the edge of the box, dummies and so on instead of trying to simply get the ball into the box. The best chance we created was when Matic crossed onto Lukaku's head which produced that great save from Foster and yet there was very little of this yesterday. We were trying to play through WBA instead of trying to take them on through the sides.

    Now seeing Jose's comments its clear he didn't approve of this approach and wanted a more direct approach of attack. But this begs the question then that why did he start with Mata and Herrera and bring on Lingard who excel at this short interplay and quick transitions from back to front aren't what they are best at.

    This is not the first time Jose has had a go at his players from trying this fancy build up play (in his words complicated build up). So if he doesn't like this approach then he has two options-
    1. Coach his players in the attacking sense he feels is best.
    2. Buy players who play the direct football he seems to demand.

    If he has been trying Option 1 and the players can't or haven't responded then he needs to get rid of them which is basically what Option 2 implies. But he has again and again reiterated that he does not want to buy any forwards or wingers this summer, the latest instance being the presser just before the WBA match.

    So I can't help but wonder what is the plan going forward? Will he keep on going on in the hope that Mata and Lingard will suddenly excel at direct play? Or does he think that Lukaku will develop a better first touch that will allow us to play through sides? Because at the moment we don't consistently play to the strengths of any of our attackers. If we want to play a direct fast transitioning game the combination best suited to that is Lukaku-Sanchez-Rashford. If we want to play through sides then Martial-Mata-Sanchez-Lingard is best suited to it. We need to decide what our approach is and pick the combination of attackers according to that. We cannot keep putting out a mish-mash of different styles of players and hope they will work out.

    With all the focus on defenders and midfield, I still think Jose has some massive decisions to make in the attack before we achieve the consistency to win league titles.
  2. Apr 16, 2018
    #2

    Bobcat Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,242
    Location:
    Behind the curtains, leering at the neighbors
    True. Some of the best football we have played this year has come from quick counters and incisive passing, not the (shitty) tiki taka we seemed to try yesterday. I know that Pogba, Mata and Sanchez love their chipped passes, but yesterday it was terrible ineffective due to how WBA were set up in defense.

    Not that this game matters in the grand scheme of things, but losing at home against a side that has won four games all year is fecking embarrassing
  3. Apr 16, 2018
    #3

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Messages:
    8,112
    I think he's just not happy in midfield and will address that firmly in the summer. He thinks the middle of the park is broadly quite shite and they can't bring the ball up to the attackers much.

    Can't help the "one extra flick" line was a reference to Pogba but can't be sure. Sanchez had a poor second half and Mata had a poor game in general too.
  4. Apr 16, 2018
    #4

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    23,408
    Somethin' ain't right
  5. Apr 16, 2018
    #5

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    15,426
    Those comments were blatantly aimed at Pogba because despite how poorly the rest of them played he was the only one prancing around doing flicks and shit. My concern with what he said yesterday was he sensed complacency in some of them following the derby win and if that's the case why play them? Jose got the formation wrong anyway yesterday (3 man midfield v West Brom at home WTF?) but if the likes of Pogba were thinking the job was done by beating City then send a rocket up his arse and drop him.

    I never took Jose for being too scared to make the big calls but if he sensed mentally some of them thought all they had to do is turn up yesterday and they'd beat West Brom then he should have had the balls to drop those individuals completely
  6. Apr 16, 2018
    #6

    King7Eric Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Barcelona
    They were all poor. At least Pogba seemed to be making some things happen but Sanchez and Mata, especially after Sanchez moved to the right were trying the same routine again and again. A short one-two, then wait for Valencia to overlap, who will cut back and give them back the ball and then a hopeless attempt to cut through the WBA defense which ultimately led to them clearing or a miscontrol letting the ball go out.
  7. Apr 16, 2018
    #7

    montpelier Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8,150
    I think he might be hoping for this.
  8. Apr 16, 2018
    #8

    DeGea Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    Messages:
    180
    Location:
    Underneath your bed
    I think he is annoyed that the players are too "fancy" for lack of a better word. They are not being efficient. I believe this is partly due to Pogba's effect on the team, and what I mean by this is his flamboyance rubs off on everyone else. It permeates the dressing room if you have one player who is flamboyant, cocky albeit in a good way, because then what happens is you have all these guys who might not play like Pogba naturally, but they get carried away.

    It's like having your son/daughter hanging out with the wrong crowd, their behaviour can start to change.

    I still believe in Jose as he is a wise coach, the players just need to stop fecking about and grow up mentally. There is a lot of skill and talent in this team, but not enough maturity, wisdom and common sense. We need more of the players to start behaving like Carrick, Keane, Scholes, Giggs rather than like Pogba, Lingard, etc.

