Napoli

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Suedesi, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. Nov 2, 2017

    Moonred Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    10,000
    Location:
    Virgo Supercluster
    I have never heard anyone or read anyone arguing that defensive football is the only winning football.
  2. Nov 2, 2017

    Theonas Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,869
    I must have imagined the comments that more or less go "would you rather play like Arsenal and lose?"
  3. Nov 2, 2017

    Moonred Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Messages:
    10,000
    Location:
    Virgo Supercluster
    That doesn’t mean it is the ‘only’ way unless you exaggerate your interpretations.
  4. Nov 2, 2017

    Velvet Revolver Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Inside Scholes's Brain
    The problem with these kinds of teams is that there is no plan B. If plan A does not work it becomes a desperation which most often ends up in disappointment. After a certain time, teams will figure out your tactics and just nullify you. City to a certain extent did exactly that. They did not try to outsmart them but instead defended well and just waited to strike at the right moment.
  5. Nov 2, 2017

    RooneyLegend Full Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,338
    Nah he's wrong. Callejon, the right back and Albiol are proper liabilities.
  6. Nov 2, 2017

    RooneyLegend Full Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,338
    City were being outplayed, Napoli got injuries and then city took over. City started the second better, then Napoli took over and then City scored the third just after Napoli had missed a clear chance. City didn't wait for anything, they just had the best part of the luck on the night.
  7. Nov 2, 2017

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    503
    Hysaj is definitely not a proper liability. Albiol and Callejon are probably the two of the weakest players on the starting XI; however, that does not mean that they are proper liabilities, it just means that they are not as individually talented as their team-mates.
  8. Nov 2, 2017

    RooneyLegend Full Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,338
    At the very highest level they are all liabilities. Callejon literally contributed nothing last night apart from missing the easiest chance of the match. Albiol was watching Koulibaly run a one man central defensive pairing. What's shameful about this all is that it really Isn't difficult to improve on their incompetence, no wonder their fans have a dislike for the club president.
  9. Nov 2, 2017

    Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    36,808
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    I do agree.
  10. Nov 2, 2017

    Leroy The Red Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    11,897
    Location:
    London
    Yeah you did imagine it.

    Not sure why you've gone off on this weird tirade. I don't think anyone even mentioned anything about defensive football being better or more effective in this thread, merely a few pointed out whilst Napoli look good going forward, they haven't taken care with the equally important defensive game and as such universal praise should maybe be drawn in a bit? I don't really understand why you've gone all supersonic hyperbole to be honest, don't think anything has warranted that.
  11. Nov 2, 2017

    Theonas Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,869
    Tirade? Two of those posts were a direct exchange with another poster. I think you're being a bit sensitive.
  12. Nov 2, 2017

    Keeps It tidy Hates Messi

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    15,124
    Location:
    New York
    They only conceded only 8 goals in 11 matches in Serie A. They were against a strong City side and they had to come out attacking.
  13. Nov 2, 2017

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    10,293
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    Napoli have been playing like that for 3 seasons now, they won 25, 26, and 10 out of 11 this season in the league...yeah, teams have figured out how to nullify their tactics :lol:
  14. Nov 2, 2017

    Sunspear17 Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2015
    Messages:
    349
    Supports:
    Chelsea
    Were Napoli this good the last couple seasons or just this season?
  15. Nov 2, 2017

    Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    36,808
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    They have always played very well under Sarri, but they have stepped up this season. I think the key has been to convert Mertens from winger to CF.
  16. Nov 2, 2017

    Sammyjunn Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    10,299
    Location:
    In Smalling's pocket (as every other person)
    He was a CF last season too.
  17. Nov 2, 2017

    Leroy The Red Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    11,897
    Location:
    London
    Their problem isn't defending against the teams whom they are superior to, it's more teams at their level or above. It's why they tend to fail in the CL and get pipped by Juve, they don't want to address the Albiol problem or the not having a proper defensive holding midfielder problem.
    Hmm, I dunno, you seemed to get a bit pissy about the whole defensive football/ "aesthetically pleasing" football debate.
  18. Nov 2, 2017

    SambaBoy Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,938
    Hysaj was good a few years back but he hasn't developed at all, and he is a weak link for Napoli at times. He's too slow against quick wingers, he would be excellent on the right of a 3 man defence providing Napoli could find a RWB who has better stamina and is quicker/more agile.

