NHS winter 'crisis'

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Damien, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Jan 3, 2018
    #81

    Silva Full Member

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    What would help is proper funding. This is like trying to put out a forest fire with a watering can.
  2. Jan 3, 2018
    #82

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    Does it compared to the cost of a payment system, record keeping, dispute resolution and recovery system for missed appointments?
  3. Jan 3, 2018
    #83

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    Re: the winter crisis

    The experience of Australia last winter already had the NHS on alert to some extent, and there were additional concerns surrouding the flu vaccine for a second year in a row IIRC.

    If the pharmaceuticals firms could find a halfway effective version for the Norovirus, the situation would improve
  4. Jan 3, 2018
    #84

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Cost of lives is more important.
  5. Jan 3, 2018
    #85

    buckooo1978 Full Member

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    I've a mate who works for Ambulance Service - he had to deal with some seriously awful reports - waiting times for ambulances were up to 6 hours resulting in deaths

    what kind of society do we live in
  6. Jan 3, 2018
    #86

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    People often don't have money
  7. Jan 3, 2018
    #87

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    Come on, it was an obvious penalty.
  8. Jan 3, 2018
    #88

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    It is, imagine putting someone off visiting the Dr because they have a fine hanging over their heads from a missed appointment they can't afford to pay, and them dieing in their home
  9. Jan 3, 2018
    #89

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Imagine thinking a grown ass adult cant call or text a clinic. Its gone up to£20 now Mozza for being a cnut
  10. Jan 3, 2018
    #90

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    That's a lot of money for the 16 million adults with less than £100 in savings
  11. Jan 3, 2018
    #91

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Mozza wants people to wait longer to see a doctor for the sake of a text or phone call. Got it!
  12. Jan 3, 2018
    #92

    Silva Full Member

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    You need to tone it down a little bit. He's not stealing your kidney, he's pointing out the logical flaws in your argument.
  13. Jan 3, 2018
    #93

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    It's a minor problem in the grand scheme of the NHS. I'm not happy that people miss appointments, it's rude, but to start fining people will be a waste of time and money.
  14. Jan 3, 2018
    #94

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    The logical flaw in that people cant text or make calls? Yeah thats some fecking argument Silva. You reading this stuff @golden_blunder
  15. Jan 3, 2018
    #95

    Silva Full Member

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    No, that it impacts the poorest and least likely to visit a doctor in the first place. It's an attack on the lower classes, creating an NHS where those with money get even better treatment than they already do.
  16. Jan 3, 2018
    #96

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Is it only lower classes that see a doctor then Silva?
  17. Jan 3, 2018
    #97

    Silva Full Member

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    You're purposefully missing the point now.
  18. Jan 3, 2018
    #98

    Stanley Road I.C.F. Member

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  19. Jan 3, 2018
    #99

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    No I am not, I am saying there are people who arent on the poverty line who dont cancel appointments and abuse the system. You and Mozzas argument rests entirely on a fraction of people who may be too sick to either call or text or ask someone to call or text or even answer the courtesy call given to them before said appointment. You dont want anyone to take responsibility. Golden Wonder mentioned a relative with memory issues who still made the effort to handle their appointments. This cost issue is a side track and is entirely avoidable for a one minute phonecall or a text. Not buying your crap.
  20. Jan 3, 2018

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    What? That's a huge reach
  21. Jan 3, 2018

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    If you go back you notice he started with just not thinking anyone should be expected to make a call to cancel an appointment they can't make. He only jumped to the poor people arguement after the flaws in his arguement were pointed out. He is trying to score points by moving the goalposts.
  22. Jan 3, 2018

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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    This is the row that never ends
    Yes, it goes on and on, my friends...
  23. Jan 3, 2018

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    Golden wonder didn't answer my follow up questions
  24. Jan 3, 2018

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Thats up to him.
  25. Jan 3, 2018

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    Let's cut through all this nonsense of fines and sending in some heavies over a 10-20 quid.

