Nations League: Semi-Finals

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Dolf, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. Dec 4, 2018
    #41

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Who would actually 100% get in the England side from the Dutch team?

    Van Djik, absolutely. Maybe that young cm you have. Otherwise who else? You've got plenty of young talents but very few top level proven players.

    Depay I guess you can make an argument for .. but his best form is at striker and not in a million years does he start ahead of Kane. Sterling is also much better and TBH I'd prefer Sancho too.

    England also has proper star power in Kane/Sterling, VVD is class but a CB so it's a little different. England just have far more players at the top level clubs.

    The cohesion argument I don't think is too applicable these days, there's a very decent amount of cohesion around the current England side. They're also World Cup semi finalists (Dutch couldn't qualify) so right now I think it's pretty clear they have the edge and will be favourites. I know the Dutch have improved big time recently but I expect an England win.
  2. Dec 4, 2018
    #42

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    Not to mention their best player up front in Depay. Oh what could have been. Never should have sold him. He should have been loaned out. One thing though that had me scratching my head with the Dutch team, and that's Babel. Is he really the best option they have? I didn't even know he was still playing and had to google to find out if that was the same guy who used to play for Liverpool years ago
  3. Dec 4, 2018
    #43

    JeffBoomTetris Full Member

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    Revisionism at its finest. Depay was given loads of chances here and he was pretty horrendous at taking them. It was the right decision to sell him
  4. Dec 4, 2018
    #44

    Just shoot me New Member

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    I hope we make this, close game. The Dutch and the Portugese in a finale would be worth watching too. Very passionate teams against each other and always an intense battle between them.
  5. Dec 4, 2018
    #45

    Sjaakmeoff New Member

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    Cillessen, De Ligt, VVD, De Jong and maybe Memphis and Dumfries.

    But i guess @RuudRuud has a point when he's talking about the midfield. Apart from De Jong England has better individual players. But the combination De Jong (We all know his qualities), De Roon (gapfiller, stopper) and Wijnaldum (marathonman) works really well.
  6. Dec 4, 2018
    #46

    RuudRuud New Member

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    The same could be sad about English players not qualifying for the Dutch team. We play different styles. For example we would always play de Ligt since he's insane defensively + great technique, passing. Same goes for Blind LB. Blind would never be selected in the English squad, however his passing is great for our style of play.

    In Holland when you start to play football as a little kid, your learn how to play 4-3-3. It's ingrained into our system since youth. So just take a quick look at our midfield and you can see it has insane cohesion. De Jong (classic playmaker, nr 10), De Roon (nr 6, defensive midfielder), Wijnaldum (8, box to box). Our offense has 2 fast wingers and a strong ballholder with Depay. It's almost perfect for the system we play and know so well. You have better players but we are confident in our players and our style of playing.

    I think England has good cohesion as we've seen in the World Cup, I just think ours is better. England has made it to semi-finals, however we've beaten the formers World Champion (France) and put Germany in a state of total panic. So I think we're doing fine on that part.

    So I will say it again, I think it's a 50/50, no clear favourite on either side.
  7. Dec 4, 2018
    #47

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    Not at all. In fact, when he was sold I said the same thing. We saw glimpses of how good he could be and you don't just give up on a young player that quickly. You don't buy a player for 25m one year and then sell him the next year for 16m. He was 21 when we bought him and 22 when we sold him. We never should have sold him or Zaha. Sure, they weren't ready to be United first team players yet but it was plain for anyone to see that there is talent there. They should have been loaned out...
  8. Dec 4, 2018
    #48

    Judas Open to offers

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    Depay and Zaha rubbed too many people up the wrong way, sometimes you just have to let players go, you can't wait forever for young players to come good, especially the position we were in. I'm sure both would have been given more time under Fergie, but it was a simpler time.
  9. Dec 4, 2018
    #49

    Gate99 Full Member

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    It will be an interesting game. The Dutch have the game play and some great rising talents, the English overall the better players who all play in the PL (some of the Dutch players didn't make it there...). Then there's also motivation, I can imagine extra motivation for some Dutch players who want to earn a transfer to the PL, and then it's also in June were some of the English just want to be on a beach. Could be a turgid game where Southgate just tries to destroy the likes of De Jong and use the pace in attack - but they are tired. Could be that one team really manages to punish the other (the Dutch are doing well right now but is still spankable in the odd game).
  10. Dec 4, 2018
    #50

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    There will be a great atmosphere for this, lots of nostalgia from Euro 2004 and we geniunely have a decent chance of winning t.