    They could do with another CB too to upgrade on Albiol.
  19. Nov 2, 2017

    moonunderthewater Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Messages:
    70
    Whoever out of City's group goes in the EL, are defo worth a little wager. Both Napoli and Shaktrar looked quality
  20. Nov 2, 2017

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    10,293
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    Holding mid isn't a problem since the inside mids are fast and physical enough and the team as a whole is really good at winning the ball back. They do have some trouble defending when pinned in their own half, but there's very few teams who are capable of forcing them on the back foot. They could upgrade many positions, the problem is it's not easy, and they don't have united's infinite money. They spent a lot on Maksimovic who so far as not worked out. Albiol is not great but is vital for them. Same goes for Callejon. The only players on that team who could be considered borderline world class are Insigne, Mertens and Hamsik. Maybe Koulibaly i guess, given the scarcity of quality CBs. Still when you compare player for player with a Manchester United or Tottenham(nevermind juventus or man city) you can see they're not a team full of great players. They don't have anything like a Kane or a Pogba
  21. Nov 3, 2017

    Infordin Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2016
    Messages:
    2,314
    Supports:
    Barcelona
    Why do you think that possession teams get figured out but teams that play counterattack or long balls will not?
  22. Nov 3, 2017

    Rawls You'll never find, that microfilm of mine

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    Messages:
    503
    I wouldn’t say that Hamsik is borderline World-Class based on this season’s form. If I had to pick three borderline World-Class players from Napoli, I’d go for Insigne, Ghoulam, and Jorginho. IMO, Jorginho is the best deep-lying playmaker in the world right now; if Sarri moves, he’ll probably move with him too.
  23. Nov 3, 2017

    NoPace Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,818
    I don't think you can call a RW who gets 52 goals in 148 league starts (and 12 sub appearances) at his club a failure. Not a lot of consistent double digit wing scorer and he's about to do it 4 times in 5 years. I'd be surprised if anyone but Messi, Cristiano, Neymar, Alexis and Bale has matched that in a top 5 league over the same period, though you could quibble and add that Griezmann and Muller would have if they'd been kept out wide.

    Point is, Callejon is durable, very productive and makes brilliant runs in behind to capitalize on Mertens and Insigne's playmaking ability. He's not the dribbler or creator most top wingers are but he's a fine player.

    Agreed on Albion. His being a bit weak is also an extra problem due to their size issues. I think they need to find a CB to replace him and then someone with some size in midfield who can still play their brand of football since they don't really have anyone to win headers and be physical and defend set pieces other than Koulibaly.

    Hysaj is alright but having someone who can really motor on the right would help with Callejon looking to come inside more.

    I'd add Reina to the list. He's fine but there is surely a bigger and quicker (at this point) keeper who can still pass a ball waiting to be bought.
  24. Nov 3, 2017

    NoPace Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,818
    I was thinking about that but I have to assume they'd start resting guys in the EL if they're in the title race, and then you're counting on guys like Milik, Ounas, Rog, Zelinski and Diawara and while there is a fair amount of talent there, Napoli's style doesn't allow a lot of room for errors or lack of cohesion. One or two bad passes in their own 3rd and they could be in trouble.
  25. Nov 3, 2017

    11101 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    6,542
    When they lose the ball possession teams tend to lose it in more dangerous positions than long ball/counter attack teams, it's that simple imo.
  26. Nov 3, 2017

    NoPace Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,818
    It's fullback, a young man's position. Someone will come along and show their quality even if we aren't just buying Danny Rose. Jorge at Monaco looks really good going forward (and is in the Brazil squad now at a position they're loaded at) and there are other promising young players peoples at clubs you can buy from that people seem to rate like Wendell, Alex Telles, Dalbert, Jonny, Tierney, Sessegnon, Grimaldo, Aaron Caricol and Tagliafico. No idea who Mourinho likes, obviously.
  27. Nov 3, 2017

    Aza Boy Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    481
    Location:
    Jakarta
    Too early to say Napoli will win scudetto. Roma,Juve, and Inter, even black horses like Atalanta and Lazio will be the barriers.

    If until year end, Napoli can still lead with good margin, perhaps they will. But i doubt it.

    Juve will bounce back, and Inter had a draw with them.
  28. Nov 3, 2017

    RooneyLegend Full Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,338
    Callejon is a small game player who disappears on the big stage, far from a fine player. In a match like the one against city, a passenger like him in those circumstances hurt the team. Napoli literally threaten through one side.
  29. Nov 3, 2017

    NoPace Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    4,818
    He definitely contributes far less to build up than Insigne, but there's a reason he scores so many goals. Times his runs brilliantly, always a threat for through balls and far post crosses. Was inches from winning the game after one of those perfectly timed runs, but Ederson made a good save.