    Charge for the appointments from outset (albeit fairly nodest), and those who fall under a certain threshold can have the sum refunded when they show up.


    But what about the poor person who could have had a sooner aappointment but didn't?
  26. Jan 3, 2018

    Mozza It’s Carrick you know

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    What if they don't have the money to book an appointment?
  27. Jan 3, 2018

    Silva Full Member

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  28. Jan 3, 2018

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    They are not important
  29. Jan 3, 2018

    africanspur Full Member

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    It is genuinely abysmal. Truly scary stuff, I cannot believe that the 5th or 6th richest country in the world has a healthcare system that currently looks like this.

    Hospitals which are full at the beginning of night shifts. Patients in A&E over 24 hours. Patients waiting over 4 hours on the back of an ambulance (with sepsis, chest pain etc etc). Patients waiting at home for ambulances for 6-7 hours, the same ambulances which are queuing up 10+ at the back of A&Es, waiting to be able to offload. Yesterday, I saw a patient being seen in the majors who 100% should have been in resuscitation. They simply could not be seen there cos every single bed was full the entire night.

    Its a genuine shambles. A&E isn't safe. The hospital at large isn't safe. Its a shambles.

    We've been warning about this stuff for ages. Its a perfect storm. Ageing population, poor health education, chronic underfunding, a failing primary care sector and a terrible social care sector on top of more and more gaps in rotas for both doctors and nurses as the NHS becomes a less and less attractive place to work just means that it all goes wrong.

    Bloody hell, how have we allowed this to happen?
  30. Jan 3, 2018

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

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  31. Jan 3, 2018

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Who was moving the goal posts? What is wrong with trying to get people to take responsibility in order to keep something great free and to help it work better. In this day and age not making a call or answering a call or sending a fecking text isnt beyond anyone's capability.
  32. Jan 3, 2018

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    Mozza was.

    Remember I have been making the same arguement you have in this thread
  33. Jan 3, 2018

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    What of they just made a call before they missed the first appointment?
  34. Jan 3, 2018

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Sorry, Im just annoyed at the absurdity of people not being able to cancel appointments. feck sake I can talk to a lump of plastic made by amazon now that could do it for me., I dont even have to lift my phone these days.
  35. Jan 4, 2018

    Silva Full Member

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    Missed appointments cost around 0.8% (give or take 0.1) of the NHS budget. Which is obviously a lot of money, but trying to save/recuperate that money is futile and does nothing to address the biggest issues pointed out in this thread. Measures that address this should be like the one I posted a few minutes ago - ones that don't punish people financially, rather encouraging higher attendance rates.
  36. Jan 4, 2018

    Nick 0208 Ldn News 24

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    We're not talking about life-threatening situations here, or at least that is my understanding.

    At worst i know about my St Thomas' check-ups a couple of months in advance, sometimes it is just under s yeer. If a person can't find £5-10 over such a span of time then seeing the ophthalmologist is the least of their problems, and far from the main societal issue. The truly destitute could be given financial relief; although if they nonetheless take the piss ouf ot the system, i see no reason why shouldn't be sent to the back of the line.
  37. Jan 4, 2018

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Correct we arent talking about life threatening. We are talking about people with colds or flus who make an appointment, get one for 7 to 10 days later then feel better and cant be arsed calling/texting/waking in to cancel.
  38. Jan 4, 2018

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Again Silva, a point you seem to like to miss, its about TIME and money and about people who have to wait longer for the sake of a phone call.
  39. Jan 4, 2018

    Silva Full Member

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    that's what happens when you miss an appointment
  40. Jan 4, 2018

    JustAFan The Adebayo Akinfenwa of football photoshoppers

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    It's not shock when you start working the supply side to meet only low end demand. In the US we have serious issues in many places where any sort of spike in people needing care is going to over-tax the system. Now granted you can't staff to the worst case scenarios but you have to do better. The yearly flu season should not be a huge tax on the health system.