    They need to be more serious about achieving stuff.
  9. Apr 16, 2018
    #9

    Jacko21 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,898
    Location:
    Manchester
    One of his responses to a question about why the players struggled was 'ask them' - that just puts distance between him and the players, which usually never ends well.

    But you get the sense he's at a loss as to why he has a squad that can't find it within themselves to be up for every single game. Mourinho is far from blameless, but there has to be some kind of collective responsibility. If you're not actively working on making changes during the week, then it stands to reason you're going to be sh*t come the weekend.

    The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. In our case it's players cutting inside, looping a speculative ball into the box and hoping for a goal. It's driving everyone at OT crazy.
  10. Apr 16, 2018
    #10

    King7Eric Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Barcelona
    I'm sorry mate but the likes of Mata and Sanchez are seasoned professionals and I find it hard to believe that they will get carried away just trying to emulate Pogba. Its more likely that their games are suited to a different style than what the manager is demanding of them.
  11. Apr 16, 2018
    #11

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    16,598
    Location:
    Egypt
    Mourinho has been as criminal as the players yesterday. The set up we started the game with by playing 3 men midfield was terribly wrong and I said that before the game started, the Lingard sub was to correct that mistake but his other subs complicated the game even more and fecked us up. He deserves a 0/10 yesterday. Terrible, terrible tactics and set up.

    However, I have grown tired up of this arrogant mentality our players have. Once they win a big match or have some big performances they decide to sulk on the pitch as if they have the right to win without putting any efforts. The attitude of the players was absolutely shocking, even when 1-0 down no player was moving the ball fast or with any urgency. Our players aren't willing to put the same degree of efforts each game, which is fecking disgusting to see. So far Mourinho has failed to deal with that and he's clearly saying that in his post match comments, but if he's unable to keep the players focusing on each game he should share part of the blame for it as well.

    I'm a Jose fan, but yesterday he and his players should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves to serve such dross to the fans.
  12. Apr 16, 2018
    #12

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    16,987
    Maybe he need to coach them better then?

    He said himself he leaves his players to "go on the pitch and get on with it".

    Clearly they're trying to play their way, and Jose doesn't like it. MAKE THEM PLAY A DIFFERENT WAY THEN JOSE.
  13. Apr 16, 2018
    #13

    VP89 Pogba's biggest fan

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Messages:
    8,112
    I only watched the first half properly but Sanchez looked to constantly pick up the ball and try and drive towards players. He was obviously not as effective but I didn't see anyone else do that tbh let alone Pogba.
  14. Apr 16, 2018
    #14

    settembrini Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    2,017
    He's right. However if you don't coach your players how to attack then you can hardly be surprised when they attack badly.
  15. Apr 16, 2018
    #15

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    25,280
    Location:
    Birmingham
    He's a master at separating himself from any failure.
    Klopp has an absolute disaster of a midfield playing fluid football.
    Does he have two heads?
    I'm convinced 80% of this teams problems can be solved on the training pitch.
    We constantly look like we are playing together for the first time.
    I have not seen a single improvement in this team, in possession of the ball in two years.
    The despite spending £300m.
    The "ask them " is wearing thing.
    You're the coach.
  16. Apr 16, 2018
    #16

    King7Eric Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Exactly. Some of the decisions were inexplicable yesterday. After we went down yesterday, he bought on Rashford and we were playing what can only be described as some sort of 3-5-2 with Matic flanked by Lindelof and Smalling and Valencia and Martial (of all people) as pushed up Wing Backs. There was no CM to recycle possession once the ball was cleared from their box and Martial was tasked with whipping in crosses from the left flank. If that was the plan then we were better off leaving Young there as he is better at whipping in those crosses. Martial needed to be closer to the box. It was an absolute shambles tactically.
  17. Apr 16, 2018
    #17

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    25,280
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Not a single Liverpool midfielder would get into our side...not a single one.
  18. Apr 16, 2018
    #18

    King7Eric Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    693
    Location:
    Barcelona
    Well in the 2nd half the Sanchez-Mata-Valencia trio down the right drove me nuts. I have no idea what they were attempting to do. Instead of trying to go on the outside and whip a cross in Sanchez again and again was attempting one-twos with Mata.
  19. Apr 16, 2018
    #19

    Frings Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Canada
    Another Mourinho thread. Well done!


    I think more damning is the claim he made about our players letting the City win into their heads, that tells a horrifying story as to the mentality of a lot of them compared to those at City. Even more so, it shows that when they put the effort in, they can play at an outstanding level against anyone in the league.