    Hell, ESPN has him as having led all of Serie A in assists last year. He's not going to beat a man in his own half and start an attack like Insigne, so I agree he does hurt their buildup on that side (though Hamsik + Ghoulam are definitely better at linking play than Allan + Hysaj) compared to quicker wingers who can beat a man, but it's hard to hurt the team when you're literally leading the league in assists and 4th among wide players in goals (Balde, Salah and Insigne edged him out last year).

    He's their version of someone like Valencia for us. Productive without being top quality. Not the first player to replace but not one of their best 4 or 5 guys either.
  30. Nov 3, 2017

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    10,293
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    The guy scored twice in turin against juventus last season. He's far from useless in big games. And what he does off the ball is vital for them. Not just the runs, but the pressing and tracking back too

    Albiol is the leader of the defence. Replacing him means finding someone with the same skillset but better. If you haven't noticed, there's not very many good CBs out there atm, and fewer still with that skillset. And those few? Why would they choose Napoli?

    @11101 you missed his point...
  31. Nov 3, 2017

    11101 Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    6,542
    I don't think so.

    He's asking why do possession teams get figured out more easily, I don't think they do. What does getting figured out mean? Losing.

    Both styles can be figured out, but when it happens with a possession team it's more noticeable because they will often be losing the ball near their own goal and conceding chances. Once you work out how to press them effectively the whole system breaks down. With a counter/long ball team the ball is quickly moved up to the other end so when it's lost its much further away from danger and less likely to cost a goal.
  32. Nov 3, 2017

    Gentleman Jim It's absolutely amazing!

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2015
    Messages:
    1,918
    Location:
    Salford
    Supports:
    city
    You really don't rate him, do you? :)
    If not for a fine save by Ederson he would have put Napoli 3-2 up in that game.
  33. Nov 3, 2017

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    22,891
    Location:
    La-La-Land
    Their main problem is that they have a strong starting 11 but the quality of the squad players is nowhere near close. If one of their starting players misses games, they're in trouble and I'm sure they will now with the LB being injured
  34. Nov 3, 2017

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    17,491
    Do you mean Ghoulam?
  35. Nov 3, 2017

    giorno Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    10,293
    Supports:
    Real Madrid
    That was his point

    Btw, there's no such thing as a "possession" team being figured out. Teams can be figured out, regardless of how they play, because of the quality of their players. We expected PL sides to "figure out" Leicester all season, and then they never did. Because Leicester's players kept playing better than the opposition. Tactics are waaaay overrated on this board

    You want to know how Pochettino out-thought Zidane and put up a tactical masterclass? Spurs run 11.3 kms more than real madrid. It begins and ends with that
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  36. Nov 3, 2017

    Escobar Poster originally known as Michel04

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Messages:
    22,891
    Location:
    La-La-Land
    Yep. Let‘s see how they cope now
  37. Nov 3, 2017

    SqualorVictoria New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2013
    Messages:
    282
    Supports:
    City
    I don't even know what this lazy cliche of plan 'A' and 'B' means anymore. Like, why is this a specific case for such teams as Napoli and City? What was United's plan 'B' after they went behind against Huddersfield?
  38. Nov 3, 2017

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    718
    Location:
    Making analogies.
    Would still prefer a fullback from Calcio A, seeing as most teams in the league focus a lot more on the tactical side. Meaning that players gets a better understanding of the game.
    Unfortunately we choose a fullback from the Catenaccio era when we bought Darmian. And Alex Sandro would be the benchmark player.
  39. Nov 3, 2017

    Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Messages:
    36,808
    Supports:
    Arsenal
    Callejon shit? Very harsh. He has done very well since he joined Napoli.
  40. Nov 3, 2017

    Velvet Revolver Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Inside Scholes's Brain
    Its all about adapting the game. This plan A plan B thing is not only to Napoli or city, it's applicable to most teams some adapt some don't and the teams that don't end up on the loosing side or don't win anything significant. Last season everyone made fun of city cos they dint have a plan B now because its Napoli who everyone seems to be head over heels in the recent few months its offensive!
    Usually its these teams which play attacking possession based football that suffer. Look at arsenal and Liverpool under Klopp and even us under LVG (boring possession even when we were losing or game was 0-0 or 1-1). Why do you think we (united) struggled so much in CL under Fergie after the group stages. it's because we insisted on playing 4-4-2 while most teams we played had a 3 man mid.