Need new tactics on goalkeeper distribution

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by John Blund, Jan 14, 2019 at 08:24.

  1. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:24
    #1

    John Blund Full Member

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    DDG has a reaction which is world class. He's also good with the ball in his feet, yet his distribution stats is almost woeful. Against Spurs he only hit 11 out of 33 passes. Lloris had 21/25.
    Against Newcastle he had 16/23, Dubravka (Newcastle goalie) 14/26.
    Bournemouth - DDG: 13/21, Begovic 12/19
    Huddlesfield - DDG: 18/29, Lössl 9/22
    Liverpool - DDG 10/30, Alisson 18/26

    Firing it up the field if there's no chance if a counter-attack, we're pretty much hoping for a coin-toss. I don't believe DDGs passing/crossing ability is that bad, it's just our tactics on how we build up that's more like Watford and West Ham than other top teams.
    Chelsea against Newcastle - Kepa had 20/21 (no long balls).
    L'pool against Brighton - Alisson had 19/25
    City - L'pool: Ederson 31/38, Alisson 44/55

    We need to stop giving the ball away 50 % of the times DDG have it. He's too good for that shit, and we're too good to play that bottom-half-tactic.
  2. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:25
    #2

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Agreed - we are a nightmare at playing it out from the back.
  3. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:31
    #3

    Revaulx Full Member

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    He wasn’t always like this though. He only started hoofing it under Jose, and it’s disappointing that Ole hasn’t stopped him yet.

    No doubt there will be a chorus of “well our defenders are shit and are hopeless on the ball”. I’m not convinced that has a lot to do with it; I’d like to actually see them being hopeless on the ball before making my mind up.
  4. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:32
    #4

    NK86 Full Member

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    That's because the defenders and midfield dontd make themselves available for a simple ball out under pressure. You can see the difference in how City or Pool or even Spurs play. The defenders don't panic and know how to position themselves after a back pass to receive the ball fro the keeper. Ours just pass it back to DDG and go to sleep. We really need a commanding CB who can also play out the back. And need a replacement for Matic, whose legs seem to have gone this season.
  5. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:34
    #5

    BlackBen New Member

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    Agreed. I feel this is one area Big Dave needs to improve in. His kicking is so poor this season and I was frustrated with him yesterday in that regards. I hope the coaches help him iron out that weakness and we would have a near perfect goalkeeper on our hands. Love me some Big Dave
  6. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:35
    #6

    Raees Legal Guardian of the Football forums

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    Tbh I’ve seen more willingness from our CBs to get into good positions for De Gea to pass out and he still hoofs it and doesn’t even hoof it very well.

    Great keeper but shocking distribution. Needs to pull his finger out because we will end up losing control of games if they realise we will never pass out effectively under pressure.
  7. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:37
    #7

    bond19821982 Full Member

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    I don't think Ole believes this playing out from back. Just hitting straight to the strikers or midfielders seems to be the case. I also don't think its due to defenders inability. If that was the case, we would have atleast made a try and Lindeloff and Jones is not bad in taking the ball.
  8. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:38
    #8

    haram Full Member

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    Yeah, I do think his distrubition is a bit iffy.
  9. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:41
    #9

    Greck Full Member

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    We failed him. The DeGea that came to us was a very promising kicker. How we turned him into this is embarrassing. Iirc Was still decent with LVG as well
  10. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:44
    #10

    winteriscoming New Member

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    With Southgate's name now being thrown into the ring, it would be safe to assume that United's hierarchy, (whoever that may be), are advocating, 'Let's play out from the back'.

    So, you need footballing centre halves.
    Lindelof is fine, you need another two. With the blinding pace United have up front, the trick will be enticing the opposition to press.

    Oh, get ready for some hairy moments at the back, where every fibre in your body is screaming 'F..king clear it'!
  11. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:48
    #11

    Chairman Woodie Full Member

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    De Gea's distribution was frustrating because it gave Spurs possession almost every time. Good distribution or some keep ball would have eased the pressure on De Gea and the defense in the second half.
  12. Jan 14, 2019 at 08:57
    #12

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member

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    As a few have said in this thread I don't think De Gea is intrinsically awful with the ball at his feet, he's been coached to go long regardless of the state of play and that will take time to undo. The last thing we want is for him to suddenly start playing it when he doesn't feel comfortable doing so and our defenders aren't used to receiving the ball on the turn/half-turn. As a collective we should be working on rethinking our entire playbook for when defenders/GKs are in possession but I don't think we should necessarily start doing it in matches straight away.
  13. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:02
    #13

    baskinginthesun Full Member

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    Curious what his stats were when we had Zlatan and Fellaini playing consistently. He's usually pretty accurate, from what I know but, maybe with the shift in the type of forward he's aiming for now, his accuracy has dropped.
  14. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:05
    #14

    Nick7 Full Member

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    His kicking in the first few games under Ole was great and a huge improvement. Dunno what happened yesterday.
  15. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:08
    #15

    Grylte "nothing wrong with some friendly incest, bro"

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    I don't watch too many matches in the Norwegian league, but i'm pretty sure Molde played out from the back.
    I'm also sure Ole isn't a big fan of hoofing it either.
    DDG needs players to play it to, if he is to play it short. Maybe Ole hasn't done much about it yet because he wanted to prioritize the general play first, he must have noticed this aswell.
    I think DDG has good technique, that's how i generalize all Spanish players and gks :lol:
  16. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:11
    #16

    Eddy_JukeZ Full Member

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    We have to improve as a team in playing out from the back.