    We had enough to beat West Brom yesterday, maybe three in midfield was overkill but Pogba in the first half was well advance of the other two midfielders, I thought the point of Herrera playing was to press the Brom defenders from the front, helping us camp them in their half. Most of the players were happy jogging with the ball, and showing fancy skills than getting it forwards and trying to move their defenders around.

    So, It is a combination of both options; Our attacking play is not very good, or too basic. I can tell how we play in most games; nobody runs off the ball, no quick one-twos to release players. Now, players are not supposed to be robots, and they should sometimes improvise as the game progresses, but our players never do this. Sanchez yesterday didn't for once go on the outside, Mata kept passing it in front of the defence, Lukaku chose the wrong game to become a statue, and Pogba was more concerned with dribbling their midfielders than passing to his teammates. Getting players in who are thinkers and able to make right decisions is imperative too, but in the current transfer climate, it will be difficult getting the ones we need so it is more important that we develop the right systems with the ones that we have with any additions being a bonus.
  20. Apr 16, 2018
    #20

    el3mel Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2016
    Messages:
    16,598
    Location:
    Egypt
    It seems there's no inbetween regarding Mourinho. When he gets his tactics in a game, he gets it really, really bad ! and the opposite when he gets it right.
  21. Apr 16, 2018
    #21

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,886
    Mourinho never wants to take any responsibility for the defeats. When we win it's all about him. When we lose he absolves himself of blame. Either things are too complicated or we are scared to play or we lack personality or its because of football heritage. He is a master of deflecting blame away from himself. I think mentally a lot of our players are weak. We always start games slowly. Too lackadaisical and it sets the tone for the whole game. We need to concede goals to wake up but I could tell clearly after 10 minutes we might get caught out and we did. The general lack of direction or attacking identity is on Mourinho. What is he doing to improve the situation? Our problems are very clear. He knows what they are but to me he seems like he doesn't know how to solve them which is a worry. He likes to point fingers at the players but the manager needs to give the players are gameplan for breaking down teams like West Brom.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  22. Apr 16, 2018
    #22

    Kostur Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    25,046
    Location:
    Poland, Kraków
    The flicks/tricks part was what annoyed the shit out of me yesterday, pinnacle of it being ~70th minute when first Martial does some stupid flick and loses the ball and then Young does exactly the same shit 30 seconds later. Pogba was leading the clown race yesterday for me, so much unnecessary shit from him again, it's like he's finally understanding that if he's not showboating, he's pretty much playing at his best and then his brain resets and he's back to the annoying old self.

    I mean, the flicks, tricks and other crap is fine when you're 2-3 up and you want to try different plays against the already-dead opponent, not when you're 0-0 or even worse 0-1 and had merely 3-4 shots on fecking target. Really makes you wonder what those mentality/motivational seasions Mou was talking about during the presser, it's like he's seen that we've got complacent after the City match and it just continued to the WBA shitshow.
  23. Apr 16, 2018
    #23

    VP Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    10,981
    He's a self-serving coward refusing to accept that he is failing his basic duty as a manager: getting his players to perform.
  24. Apr 16, 2018
    #24

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    14,284
    Location:
    New York
    Results wise this has been a good season but, comments like this is why I am sick of Mourinho. He always tries to distance himself from the team's poor performances.
  25. Apr 16, 2018
    #25

    Mickfoley New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Messages:
    452
    Carrick would've been better than Matic, Herrera or Pogba yesterday because of his ability to play drilled passes into the attackers. Those passes were available yesterday but no one drilled the ball. Pogba just took too much time with tha ball, same for Matic who took his time before passing to anyone to his left, Herrera again with brainless back passes when he had options available in front of him.
    How's Strootman doing btw? Has he fully recovered from ACL and back to his best?
  26. Apr 16, 2018
    #26

    spiriticon Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,454
    This is absolutely the problem. There's something wrong with the way Mourinho is mentally preparing players for a game. There's no emotion, no fire, no nothing. It's almost as if he says 'You're shit hot lads, you'll win even in 3rd gear" in the teamtalk. I don't get it.

    I genuinely believe we have quality in our squad. But more often than not, apart from De God who turns up every game, we have only about 2 outfield players who turn up for a game each week mentally. And it's a different 2 players each week, which makes it frustrating since we can't really pin down anybody.