    Hopefully it doesn't end the same way, England and Netherlands would probably be favourites in a final but we always seem to find a way against those two. When we played the Euros final, 90% of the stadium was full of french people so hopefully we have a similar advantage here.
  11. Dec 4, 2018
    #51

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    Home advantage and Ronaldo is massive. Portugal don't have too great depth in the squad but I think on home turf they'd be favourites in any final.
  12. Dec 4, 2018
    #52

    Sonny1972 Full Member

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    You are very similar to England, just a year or 2 younger in development.????
    Seriously you think Holland will be still shit 2 years from now ??
  13. Dec 4, 2018
    #53

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

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    England are shit?

    I don't think either are shit right now. I think they are both good young teams, with the potential to be great teams.
  14. Dec 5, 2018
    #54

    Rolandofgilead Inserts strawberry yoghurt rectally Scout

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    Did you not watch the group games? Literally every team took it more seriously. I saw more interest from the players than I have seen in decades
  15. Dec 5, 2018
    #55

    Adedotun New Member

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    England should be able to win the nation's league. Portugal are not strong enough without Crisitiano Ronaldo.
  16. Dec 5, 2018
    #56

    JeffBoomTetris Full Member

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    Whatever talent there was, was miniscule. He was definitely not United quality. He isn't now. And he won't be. He stunk the place up. He's found his level.
  17. Dec 5, 2018
    #57

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    There's no way I'd have fecking Cillessen anywhere near the England team. Pickford isn't great but at least he plays.

    De Ligt/VVD are good shouts .. maybe De Jong but again I'm cautious of putting too many players in who play in the Eredivisie. The idea that Dumfries would be anywhere near starting for England is laughable, we have the starting right back for Manchester City. Depay is best at striker but is nowhere near Kane or Sterling, and isn't as good as Sancho out wide.

    I think at best 3 Dutch players could make a combined XI. And England have two properly top class attacking players in Kane & Sterling which the Dutch side just cannot match, and overall way more players with experience of playing in a top league for top sides. Should be comfortable favourites.
  18. Dec 5, 2018
    #58

    Sonny1972 Full Member

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    Seriously mate ?? You seen the WC ??
  19. Dec 5, 2018
    #59

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Yeah, you mean the competition England reached a semi final in whereas the Dutch couldn't even qualify?

    I also think this England side has improved since the WC. Emergence of a few good players like Sancho, more time under Southgate who has settled on a new (superior, imo) formation. I was seriously impressed by the games against Spain and Croatia.

    Equally the Dutch have played really well recently, but I don't see how it's a 50/50 on paper. England clearly have the better team, doesn't always work out that way in football but they should be confident.
  20. Dec 6, 2018
    #60

    SadlerMUFC Full Member

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    He is playing better than most of the players on our team, and there is a lot more talent there than you are giving him credit for. Did you watch the France vs Holland game? Depay was the best player on the field by far. The problem when he was here was we played too slow with way too much sideways and backwards passing. Like I said, he should have went out on loan (along with Zaha)...feel free to disagree
  21. Dec 6, 2018
    #61

    haram Full Member

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    Would he not come back for the final games?
  22. Dec 6, 2018
    #62

    Peyroteo Professional Ronaldo PR Guy

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    Ronaldo will play, we're good enough to win even if he didn't though
  23. Dec 6, 2018
    #63

    Sonny1972 Full Member

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    No i mean the competition where England lost 3x out of 7 !!!
  24. Dec 6, 2018
    #64

    JeffBoomTetris Full Member

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    He wouldn't look as talented if he were to come to this disjointed midtable United side where forwards need to be spoon fed with chances through crosses. He's playing well but we should always strive to obtain better quality befitting that of a United side of old
  25. Dec 6, 2018
    #65

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    And reached a semi-final. You realise how knockout competitions work, right?

    They lost a dead rubber against Belgium (the 2nd best team in the competition) with their 2nd string, a third placed match against the same team .. and took the finalists to extra time. All while the Dutch side sat at home watching it on television.

    England weren't special at the WC, but using their performances as a stick to beat them with whilst bigging up the Dutch is hilarious.
  26. Dec 6, 2018
    #66

    Sjaakmeoff New Member

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    Let's pick this conversation up again after the game.
  27. Dec 6, 2018
    #67

    SquishyMcSquish Full Member

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    Even if the Dutch win it won't change the fact that England have better players and a better team on paper. Depay isn't suddenly gunna become better than Kane, Babel better than Sterling or Dumfries better than Walker.

    You beat France 2-0 not long ago, France still have way better players than you do and would be clear favourites in any future game.