    We did it well vs the league minnows under Ole. Next step is to do it well vs the big boys in the league.
  17. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:12
    #17

    stevoc Full Member

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    And Solskjær has won it!
    The last few years under Van Gaal and definitely Mourinho have did a number on his distribution. He used to be better but instructions to hit it long to Fellaini or Lukaku the last 3-4 years have probably made it 2nd nature to him to pump it up the pitch.
  18. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:15
    #18

    SiRed Full Member

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    For the majority of the second half we were defending so deep, like 30 yards out with only one player anywhere near the half way line. He had no option but to go long as we were as deep as we were, inviting Spurs onto us.
    in the first half i thought his passing was ok - doesnt help when Phil Jones passes back to him every time he has the ball.
  19. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:23
    #19

    11101 Full Member

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    He used to have pinpoint accuracy on his long range kicking. With a proper target man i think he will improve, at the moment he's trying those half power kicks into midfield which are harder to get right.
  20. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:27
    #20

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    I'm hoping we'll revert back to our first 4 games under Ole tactic where we played from the back and DeGea wasn't hoofing the ball at every chance.

    Tell last 2 games have been dire distribution wise from DeGea, too much hoofing.

    I'm hoping the hoofing was just a one off or just a rare tactical move by Ole due to totenham quality and pressing and we aren't there yet building from the back to risk it against Totenham. And the Reading game I want to put it down to having made 9 changes with players not having played together at all.

    Hopefully next game we're back building from the back again.
  21. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:29
    #21

    abdo99 Full Member

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    It's not good enough. The distribution from DDG (as great a keeper he is) is very bad and the back four especially centre backs seem to panic on the ball too much. The whole defensive unit needs to get better at passing. It's what separates us from top teams like City and Liverpool.
  22. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:30
    #22

    AgentP Full Member

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    We just need to work on his kicking technique. I feel he kicks them too flat which makes it easier for the opposition player to win the ball. We also lack presence up the field to win those headers.

    I'm sure DDG can learn to play the ball out the back if we work on it as a team.
  23. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:33
    #23

    worldinmotion66 Full Member

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    He was obviously instructed to go long against Spurs - we were trying to exploit the space behind their full backs, if you play out from the back that gives them time to get back into position! We should do better against lesser teams but I think that'll come in time with a better defender and a more mobile defensive midfielder.
  24. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:34
    #24

    Kaos Full Member

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    He just needs time to undo Mourinho’s hoofball vodoo and a consistent (and solid) back 4 to communicate with.
  25. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:37
    #25

    Ish Lights on for Luke

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    Seemed to have improved under Ole, but yesterday wasn't to great - maybe because Spurs' pressing tactics are up there with the best in the league? But yeah, he can improve there a bit, but also the entire team needs to improve there.

    Players needing to move into space to provide options, fullbacks shifting out wide hugging the touchline, etc. Another aspect/challenge is that we don't have the most physically complete forwards who will compete for balls in the air either.

    Hopefully as we become more and more accustomed to trying to hold on to the ball, it'd get better.
  26. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:43
    #26

    André Dominguez Full Member

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    There are very very few goalkeepers in the world who actually excel on this. We can't ask De Gea to risk using a weak spot in a "real match".

    The best we can do is train him more his footwork and hope for the best. I've been a coach at lower levels and youth systems, and unfortunatelly, some things cannot be achieved, even if you put the player training hours per day.
  27. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:44
    #27

    red thru&thru Full Member

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    Yea, I can't ever remeber myself talking about DDG's distribution before. But I just thought other keepers had come into the league who were a step above in distributing with their feet, is why I now thought DDG is really poor.