    Mourinho needs a better teamtalk.
  27. Apr 16, 2018
    #27

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,886
    Absolutely. We like to ridicule Liverpool's midfielders but you can see that they work on their shape and movement in training. Klopp has managed to get a midfield that includes Henderson to a CL semi final. They don't have any stars in their team. No real football heritage. What have Liverpool done in Europe for the last 8/9 years? And then you see our tactics and performances against Sevilla with a much superior team... it gets me angry thinking about it now. We have a really talented squad with some top footballers that I find it difficult to see how clueless we look at times on the pitch. You don't need World beaters in every position. Some direction and coaching is needed at this level.
  28. Apr 16, 2018
    #28

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    25,280
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Klopp has a midfield of Hendsrson, Can and Milner plating good football.
    Then some numpty has the gall to tell me Mourinho doesn't have the players.
    Do one.
  29. Apr 16, 2018
    #29

    roonster09 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    10,554
    Exactly. He takes 0 responsibility and like you said, coaches with even poor/average players have made their team play very attacking football and also play as a unit.
  30. Apr 16, 2018
    #30

    The Firestarter Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    5,265
    Usually I'd blame Mourinho, but this group of players should be beating West fecking Brom comfortably , even without a coach and if it's the first time they play together.
  31. Apr 16, 2018
    #31

    breakout67 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    5,592
    Why do some people not realize that you don't get attacking football with Mourinho. That's not how he manages. If we get better players it will be to make the team function better, not to play more expansive.

    If we had a proper right side in that game we would have scored 1 or 2 goals and closed out the game, it would still be boring but we'd get the win.

    We will never play consistent attacking football under him. If we spend a boat load in the transfer window, we will have better results, but you'll still have issues with entertainment.
  32. Apr 16, 2018
    #32

    Lentwood Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,880
    Location:
    West Didsbury, Manchester
    I think we have a couple of issues that all contribute to our slow, clunky, complicated build up play;

    1. Pogba - Paul Pogba is one of the most technically gifted footballers on this planet. The problem is he never, ever tires of trying to prove it in the wrong areas. Every time he receives the ball, he wants 10 touches. This allows teams to get set and any Premier League manager will tell you once teams are set, they are incredibly difficult to break down.

    2. Full-Backs - Valencia is steady at RB but his attacking play is downright abysmal. So predictable. Every time he receives the ball one vs one against the opposition full back he either turns around and passes back or floats a harmless cross in with his left foot. Young isn't quite as bad but the fact remains that because he has to check back every time, our attacks have to be slowed down

    I'm torn between giving Pogba one more season and flogging him to the highest bidder. I want flair players at Utd but they have to be team players. The two full backs obviously need to be replaced
  33. Apr 16, 2018
    #33

    Decomposing In Paris Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2014
    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    Belfast
    Supports:
    United, & Coleraine FC
    Playing 3 in midfield isn't so that we flood the middle of the pitch, it's so that we dominate, with the intention of releasing Pogba and our fullbacks. It's no coincidence that Lindelof played yesterday, because he's supposed to be able to play the ball forward, and switch play... keep the pressure on. Unfortunately, Pogba was relatively ineffective, although his flicks and tricks didn't annoy me as much as his deliberate handball.

    I really think Giggs and Beckham (today, not at their peak) could have put in a cross yesterday that would have helped us beat West Brom yesterday. Swap them in for Sanchez and Mata and we wouldn't have lost anything from yesterday's performance.
  34. Apr 16, 2018
    #34

    abdo99 Full Member City Lover

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,886
    I think we need to start games with more anger. Get the crowd going. I feel that the dressing room is too happy sometimes. We are too nice on the field. We don't make teams suffer. We let them get a foothold in the game and gradually they get more confident as the game goes on. In spells we have shown our capabilities to play some exciting stuff but the consistency is not there. It was a really shocking performance yesterday. I wasn't expecting that. We looked drunk out there. We turned up yesterday expecting the game was done and that complacency needs to be cut out.
  35. Apr 16, 2018
    #35

    BusbyMalone Full Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,360
    He also said this:

    'I trust in my work' '
    I believe in myself' '
    I won eight championships' '
    I have lots of experience' '
    I won eight titles'
  36. Apr 16, 2018
    #36

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    52,738
    Location:
    The bottom bunk
    There's no 'I' in 'Mourinho'.
  37. Apr 16, 2018
    #37

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    93,823
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    But there is an "our"!
  38. Apr 16, 2018
    #38

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    52,738
    Location:
    The bottom bunk
    That's good enough for me, chief - give him another 10 years.
  39. Apr 16, 2018
    #39

    BusbyMalone Full Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,360
    *nods approvingly* That's so right...wait a minute!
  40. Apr 16, 2018
    #40

    pascell Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,769
    Location:
    Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
    The players just aren't intelligent enough. I struggle to fathom why after constantly doing the same attacking sequence, not one of our players thought 'this just isn't working, we need to change it up'.

    We desperately need leadership on that pitch, someone who's going to straighten things out when they're going wayward on the pitch.

    We also lack movement and width at the top of the pitch, too many times yesterday our wingers moved to the Middle of the pitch and didn't move out wise when it was blindingly obvious we needed to stretch the West Brom defence.