    But yes, he really needs to step it up. A lot of our attacks now break down because of this. I've seen no one better than Ederson.
  28. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:45
    #28

    Wheato New Member

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    I agree with some of the posts above. De Gea's distribution was far better a few seasons ago. I'm sure there was a Youtube video displaying his passing ability. 2 years of Mourinho has drilled this out of him. I do think that OGS will work on this as his Molde teams were always very good at playing it out from the back. Yes, you would have a heart attack if he rolled the ball out to Phil Jones, and also the full-backs are so far forward at the moment, there isn't much on for him to play it out to, so we need Matic and Herrera to come for it sometimes. It was a fast and furious game yesterday, and David was guilty a few times of just trying to get rid of the ball. Unfortunately, when you are up against a good side, the ball just comes straight back at you.
  29. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:46
    #29

    Bojan11 Full Member

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    Kicks the ball too much out of play. Annoying at times as it just gives opponent to put more pressure on us.
  30. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:57
    #30

    Morpheus 7 Full Member

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    He was incredible yesterday, should be our captain in my opinion. His kick outs were awful yesterday. That backline is a problem, lindelof and maybe Shaw are the only ones that can play it out from the back. We really need to work on this in training, ball retention is so important, especially away. I think we need to use the width and spread it wide better. Fellaini was good at winning challenges from kick outs, then again that's all he's good at.

    A good backline give options for the keeper, when teams press it makes it difficult but it's a big area for improvement. I wouldn't put all this down to De Gea, it's an issue with the communication of him and the players. Needs to improve going forward. I think with an updated backline in the summer things will be smoother, whoever is in charge.
  31. Jan 14, 2019 at 09:59
    #31

    Santoryo ripping the reward

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    How would Van Gaal football do a number on his distribution when the man was a possession freak hell bent on keeping possession.
  32. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:04
    #32

    LoneStar Full Member

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    Think its a mixture of both him hoofing it and also the players in front of him. You have to make yourself available for the pass if you want the keeper to play from the back.

    A new set of defenders + some change in the way we play from the back (I.e. the system) should help immensely in this regard.
  33. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:04
    #33

    Krits Full Member

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    The thing is. I don’t remember him being bad at distribution during the Fergie days. I actually remember it being one of his strengths. Who remembers that standard ping out to Valencia on the wing . It was an awfully common site to see. Maybe it’s got to do more with outfield players having less space. Not sure what it is. Also Lukaku is pretty useless at heading and moving to make himself available.
  34. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:06
    #34

    The Boy Full Member

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    I wasn't sure about the claims here that under Mou DDG's distribution has suddenly got worse, but then looking back through articles and found this from EPL index in 2015 comparing DDG, Lloris and Courtois.

    "The best of the three when it comes to distribution is David de Gea whose distribution accuracy is a very impressive 68%. This won’t surprise Manchester United fans as they have seen how good the Spaniard is at finding team-mates. This has been highlighted further this season as Van Gaal demands his players to try and pass out from the back, making De Gea’s distribution key. Hugo Lloris follows in second with 66%, while Courtois has the worst distribution accuracy with 59%."


    And then there's this from 2018

    [​IMG]
  35. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:07
    #35

    Matt007a Full Member

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    Would you play it short with the likes of Jones or Smalling in front of you? I wouldn't trust their touch personally. I think he's been told to go long for that reason for the last few years. It'll take a little while to go back to playing it short. Lindelof is decent on the ball, but we still need another CB who is actually capable of playing football.
  36. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:10
    #36

    MadDogg Full Member

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    It was noticeable that in Ole's first game in charge we had the centre backs coming deep on goalkicks and making themselves available to receive it. That stopped after the first match, but De Gea's distribution did continue to be a bit better for the next couple of games, before starting to fall away again to his norm. Then against Spurs it was quite poor.
  37. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:11
    #37

    stevoc Full Member

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    And Solskjær has won it!
    It was a feature of Van Gaal's tactics for DeGea to go long to Fellaini to beat the opposition press. This became even more prominent under Mourinho.
  38. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:11
    #38

    Tom Van Persie No relation

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    De Gea has shown in the past that he's very comfortable with the ball at his feet he's just hit and miss with his kicking at the moment. I thought he was fine playing out from the back under LvG so it's probably just a part of his game that's got worse since he wasn't asked to do it much under Mourinho. I'm sure he'll be working on it and he'll be the Pirlo of goalkeepers in a few weeks. It's De Gea we're talking about here.
  39. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:14
    #39

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

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    He's inconsistent. He played a few great drilled long balls yesterday, but also spooned a good few out into touch. He also played 2 really good clearances in the 2nd half which Lukaku just stood still and watched it go beyond him. If he'd have played those two in the first half, they would have created attacks for one of the front 3. He's got the capability, I don't believe the good balls out are a fluke, but he needs to be doing it more regularly.

    Under van Gaal, he used to be particularly good at finding his man out on the wide left, often Fellaini or Young. It was clear that Mourinho's approach is safety-first at all costs, so I guess if it's drilled out of you, getting some consistency back isn't going to be like turning on a light switch, but there seems to have been noticeable improvement since OGS took over, even including yesterday.
  40. Jan 14, 2019 at 10:18
    #40

    Red00012 New Member

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    4 times DDG kicked the ball out of play yesterday.